DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[Love Charger]

Sabse phele ye jo QR banane wale IA ke log h unhe dhoondho, BC har baar kisi na kisi wajah se tender cancel ho jaata, kabhi unhe khud hi nhi pta kya chahte ye log, kabhi unrealistic requirement aur jab kabhi sab sahi chal rha hota h saale ye log phir Naya tender nikal dete h.

Maa ki aankh ab bhot ho gya, sab k haath m AK hi de do, inse na ho paayega nai bandook lena. Optics toh inhe space tech lagti h.

Aur arde walon ne ek mciws rifle bana bhu di , hehe

 

[Aditya Ballal]

Now you could clearly see where the problem lies with our industry. We don't learn from past failures and only work for short term profit.

The update you provided must be recent because when I got in touch with him Pre-Chinese virus time, he steered off clearly from the issue. In INSAS saga we have faced issue with cracked magazine and butt. So investing on furniture along with the base of the gun, i.e barrel and trigger mechanism is equally important.

Now they could pass off all the trials, but they would not get significant order unless and until they get their parts and accessories certified. Changing those later on would mean another round of trials. They have to atleast give a road map of indigenization for all those components. They have already invested in the most costliest part, so investing or drawing on roadmaps for less expensive parts is more logical then waiting for SIGNIFICANT order. On second thought, it also means that the recent upgrade kit for AK too is imported by them.

Even here for the AK Mod, the magazine, foregrip, pistol grip, optic and the butt portion of the stock (connector portion of the stock is their own) is imported. They actually tried contacting the local manufacturing partner of the imported magazine they used from CAA Industries, which is Evitar Systems but did not get any response from them.
The handguard, top cover with proprietary locking mechanism, muzzle brake, and the connection portion of the stock with folding mechanism is their own .

 

[SKC]

Gentlemen, I have come to the conclusion that we need a " mota ispat wala rifle "
And only venerable ofb can make it .
Indian bullets are very powerful, we should respect the Indian bullet and change the rifle and ask the ever venerable ofb to mass produce R2 rifle.

Probably needs Bangaur Cement too! Sasta nahi Sabse achcha!

 

[Chinmoy]

The Bharat Forge/Kalyani MGS is based on their own truck. OFB and BEMLs solution was mounted on the BEML Tatra truck.
View attachment 153734
Ome thing I did notice though was that the OFB MGS carries only 18 rounds of 155mm ammunition on the 8x8 truck whilst other competitors from this category carry about 30-36 like the Chinese SH-15, Israeli Elbit ATMOS 2000 and French Nexter CAESAR.

ATMOS and CAESAR carries 18 and 16 rounds respectively. As for SH-15, it carries 60 rounds as per PAKI BLOGS. So yeah, if pau pau ke atam bum exists, so they might be right.

 

[Chinmoy]

Now that's a proper way to give out information. It passed PSQR trials, not GSQR. Now as per new DAP, PSQR would be considered as GSQR, but it also means a lot of change is yet to come in the system.

TATA is making their case stronger unlike tomtoming like BF.

 

[Aditya Ballal]

ATMOS and CAESAR carries 18 and 16 rounds respectively. As for SH-15, it carries 60 rounds as per PAKI BLOGS. So yeah, if pau pau ke atam bum exists, so they might be right.

I’m referring to CAESAR 8X8, not the 6x6 version the French use, since it would be an unfair comparison as the OFB one is based on an 8x8 BEML Truck. Even the ATMOS has a minimum capacity of 18 rounds, which is again for the 6x6 variant.

https://www.nexter-group.fr/sites/default/files/fichiers-catalogue-produit/CAESAR%208X8_2.pdf

For a larger 8x8 truck it’s ammo carrying capacity is one the lower side, if it was based on a 6x6 truck then it’s obviously understandable.

 

[Chinmoy]

the confidentiality my ass, if they so much cared about confidentiality they wont publish the type of radar antinea, fpg unit they build for military psu more importantly the product they build for drdo, think with logic if MOD find out that radar production can be out sourced to private entity which is cheaper and more faster results which one MOD choose white elephant DRDO who fkup all projects or private firm only focused on radar and auxiliary equipment production, mark my words AESA production will soon given to atstra ( if drdo it self wont sabotage the project to save their complex ego )

 

[fire starter]

Tile' based Active Electronically Scanned Antenna Array (AESA) system for X-Band Radar Applications under fabrication

It is basically a conformal radar.

 

[Chinmoy]

High level comedy happening

Bound to happen. Was just waiting for this news.

 

[Aditya Ballal]

the confidentiality my ass, if they so much cared about confidentiality they wont publish the type of radar antinea, fpg unit they build for military psu more importantly the product they build for drdo, think with logic if MOD find out that radar production can be out sourced to private entity which is cheaper and more faster results which one MOD choose white elephant DRDO who fkup all projects or private firm only focused on radar and auxiliary equipment production, mark my words AESA production will soon given to atstra ( if drdo it self wont sabotage the project to save their complex ego )

Why tf will DRDO Sabotage this? It is DRDO’s own product they are manufacturing for DRDO to test. Please try to talk sense whilst posting. You are acting as if DRDO is a production agency. Why the hell will they care who is producing their products as long as they get their royalty fee?
It’s one thing if you said a Production Agency like BEL or any such PSU for example would try to scuttle this, but here you go on an illogical rant which makes absolutely no sense.

 

[Chinmoy]

Locally made. Considering OFB antics I won't be surprised if it's the quality of bullets here.

Its a well known fact that OFB rounds use different grain structure then NATO. The pressure generation of OFB made rounds are way higher then contemporaries one.
When the decision was made to induct Sig-716 which uses DI, I made the comment that lets see now what IA say about jamming and cleaning as OFB rounds are high on carbon generation.

So basically it is not because of faulty ammo per se, but the whole theory of where we do invest. The world design a gun around the round and we do just the opposite.

 

[Chinmoy]

Even here for the AK Mod, the magazine, foregrip, pistol grip, optic and the butt portion of the stock (connector portion of the stock is their own) is imported. They actually tried contacting the local manufacturing partner of the imported magazine they used from CAA Industries, which is Evitar Systems but did not get any response from them.
The handguard, top cover with proprietary locking mechanism, muzzle brake, and the connection portion of the stock with folding mechanism is their own .

Now you see where the problem lies as I mentioned. When your product is not even complying with "60% indigenous component value wise" mark, how could you expect significant order?

But we have people here who would only run behind promo videos.

 

[Chinmoy]

I’m referring to CAESAR 8X8, not the 6x6 version the French use, since it would be an unfair comparison as the OFB one is based on an 8x8 BEML Truck. Even the ATMOS has a minimum capacity of 18 rounds, which is again for the 6x6 variant.

https://www.nexter-group.fr/sites/default/files/fichiers-catalogue-produit/CAESAR%208X8_2.pdf

For a larger 8x8 truck it’s ammo carrying capacity is one the lower side, if it was based on a 6x6 truck then it’s obviously understandable.

There is a catch here with NEXTER and ELBIT. As per the official brochure, NEXTER 8*8 carries complete rounds as opposite to OFB. As per the brochure you provided, OFB 155-MGS carries 18 rounds with 18 BMCS, that too of Zone-6. ATMOS too carries a minimum of 18 rounds with projectile, propellant and fuses which again means a complete round like NEXTER.

 

[Aditya Ballal]

Now you see where the problem lies as I mentioned. When your product is not even complying with "60% indigenous component value wise" mark, how could you expect significant order?

But we have people here who would only run behind promo videos.

How much would magazines, pistol grip, buttstock, and foregrip come out to value wise?
Magazine-$20 each(CAA)
Foregrip- $25 each (ATI)
Pistol Grip- $ 29 each (ATI)
Stock(Partial)- $80 each(ATI) But is for the whole package and SSS is only using a partial component of of it, so the price will be probably be lesser, but for arguments sake let’s take the full price.
Total- $154.
Cost of well made aluminium handguards in general are about $400 in the international market, so we’ll have to assume SSSD’s prices are similar as we don’t have price list. And they don’t have the benefit of scaled production like established players like CAA or FAB Defense.
Cost of a well made aluminium top cover is usually about ~$250 in the international markets and estimated based on the reasons given above.
So an approximate and estimated grand total of ~$800, for a mod kit not including an optic and muzzle break, as the contract did not ask for one, but SSSD included it for free.
Now 60% of 800 would be close to $480, so what you’ve said does not really make sense here, these polymer parts cost very little in proportion to the other components in the mod kit.
$800 is slightly lesser than the average price of a full AK mod kit in the international market.
DISCLAIMER: All prices are approximate, especially the SSSD made components as we in india do not have the luxury of getting price lists as we don’t have a proper civil firearm market. These are estimates as milled aluminium products don’t have too many varying costs as very little hand work is done using manpower and mostly done by automated machines.
Another point is, even the FAB Kits will definitely not meet the 60% indigenous criteria as they are fully made in Israel and have no plans on making in India. But, they definitely seem to be getting large scale contracts via emergency purchases and tenders.

 

[Chinmoy]

How much would magazines, pistol grip, buttstock, and foregrip come out to value wise?
Magazine-$20 each(CAA)
Foregrip- $25 each (ATI)
Pistol Grip- $ 29 each (ATI)
Stock(Partial)- $80 each(ATI) But is for the whole package and SSS is only using a partial component of of it, so the price will be probably be lesser, but for arguments sake let’s take the full price.
Total- $154.
Cost of well made aluminium handguards in general are about $400 in the international market, so we’ll have to assume SSSD’s prices are similar as we don’t have price list. And they don’t have the benefit of scaled production like established players like CAA or FAB Defense.
Cost of a well made aluminium top cover is usually about ~$250 in the international markets and estimated based on the reasons given above.
So an approximate and estimated grand total of ~$800, for a mod kit not including an optic and muzzle break, as the contract did not ask for one, but SSSD included it for free.
Now 60% of 800 would be close to $480, so what you’ve said does not really make sense here, these polymer parts cost very little in proportion to the other components in the mod kit.
$800 is slightly lesser than the average price of a full AK mod kit in the international market.
DISCLAIMER: All prices are approximate, especially the SSSD made components as we in india do not have the luxury of getting price lists as we don’t have a proper civil firearm market. These are estimates as milled aluminium products don’t have too many varying costs as very little hand work is done using manpower and mostly done by automated machines.
Another point is, even the FAB Kits will definitely not meet the 60% indigenous criteria as they are fully made in Israel and have no plans on making in India. But, they definitely seem to be getting large scale contracts via emergency purchases and tenders.

And what about the import duty and IGST?

The $150 product becomes $196 even before I receive it for assembly. 60% indigenous component on value is a safe estimate for capital acquisition. For upgrade kits and all, its even high. Sometimes it goes to 90%. So when I've to make a profit on it, I'd require cushion to play. This cushion in turn plays a major role on the order I could expect or get.

 

[Aditya Ballal]

For those AK fanboys we have in DFI, this video is for y’all, watch how the venerable AK struggles in the mud relatively compared to the other firearms. Each and every firearm has its weak and strong points, no weapon is perfect,even the AR family of firearms also may struggle in certain conditions. Stop being irrational and being a blind fanboy.

And for the ones who are whining about AR platforms across DFI, here’s the words of Major Avinash Sir (11 Para SF, retd.) on DFI regarding the M4.

Indian Special Forces

If I am to have a sniper rifle, I would prefer a system based on the Lapua Magnum for it's obvious advantages. Also PKMG is reliable but not modular, also because it's open breech weapon, operators can't carry the weapon loaded. It's a problem in case of a fleeting contact and sitting in the...

defenceforumindia.com

 

[Kuldeepm952]

For those AK fanboys we have in DFI, this video is for y’all, watch how the venerable AK struggles in the mud relatively compared to the other firearms. Each and every firearm has its weak and strong points, no weapon is perfect,even the AR family of firearms also may struggle in certain conditions. Stop being irrational and being a blind fanboy.

And for the ones who are whining about AR platforms across DFI, here’s the words of Major Avinash Sir (11 Para SF, retd.) on DFI regarding the M4.

Indian Special Forces

If I am to have a sniper rifle, I would prefer a system based on the Lapua Magnum for it's obvious advantages. Also PKMG is reliable but not modular, also because it's open breech weapon, operators can't carry the weapon loaded. It's a problem in case of a fleeting contact and sitting in the...

defenceforumindia.com

View attachment 154313

Does it all matters when the guys at helm who make decision seems to be driven by preconceptions rather than comprehensive studies, It seems atleast to me that some of the RFIs are somewhat made to fit certain weapons. At the end of the day the local jawaan will fight with whatever he is given, the onus of poorly equipped infantry lies solely on who buy those equipments and apparently there is thing where unutilized funds are sent back in India.

 

[Love Charger]

This gentleman from BRF has a valid point

 

[Arjun Mk1A]

Till new Assault Rifle will come in some decades. Our old horse will be do the duty for us.

Hail INSAS Supremacy

 

[SKC]

Till new Assault Rifle will come in some decades. Our old horse will be do the duty for us.
View attachment 154329

Hail INSAS Supremacy

Can't we have a good Butt stock for once?
Even in these presentations or models by other, we are still fixated by these out of design line butt stocks.