DRDO Phalcon style AWACS

Enquirer

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Question is can the DRDO radar be fitted to some of the aeroplanes of jet airways many of which are lying idle in airports parking lots around India? This option needs to be explored.

View attachment 35035
Source : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_Airways
Why is this question back on the forum? It is naive beyond humor!

Firstly, DRDO cannot mount radars on any odd airplane. The aircraft manufacturer in required to redesign the aircraft for the mount!
Secondly, what is the relevance of Jet aircraft availability that's driving this itch? It's not like DRDO doesn't have access to aircraft (used or new) worldwide; and it's not like Jet airways cannot dispose off the aircraft profitably in the aviation market!!!

Net-net DRDO AWACS program has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO GAIN from Jet airways business situation!!!
 

Prashant12

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India in advanced negotiations for two A330 aircraft for indigenous AEW&C programme

India's government-run Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) is in advanced negotiations with Airbus Defence and Space to procure two A330 military transport aircraft for fitment with indigenously designed airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) systems that will enable for longer-range surveillance and target detection.

Industry sources told Jane's on 28 May that price negotiations to acquire the two platforms for the Indian Air Force (IAF) are expected to be concluded "imminently", with a contract set to follow by the end of the year.

According to the sources, Airbus would be required to deliver the A330s with structural modifications, power and endurance adaptations as well as assorted provisions to support the AEW&C systems designed by the DRDO's Centre for Airborne Systems (CABS).

https://www.janes.com/article/88799...-a330-aircraft-for-indigenous-aew-c-programme
 

sorcerer

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India in advanced negotiations for two A330 aircraft for indigenous AEW&C programme

India's government-run Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) is in advanced negotiations with Airbus Defence and Space to procure two A330 military transport aircraft for fitment with indigenously designed airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) systems that will enable for longer-range surveillance and target detection.

Industry sources told Jane's on 28 May that price negotiations to acquire the two platforms for the Indian Air Force (IAF) are expected to be concluded "imminently", with a contract set to follow by the end of the year.

According to the sources, Airbus would be required to deliver the A330s with structural modifications, power and endurance adaptations as well as assorted provisions to support the AEW&C systems designed by the DRDO's Centre for Airborne Systems (CABS).

https://www.janes.com/article/88799...-a330-aircraft-for-indigenous-aew-c-programme
How many are we getting AWACS.
THeres another parallel negotiation for 2 Russian platforms too one month back.
 

patriots

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How many are we getting AWACS.
THeres another parallel negotiation for 2 Russian platforms too one month back.
Russian jets will have a isarel platform on it....
And air bus will have indian platform on it,drdo will also covert them for refueling (earlier reports said)
 

sorcerer

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Russian jets will have a isarel platform on it....
And air bus will have indian platform on it,drdo will also covert them for refueling (earlier reports said)
correeectttttttttttttttttttttt
 

Wisemarko

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Embraer, IAI Elta Partner on Praetor AEW Business Jet

ShowNews
Tony Osborne
Jun 18, 2019


It is difficult to understand when whole world is moving towards 2 engine, small-medium platforms for AWACS roles, why Indians continue their efforts on large aircraft such as A330 and IL-76.

Israeli Aerospace Industries (IAI) has partnered with Embraer to offer a low-cost Airborne Early Warning (AEW) radar platform.

The two companies will develop the P600 AEW platform by mounting the IAI Elta’s ELM-2096 active electronically scanned array surveillance radar in a ski-box-like pod mounted atop the fuselage of Embraer’s new Praetor 600 business jet.

The configuration is the first special mission role for the new platform which only received its FAA and European Aviation Safety Agency certification last month [May].

“This aircraft is the best in breed in terms of performance and cost effectiveness,” explained Yoav Tourgeman, the president of IAI Elta said following the signing of a strategic cooperation agreement at the Paris Air Show.

The ELM-2096 uses gallium nitride semiconductor transmit and receive modules and can provide a 240-deg. field of view for airborne and maritime surveillance.

Three system operators are supported by artificial intelligence and machine learning built into the command and control system that helps to reduce operator workload.

Previous generations of such radars would have required larger numbers of operators, notes Tourgeman, a situation that would have demanded the use of a larger, and more expensive platforms.

The cooperation agreement covers a 50:50 workshare with the location of the work done on a case-by-case basis.

Embraer provides the aircraft, ground support, communications and aircraft integration while IAI Elta, will provide the radar, a signals intelligence payload and other onboard systems.

IAI Elta currently has agreements with Airbus for the C295AEW and with Gulfstream on its G550 Conformal AEW (CAEW) platform.

“We believe it is the right sized solution for the market, a state-of the-art aircraft and state-of-the-art radar platform,” said Jackson Schneider, the president and CEO for Embraer’s Defense and Security. “For the customer who wants to solve its surveillance issues, while respecting taxpayer limits, this is the best solution at the right cost,” he added.

“We are enlarging the market… allowing countries who always wanted this kind of application, to have it, Schneider said.

Tourgeman said IAI was also exploring other special mission roles for other Embraer platforms.
 
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Armand2REP

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It is difficult to understand when whole world is moving towards 2 engine, small-medium platforms for AWACS roles, why Indians continue their efforts on large aircraft such as A330 and IL-76.
An A330 can carry a more powerful radar for several times longer than any of those small platforms can. It would take 3 of the Embraers to do the same job as one A330.
 

Aaj ka hero

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An A330 can carry a more powerful radar for several times longer than any of those small platforms can. It would take 3 of the Embraers to do the same job as one A330.
How much hours airbus plane can remain in air?
 

Thrishul

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Is it possible for the IAF to buy civilian versions of the A330 like the ones that are lying around after jet airways went bankrupt and then modify them?
 

Enquirer

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Is it possible for the IAF to buy civilian versions of the A330 like the ones that are lying around after jet airways went bankrupt and then modify them?
Hasn't this myth been dispelled enough number of times?
Jet airways (even if it had A330) is not going to give away its aircraft for free! Why do people constantly keep deluding themselves that any aircraft parked in India is up for grabs!
Jet airways has a huge international market to liquidate its assets! DRDO won't find Jet Airways price for a used A330 any cheaper than a similarly used A330 elsewhere (the pricing is pervasive across international markets).

That said, India intends to used future AWACS as refueler too. As such DRDO will be interested in A330 MRTT
 

Sanglamorre

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Is it possible for the IAF to buy civilian versions of the A330 like the ones that are lying around after jet airways went bankrupt and then modify them?
Why would you want to have old airframes with already God knows how many flight hours on them? It's like buying a ragged workhorse and then then expecting it to win derbys.
 

IndianHawk

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Why would you want to have old airframes with already God knows how many flight hours on them? It's like buying a ragged workhorse and then then expecting it to win derbys.
True we need to take AWACS seriously. Buy new capable planes in dozen and plant DRDO chapati on them. We can't afford gap in our air power. This is an area we can have great lead over China as Chinese AWACS are shitty and completely useless as demonstrated by Pakistan after balakot strike.

Sent from my C103 using Tapatalk
 

Wisemarko

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An A330 can carry a more powerful radar for several times longer than any of those small platforms can. It would take 3 of the Embraers to do the same job as one A330.
Lol really?

Please elaborate- what type of radar that will have “several times” range compared to one on ERJ platform?

What is the range of radar on A330 compared to one on ERJ?

And the claim “3x job” - what job? But first answer “several times range question”.
I am so curious..
 

Enquirer

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Lol really?

Please elaborate- what type of radar that will have “several times” range compared to one on ERJ platform?

What is the range of radar on A330 compared to one on ERJ?

And the claim “3x job” - what job? But first answer “several times range question”.
I am so curious..
Not sure what your beef with A330 is...but the idea is to have a 'radome' on top with 360 degree coverage. ERJ cannot carry the weight of such a large radome...instead Erieye, Netra etc provide only 240 degree coverage!
 

abingdonboy

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Lol really?

Please elaborate- what type of radar that will have “several times” range compared to one on ERJ platform?

What is the range of radar on A330 compared to one on ERJ?

And the claim “3x job” - what job? But first answer “several times range question”.
I am so curious..
You are clearly oblivious to facts on this matter.

Compare the combined output of the engines on a small biz jet and those on a wide body airliner like the 330. And since radar ranger is proportional to power you can infer the consequences.

In fact it was reported some time back that the power generation capability onboard even the 330 would not be enough so Airbus would be working with DRDO to instal an additional engine (I guess an another APU?) solely to power the radar.

Keep pushing the ERJ but it doesn’t have the range, endurance, payload capacity or power generation to deliver what the IAF want some.
 

asianobserve

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You don't need to have a huge airframe to house modern radars for awacs. The bigger the airframe the bigger the engine requirement. And the bigger the engine the more fuel and logistics it needs. Just survey commercial airline companies on operational costs between twin aisle and single aisle airflcrafts.

Anyway, the most advanced awacs right now is E-2D Advanced Hawkeye that can track up to 2,000 targets but it is a compact package.



In fact it's so advanced that the French have no problem buying it in 2026-2028 time frame.

https://www.navyrecognition.com/ind...ure-e-2d-advanced-hawkeyes-for-2026-2028.html
 

uoftotaku

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You are clearly oblivious to facts on this matter.

Compare the combined output of the engines on a small biz jet and those on a wide body airliner like the 330. And since radar ranger is proportional to power you can infer the consequences.

Keep pushing the ERJ but it doesn’t have the range, endurance, payload capacity or power generation to deliver what the IAF want some.
Very good point about the power component. Even the Boeing E-7 platform and the E-767 AWACS operated by the Japanese face huge problems with available electric power due to using only a 2-engine platform vs the older 707 based 4-engine platform. Each engine can support only 2 electric generators and civilian airframes have limited ability to host additional aux generators beyond the built in APU. On a small business jet or regional jet platform this problem is even more pronounced as your mention.

To add to that, the big reason why both DRDO and IAF have shied away from adding additional ERJ-based Netra platforms to the fleet (despite the sunk cost of development) is because Embraer was accused of bribing various officials to get their aircraft selected. Further orders become politically untenable.
 

Enquirer

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Very good point about the power component. Even the Boeing E-7 platform and the E-767 AWACS operated by the Japanese face huge problems with available electric power due to using only a 2-engine platform vs the older 707 based 4-engine platform. Each engine can support only 2 electric generators and civilian airframes have limited ability to host additional aux generators beyond the built in APU. On a small business jet or regional jet platform this problem is even more pronounced as your mention.

To add to that, the big reason why both DRDO and IAF have shied away from adding additional ERJ-based Netra platforms to the fleet (despite the sunk cost of development) is because Embraer was accused of bribing various officials to get their aircraft selected. Further orders become politically untenable.
Also IAF is not interested in mere 240 degree coverage..........
They want a full 360 degree coverage
 

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