Discrimination is not just in "institutions". In fact, minimum amount of discrimination happens in institutions.
Actually, most significant of the discriminations happen in institutions. To give one example, my own uncle was denied promotion he was eligible for two years because of his caste by the governing body full of upper castes. This would not have happened if the governing body is made up of all the communities. Again, dont think I am claiming that OBCs/SCs are above this sort of behaviour but far from it. If there had been an all OBC or all SC governing body, then the same would have happened to a Brahmin/UC.
Do you disagree?
In the private sector, overt discrimination is ZERO, but there are still traces of subtle discrimination.
But discrimination exists nonetheless. Caste favoritism does exist there. But I dont think we can do anything about it till there is societal change. Also, we done even need to forcefully act against discrimination in a private sector- Why? Because they are not formed by the public and hence are in no obligation to be "egalitarian". If a private sector enterprise is discriminatory- say it wont employ LCs, Muslims or such, then it will be forced to bear the cost of it, like say losing out on a talented LC or a Muslim. Hence, the private sector making a choice of discrimination is already paying a price for it. So Either he will face the consequences for it, like a rival with no/less discriminatory bias overtaking him by hiring the people he rejected based on the castes/community, or he will be forced to change. Or even the negative PR associated with discrimination and its news relating to a company might pull down its stocks, market presence etc because of LCs boycotting it! So even without any external govt pressure, the private sector will be forced to reform or perish.
But govt institutions of the other hand have no such obligation as there is nothing in it personally for the people who run it. Also, being a govt institution means that they are obligated to serve every single person the govt represents and hence it should be constructed in a way that it actually does every single person.
The maximum discrimination happens in society. In rural areas, the discrimination is rife, especially in the badlands of India. OBCs (like Yadavs and Jats) are notorious for killing a daughter who marries a man from a "lower caste". Extreme violence against "lower castes", horrible discrimination in terms of simple things like drawing water from communal wells, sharing a meal or entering one's house - this stuff is practiced by OBCs much more than anyone else. The target is invariably SC/STs.
Absolutely agree. This is not a problem solved by reservation. It is solved by constant ridiculing of caste system, awareness, urbanisation increased economic growth etc. And yes OBCs are the worst offenders "now". There is no denying that
The fact of the matter is that Brahmins are a much more educated community than any other, in general (with some exceptions). You will say that this is because of the "head start" they have had and the fact that they were the best placed to take advantage of clerical jobs in the British Raj. Whatever the reason may be, the fact is that education brings with it, enlightenment and moderation, openness to new ideas, etc.
I agree that they are. Their role in societal discrimination has decreased to a large extent.
The real discrimination that exists as of today - the primary culprits are the rural OBCs.
Again, I agree that the OBCs in rural areas are the biggest offenders in "societal " discrimination.
So yes, while discrimination in institutions is not done by OBCs to a great extent, there is not too much discrimination in formal institutions anyway.
I disagree that there is not much discrimination in institutes. There are several cases of discrimination based on castes, which of course, the media(monopolied by upper castes) wont report
I know several of my seniors, who left their seats in institutions like AIIMS because of the caste discrimination there.
These thing will happen so long as any one group has control over the institution. Since the govt introduced OBC reservation only in 2008, it will take atleast 20-30 years(the time it will take for the assitant professors to be promoted to professors and HODs) before the institutes like AIIMS are adminstered by a proper "representative" governing body- with equal amount of all communities
Proportional reservation is not a good idea in the complete sense. We cannot have every set of jobs proportioned out on the basis of caste composition: 10% Brahmin, 20% OBC, 50% SC, etc.
Why not? I hear a lot of bigots running around whining about how unfair for them that 15% of them have to compete with 100% of the population for a meagre 50% seats?
I am suggesting them an idea so that they dont have to deal with this supposed "unfairness"
But if they reject it because they know that they are already over represented in the institutions and that proportional reservations will actually hurt their caste, does it not actually mean that they are just being caste bigots going under the pretense of "egalitarianism" and other nonsense?
In general, reservation was introduced so that we could give the discriminated castes a helping hand and pull them up. It was an attempt to make the playing field level. Which is fine - the intention was progressive and enlightened.
That was not the only reason- reservations were given because of the need for social mobility and proper representation. In fact, if the reservation had be complete, we would not be seeing any kind of discrimination anywhere
I will give you the example of TN- 69% reservation. Everyone is represented everywhere. You will find SC/OBC/FC deans, hods, professors, assitant professors etc in our medical colleges. In that way, if some one from say OBC is harassing a SC student, he will have someone to look after him among the deans, HODs, professors etc.
Do you think that the same will be true for the SCs or even FCs if the entire faculty/bureaucracy from HODs, Deans, professors are formed only by OBCs?
What do you think will happen if entire bureaucracy is filled with only a single caste?
But: the "creamy layer" must be strictly defined and strictly excluded. No reservations for creamy layer, no matter which caste he/she belongs to. Period. And as the "creamy layer" expands over the years, hopefully reservation will become redundant, and we can put this debate to rest for good.
Creamy layer does not affect the UCs right? Why do you think they are so bent on bringing it in if they are not going to be affected by it? Why do you think that is?
I mean, if any one should ask for creamy layer to be implemented, it should be the SCs/OBCs who should be asking for the implementation of creamy layer and not the FCs. So why are the SCs/OBCs silent on it while FCs make the demand. It makes little sense because if there was no creamy layer, the competition for FCs will actually be lower.
For eg, if I get a rank 200 in general and rank 50 in OBC category, if I am denied reservation for being in creamy layer , then I will be forced into the general category when choosing a rank like MD medicine in my APIG entrance exams. But if I am not excluded from reservations, then I might get a chance to get a MD Radiology seat, which is ranked higher in counselling and hence free up a seat for a FC in that process. So how does the FCs benefit from the creamy layer? So why do you think they demand it?