Does Brahmin Bashing really deserve its due?

[Singh]

Indeed they allied with Aurangzeb to fight Ahom King of Assam, who was big time pain in the ass for Aurangzeb .... ..

When was this ?
Post or pre Dara Shikoh
Post or pre Martrydom of Guru Tegh Bahadur
Post or pre Martrydom of Sahibzade is

Sikhs had been fighting aurangzeb throughout. Please.


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[Singh]

I do not feel close to the Punjabi but as I'm a serious man, I have to make serious posts. A serious man like me cannot afford to go back to his old habits. I'm a serious man, now.

Spoken like a true baltistani.


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[Singh]

Why its a "Mythological"? History is History why be selective in approach?

Ignoring the much more comparatively recent events which show the rise of the ugly caste system under Brahmins ? Nicr


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[PredictablyMalicious]

Spoken like a true baltistani.


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You're breaking my balls. Stop breaking my balls kind sir.

 

[AnantS]

Ignoring the much more comparatively recent events which show the rise of the ugly caste system under Brahmins ? Nicr


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And there is no caste/religion discrimination practiced among Sikhism (considering no brahmins are there to enforce caste-ism)??? I have seen much worse for caste-ism in Sikhs themselves where Jaat rule the roost and Mazhabis and alike bear the brunt. (I am leaving aside the utopian and theoretical aspect of Sikhsim religion of no caste-ism since you refuse to accept the evidences of fluid caste-ism in Hindu religion where it was merely classification of people according to work they do, having no forbearing on their progeny's caste. The examples I quoted were precisely to highlight the same. You want medieval history: Know who Mauryas, Mahrattas originally were and how their caste and status changed).

 

[AnantS]

When was this ?
Post or pre Dara Shikoh
Post or pre Martrydom of Guru Tegh Bahadur
Post or pre Martrydom of Sahibzade is

Sikhs had been fighting aurangzeb throughout. Please.


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Guru Teg Bahadur accompanied Raja Ram Singh (who was sent by Aurangzeb) against Ahom king. Its not clear whether Guru Teg Bahadur fought in that battle along Ram Singh, but they did lead to peace accord between Raja Ram Singh and Ahom King.

History for you:
Battle_of_Saraighat

Mughal imperial invasion
Mughal emperor Aurangzeb was informed of the losses on 19 December 1667 and he commissioned Raja Ram Singh of Amber, son of the famous Mirza Raja Jai Singh, to take back Guwahati. Ram Singh left Delhi on 27 December 1667 and finally reached Rangamati in February in 1669. He was accompanied, as was the Mughal custom of sending two generals, by Rashid Khan, ex-faujdar of Guwahati, and from Patna by the Sikh Guru Tegh Bahadur. The Ahoms, anticipating a Mughal strike, are said to have followed his movements from Delhi itself. Along the way Aurangzeb augmented Ram Singh's forces of 4,000 troopers (from his char-hazaari mansab), 1,500 ahadis and 500 barqandezes by an additional 30,000 infantrymen, 21 Rajput chiefs (Thakurs) with their contingents, 18,000 cavalry, 2,000 archers and shieldmen and 40 ships.[7] When Lachit surveyed the massive Mughal force later, he was moved to tears and he uttered: "It is a tragedy that my country is facing this dire catastrophe during my Phukanship. How will my king be saved? How will my people be saved? And how will my posterity be saved?"[8]

Armies from Koch Bihar joined the Mughal forces since they were vassals.

 

[Ray]

Yea right. Like Biharis and your Bangali kin are so civilized right? Bangalis reek of fish 95 % of the time. See how civilized the great Bangladesh nation is. They are a homogenous Bangali nation.

Well, I can say that Bengalis are not very industrious, competitive or rambunctiously totally way as Punjabis.

Can't blame the Punjabis actually. The invaders came in from the North and the folks in the area of Punjab have had to fight for their existence and life and so are well equipped to fend for their own and also take some more.

Fish is actually not a bad thing to reek of. Guess what the up country folks reek of? Theke ki sharab. Intoxicating right both in smell and consequent activities, right?

 

[AnantS]

Guys every region in India, I mean every region in India has share of its cocky section of people. Be it Punjabis, Haryanvis, Bengalis, Tamils, Mallus, Marathis etc. I can understand pain of Sir Ray, beuase he served in Army where considerable no of people are from Punjab, he might have experienced groupism(Please do correct me Ray Sir, I may be completely off the tangent). I also understand pain of my colleagues from Tamil Nadu and Delhi who had were transferred to Bengal and had to work in offices where Bengali Groupism was big pain point. Same thing existed in Tamil Nadu, Karnatka , Maharashtra etc.

But as new economic realities force whole of India to churn inside out and migrate all over, much nuanced understanding of each other culture is slowly but surely forming, A new realization of being "Indian: as an actual Identity is forming, and understanding that all cultures across India though distinct share a very common framework. This was realized by Armymen earlier on, cause they were transferred all over India, mixed/worked with people of different hue. Now most of the young Indians who have to migrate for work in private sector experience the same realization. India has bright future.

 

[Ray]

Guys every region in India, I mean every region in India has share of its cocky section of people. Be it Punjabis, Haryanvis, Bengalis, Tamils, Mallus, Marathis etc. I can understand pain of Sir Ray, beuase he served in Army where considerable no of people are from Punjab, he might have experienced groupism(Please do correct me Ray Sir, I may be completely off the tangent). I also understand pain of my colleagues from Tamil Nadu and Delhi who had were transferred to Bengal and had to work in offices where Bengali Groupism was big pain point. Same thing existed in Tamil Nadu, Karnatka , Maharashtra etc.

But as new economic realities force whole of India to churn inside out and migrate all over, much nuanced understanding of each other culture is slowly but surely forming, A new realization of being "Indian: as an actual Identity is forming, and understanding that all cultures across India though distinct share a very common framework. This was realized by Armymen earlier on, cause they were transferred all over India, mixed/worked with people of different hue. Now most of the young Indians who have to migrate for work in private sector experience the same realization. India has bright future.

I wanted to share my views, but thought better of it.

Why cause heartburns.

Let me assure all, no community is without its negativity. And no one is perfect.

To be fair, I have had many juniors from the Punjab who have had higher ranks than me, but they have been most gracious and with fondness to me in my retired avatar. it is all because in the Army we are all the same, at least as far as I am concerned or have seen in a gross and crass manner.

It is right that Army evens out the kinks. An Army child is far better versed to be an Indian than a none army one. And bet your bottom dollar or rupee, the Army man is an Indian, First and always, caste, community, creed, religion notwithstanding.

Proud to be an Indian.

 

[pkroyal]

What is surprising is even the present day young lot discussing an irrelevant adjunct of our medieval past.

Some one is a Vaishya of trader class,some body a kanyakubj gaur brahmin, some one something else ??

Is this how our modern generation identifies itself,

Shouldn't I am an MBA, I am a golfer, fauji, IT expert, mountaineer, footballer, boxer, lawyer,doctor etc be enough.

It matters the least who you are or where you come from, what matters is how you conduct yourself ? behave / regard people.

If we still want our identities to be linked forever with our past ,who will look at the present & future.

Your intimate details ( gotra, roti /beti ka vyavahar) are of no interest to strangers.

What does get revealed is the up- startish upbringing when identity is not backed by any noteworthy achievement, but by some connection with the past to stay relevant in a public discourse.

Nail some noteworthy achievements against your name & you can easily define yourself !!

 

[Ray]

Note I have no idea who is @pkroyal.

Yet, note how @pkroyal and I are on the same wavelength.

It is all because we come from an organisation that is REAL SECULAR INDIA.

Proud to be from that Organisation.

 

[AnantS]

I wanted to share my views, but thought better of it.

Why cause heartburns.

Let me assure all, no community is without its negativity. And no one is perfect.

To be fair, I have had many juniors from the Punjab who have had higher ranks than me, but they have been most gracious and with fondness to me in my retired avatar. it is all because in the Army we are all the same, at least as far as I am concerned or have seen in a gross and crass manner.

It is right that Army evens out the kinks. An Army child is far better versed to be an Indian than a none army one. And bet your bottom dollar or rupee, the Army man is an Indian, First and always, caste, community, creed, religion notwithstanding.

Proud to be an Indian.

Sir I can understand the your pain. In private sector too, same problem exists, where sometimes regionalism crushes talent. Sir I think more homogeneity in workforce composition (be it private/or public sector) is needed. That only will solve this issue in long term.

 

[Ray]

Sir I can understand the your pain. In private sector too, same problem exists, where sometimes regionalism crushes talent. Sir I think more homogeneity in workforce composition (be it private/or public sector) is needed. That only will solve this issue in long term.

I doubt it.

This country has been fed and feted on our differences and to hold it as a flag to celebrate.

Caste, community, religion, region and so on and so forth.

Our politicians are the greatest enemies of our Nation since they brought this on us and are not manipulating the same so that it is ingrained indelible.

The Congress Party more than anyone else.

The posts in this forum establishes the same.

The real secularism and the much touted 'idea of India' is in the Army.

Sadly, that too is vanishing under this evil juggernaut.

 

[AnantS]

No we don't. Those aren't tribes either, we aren't tribal like the rest of India. Those are ethnicities unified by Punjabi culture. We intermarry with each other and are a world apart form castes.

So in rural Punjab(pind), will a Sikh Jat girl be allowed to marry a SC Sikh? Or she and her beau will have to fear their life or face social ostracism?

 

[AnantS]

I doubt it.

This country has been fed and feted on our differences and to hold it as a flag to celebrate.

Caste, community, religion, region and so on and so forth.

Our politicians are the greatest enemies of our Nation since they brought this on us and are not manipulating the same so that it is ingrained indelible.

The Congress Party more than anyone else.

The posts in this forum establishes the same.

The real secularism and the much touted 'idea of India' is in the Army.

Sadly, that too is vanishing under this evil juggernaut.

Sir, I am hopeful because I see more and more inter caste , inter region marriages happening, becoming common and accepted. This was very rare in your generation. Next generation will be more homogeneous than us. So that why I am hopeful.

 

[Ray]

Sir, I am hopeful because I see more and more inter caste , inter region marriages happening, becoming common and accepted. This was very rare in your generation. Next generation will be more homogeneous than us. So that why I am hopeful.

You would not believe how emancipated (or totally confused, if you will) is my family.

I revel in this confusion since it has broken all caste, community, religious identities including international barriers and make us, if it please you, as confused as India is.

 

[AnantS]

You would not believe how emancipated (or totally confused, if you will) is my family.

I revel in this confusion since it has broken all caste, community, religious identities including international barriers and make us, if it please you, as confused as India is.

I always forget Sir, that you belong to India's first truly metropolitan city with cosmopolitan culture(now sadly erstwhile). So cheers for that! My generation comment was in context of rest of India, especially NW India.

 

[Rowdy]

I doubt it.

This country has been fed and feted on our differences and to hold it as a flag to celebrate.

Caste, community, religion, region and so on and so forth.

Our politicians are the greatest enemies of our Nation since they brought this on us and are not manipulating the same so that it is ingrained indelible.

The Congress Party more than anyone else.

The posts in this forum establishes the same.

The real secularism and the much touted 'idea of India' is in the Army.

Sadly, that too is vanishing under this evil juggernaut.

Didn't congress want religious and cast wise census of the army?

 

[Ray]

Didn't congress want religious and cast wise census of the army?

Maybe.

That is to divide the only organisation that was still real secular but not a vote bank.

The issue is why and which foreign agency was behind it?

 

[Rowdy]

Maybe.

That is to divide the only organisation that was still real secular but not a vote bank.

The issue is why and which foreign agency was behind it?

Yup it's true

Added a top general, "Politics should not be played with the apolitical armed forces. The Army is an inclusive, secular force, open to all. It's for that reason the force had even opposed the religious headcount proposed by the Sachar Committee in 2005-06."

Source:
Army rejects calls to raise new units based on caste or religion - The Times of India