Civil war in Ukraine

[sgarg]

@jouni, you are brainwashed.

You take exchange rate as economic growth. We know the West dominated banking system can manipulate exchange rates. This manipulation is happening with many currencies, not only ruble.

The growth of Russia will come from industry and innovation. Putin has righted the Russian boat.

Russians' love for Europe is coming to an end. Russia has realized who are its real friends. Russia will survive but a lot of European countries will not.

Only foolish boxer tries to punch above his weight.

 

[pmaitra]

I have a request for you guys. Please take out some time and read the article referred to here: http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/europe-russia/61895-civil-war-ukraine-427.html#post963058

Don't believe it, but please give it a read.

 

[pmaitra]

I wonder how much of that 20bn circulated back to Russia. EU is now helping Ukraine to make a new transparent gas deal, which corrupt officials in both Ukr and Rus cannot penetrate and use for their own good.

Regarding west not helping Ukraine, just watch what is happening in Russian economy...

Ah, Ukraine so far did not pay for its gas, and Russia demanded it pay in advance. I see nothing wrong with it. How do you corroborate your claims of "corruption?" I never heard about "corruption" from the EU when Ukraine was stealing gas in transit.

 

[pmaitra]

More bad news for Ukraine, ostensibly under external pressure.

Ukrainian President Poroshenko supports Yatsenyuk for new PM term
Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko threw his support behind Arseny Yatsenyuk for a new term as prime minister on Friday. "I have proposed to the faction of the Poroshenko bloc that it submits Arseny Yatsenyuk as a candidate for prime minister," Poroshenko said in a tweet. The move ends speculation that the president might seek to bring in his own candidate as head of the government, Reuters said.

Source: http://rt.com/news/line/2014-10-31/#73891

 

[bhramos]

In the DNR developed a new 82-mm mortar with a silencer. Already conducted the first field tests of the new mortar, which confirmed incorporated at design specifications. The new mortar is created in the best interests of the Artillery Brigade" Kalmius "militia forces. The main purpose of the new development is the ability to fire from the closed and open positions with minimal telltale signs. On the regular 82 mm mortar sets up a special silencer, which should significantly reduce the noise shot and scattered waves in the detonation of the starting charge. The use of this technology will be applied to mortar positions near potential enemy and do not give up firing positions. After the field trials was decided to introduce a number of structural changes, then this mortar is planned to put into production at defense enterprises of Donetsk region controlled by militia forces. "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJOxPNJKzpk

 

[pmaitra]

^^

See the video from 4:45 onwards.

 

[Akim]

In the DNR developed a new 82-mm mortar with a silencer. Already conducted the first field tests of the new mortar, which confirmed incorporated at design specifications. The new mortar is created in the best interests of the Artillery Brigade" Kalmius "militia forces. The main purpose of the new development is the ability to fire from the closed and open positions with minimal telltale signs. On the regular 82 mm mortar sets up a special silencer, which should significantly reduce the noise shot and scattered waves in the detonation of the starting charge. The use of this technology will be applied to mortar positions near potential enemy and do not give up firing positions. After the field trials was decided to introduce a number of structural changes, then this mortar is planned to put into production at defense enterprises of Donetsk region controlled by militia forces. "

This is a usual mortar, to which was added a silencer. Here is the soundless mortar for sabotage - reconnaissance groups.
Ukrainian mortar 60 mm KBA-118

Batlle characteristics:
Diameter - 60 mm
Maximum firing range -1429 m
The rate of fire of 20 rounds per minute
The elevation - 40 - 85 degrees
The weight of the mortar - 12.5 kg
Mass fragmentation mines - 1.33 kg

 

[jouni]

@jouni, you are brainwashed.

You take exchange rate as economic growth. We know the West dominated banking system can manipulate exchange rates. This manipulation is happening with many currencies, not only ruble.

The growth of Russia will come from industry and innovation. Putin has righted the Russian boat.

Russians' love for Europe is coming to an end. Russia has realized who are its real friends. Russia will survive but a lot of European countries will not.

Only foolish boxer tries to punch above his weight.

Yes, only foolish boxers punch above their weight: GDP EU, US 35 Trillion GDP Russia 2.4 Trillion.
Regarding innovations coming from Russian industry we have been waiting for them since the fall of the Czar.

 

[jouni]

I have a request for you guys. Please take out some time and read the article referred to here: http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/europe-russia/61895-civil-war-ukraine-427.html#post963058

Don't believe it, but please give it a read.

They are blaming Ukraine to be anti Russian. Well if Russia created separatism in Eastern Finland and then occupied it, I would assume that Finland would become "anti-Russian" pretty quickly. Of course we have known the ways of our dear neighbour for so long, that this kind of situation could never have happened here.

Of course if in the article you use words like "hooligan" and "junta" in the first paragraph, it does not sound very academic. FSB should not have cut the literature classes of its academy for young recruits.

 

[pmaitra]

They are blaming Ukraine to be anti Russian. Well if Russia created separatism in Eastern Finland and then occupied it, I would assume that Finland would become "anti-Russian" pretty quickly. Of course we have known the ways of our dear neighbour for so long, that this kind of situation could never have happened here.

It's a pretty long article. I divided up my time across three days to complete it.

 

[Ray]

If a part of a country has divided loyalties and it is occupied or encourage to rebel by a neighbouring country, then it is natural that the rest of the country or the majority beyond the region that has divided loyalties to get riled about.

That is quite natural.

 

[jouni]

It's a pretty long article. I divided up my time across three days to complete it.

I tried to read it but unfortunately Ukrainian elections showed situation as it is. Free elections show a unified country with very little support for parties that are nationalist or pro-Russian. Now the world sees Russian actions as they are, just like Akim has been telling all along.

 

[pmaitra]

I tried to read it but unfortunately Ukrainian elections showed situation as it is. Free elections show a unified country with very little support for parties that are nationalist or pro-Russian. Now the world sees Russian actions as they are, just like Akim has been telling all along.

The elections have very little support of the people in general. Less than 50% of the eligible voters voted, and who knows what the true number might be. The "lustration bill" does not inspire confidence, and comes across as yet another politician witch-hunting designed to remove all the dissenting voices. This is one in a series of actions taken, such as abrogation of the Constitutional Court, threatening of Presidential Candidates, etc..

Democracy ended on February 21, 2014. There is no government in Ukraine at the moment. The Kremlin may disagree.

 

[sgarg]

Yes, only foolish boxers punch above their weight: GDP EU, US 35 Trillion GDP Russia 2.4 Trillion.
Regarding innovations coming from Russian industry we have been waiting for them since the fall of the Czar.

Right. You are finally getting the point that is is NATO vs Russia. Please explain that to Akim.

While puny Russia gave 20B per year to Ukraine via SUBSIDY, the mighty NATO (or IMF) gives loans to Ukraine which come with conditions and have to be paid back.
Akim should explain who has been friend of Ukraine. How will Ukraine do without Russia??

Russia is not attacking NATO. NATO is attacking Russia. Hope you understand that. So yes NATO is taking advantage of its $35T economy.

If we take your logic and take this 15:1 advantage in favour of NATO, then its performance is East Ukraine does not sound credible at all.
Novo Russia is a reality for all practical purposes. Kiev's forces are under pressure. This does not look like 15:1 advantage in Kiev's favour.

As far innovations, Russia builds a lot of high technology equipment. Russia still has access to some Soviet built technology that has not seen the light of the day. Russia will prove far ahead of West's expectations in real war.

Russia's problem is it cannot project force far from its border. But within its region, Russia is still capable of defeating its adversaries.

Russia is basically eastern culture. Russia was weak also as Eastern nations were weak so Russia (and USSR) did not get backup. This may change in future. As I said earlier, the Chinese are key. The Chinese behaviour can turn the tables on the West.

 

[pmaitra]

The US is a Naval Power. Russia is a Land Power. Each has its own pros and cons. The article I mentioned (originally posted by @Cadian) gives a very good analysis, and how Russia played it much better despite being dealt a poor hand.

On a slightly different note, comment boards are replete with comments about how a US rocket blew up and immediately after that, Russia offered its services. Of course those are conspiracy theories, but no worse than what comes out of BBC, NYT, and their ilk. (I was expecting someone to blame the BUK-M1 missile on the failure of the US rocket.)

 

[jouni]

The elections have very little support of the people in general. Less than 50% of the eligible voters voted, and who knows what the true number might be. The "lustration bill" does not inspire confidence, and comes across as yet another politician witch-hunting designed to remove all the dissenting voices. This is one in a series of actions taken, such as abrogation of the Constitutional Court, threatening of Presidential Candidates, etc..

Democracy ended on February 21, 2014. There is no government in Ukraine at the moment. The Kremlin may disagree.

You are a man of faith. You remind me of those Dutch Waffen SS men who defended Reichstag ruins in Berlin 1945. Respect.

 

[pmaitra]

You are a man of faith. You remind me of those Dutch Waffen SS men who defended Reichstag ruins in Berlin 1945. Respect.

I know, anyone who doesn't agree with you reminds you of the Nazis, or something related to that, except the real Nazis. :thumb:

 

[jouni]

Ilkka Remes

Ilkka Remeksen uudessa teoksessa Venäjä on mahdoton uhka - Kirja - Kulttuuri - Helsingin Sanomat

I might have to take a break from this forum for a while. Finnish bestseller author Ilkka Remes just published a book called Horna ( hellfire ).
Finland is sucked into a Ukraine like crisis with Russia, then US and NATO betrays Finland and she is facing war against Russia alone... sounds great. Hope they publish Hindu language version soon...naturally colorful costumes and happy songs added.

 

[pmaitra]

Ilkka Remes

Ilkka Remeksen uudessa teoksessa Venäjä on mahdoton uhka - Kirja - Kulttuuri - Helsingin Sanomat

I might have to take a break from this forum for a while. Finnish bestseller author Ilkka Remes just published a book called Horna ( hellfire ).
Finland is sucked into a Ukraine like crisis with Russia, then US and NATO betrays Finland and she is facing war against Russia alone... sounds great. Hope they publish Hindu language version soon...

I will await your promised account on Finnish independence from Russia in the other thread.

 

[jouni]

Right. You are finally getting the point that is is NATO vs Russia. Please explain that to Akim.

While puny Russia gave 20B per year to Ukraine via SUBSIDY, the mighty NATO (or IMF) gives loans to Ukraine which come with conditions and have to be paid back.
Akim should explain who has been friend of Ukraine. How will Ukraine do without Russia??

Russia is not attacking NATO. NATO is attacking Russia. Hope you understand that. So yes NATO is taking advantage of its $35T economy.

If we take your logic and take this 15:1 advantage in favour of NATO, then its performance is East Ukraine does not sound credible at all.
Novo Russia is a reality for all practical purposes. Kiev's forces are under pressure. This does not look like 15:1 advantage in Kiev's favour.

As far innovations, Russia builds a lot of high technology equipment. Russia still has access to some Soviet built technology that has not seen the light of the day. Russia will prove far ahead of West's expectations in real war.

Russia's problem is it cannot project force far from its border. But within its region, Russia is still capable of defeating its adversaries.

Russia is basically eastern culture. Russia was weak also as Eastern nations were weak so Russia (and USSR) did not get backup. This may change in future. As I said earlier, the Chinese are key. The Chinese behaviour can turn the tables on the West.

I do not think that it is west vs east. It is more that Russia wants to expand and is trying to create this Eurasian union, but its systems cant compete with those of free democratic countries and is therefore had to use " the other means"