Civil war in Ukraine

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Optimistic Nihilist

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Economically, yes, but then again, who has won a war "economically" anyways?

How's Chechnya a political loss though?
I was talking about the after-effects of the conflict. The status quo that was formed after the conflict subsided was a political and economic loss for Russia throughout, even to this day.

Just think about it.

For every 10 civilians gunned down, a Russian solder got gutted/castrated/etc etc. They didn't enjoy chechnya, even if they technically won. Chechnya sparked massive outcries from the population back in early 2000, and nowadays youngsters try to avoid military conscription by all means.

By giving Chechens their semi-independence, their own Islamic constitution, their own police, the right to dodge military service (yeah, White Russians will serve in Ukraine while Akhmat fucks his 4 wives in Grozny).
90% of the Chechen budget is provided by Moscow, so whites are paying for their gibs since Chechnya has massive unemployment issues, the economy is virtually non-existent there.

They pay enormous tribute to CAUCASOID Muslims every month just to ensure that they won't start another independence war. They allowed Caucasoid Muzzies to genocide all Russian civilians in their respective territories (Chechnya and Dagestan). Blood and guts of killed russians were used by the Muslims to mark "cleansed homes".

Now Putin pays them enough money to build golden mosques. Russian police never persecutes the Muzzies no matter how severe their crime is.

Chechnya is basically an Islamic state with Russian gibs so 1996 doesn't happen again.

The real moron cum villain here is Yeltsin.

Free market capitalism is a more efficient economic system than socialist central-planning, but the way it was implemented in Russia was so bad that 1991-96 was literally apocalypse tier. "Shock therapy" and all that. Administrative regions disobeying the government, exploding poverty, hyperinflation, surging homelessness, homeless veterans, gutted social services, failing healthcare, rising suicide rate, unthinkable wealth inequality, and to top it all off losing a war to Chechnya after already losing 14 other countries.

It's no wonder Yeltsin was at 2% approval when he left office. Really sad that this clown was in charge of liberalisation and democratisation instead of someone else, good thing he won in 1996 though otherwise he would have annulled the result like he said he would and Russian democracy would be even more of a joke than it is now.

Russians lost the first conflict by treating Chechnya like a simple rebelling Russian province. They won the second conflict by treating Caucasian Muslims like the Tsar and the Russian Empire did.
 

Akim

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I am confused by the translation, they caught a separatist or caught a deserter? @Akim
Collaborator. They are helping another country, so not a separatist. He's hardly a deserter. This is a common practice when people from the occupied territories receive Russian and Ukrainian pensions too. Life there is expensive.
 

mist_consecutive

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Bro Ukranians are a wonderful people and country.

But the truth is if Russia attacks, you guys are fucked.

These are the same chaps who destroyed Nazi Germany while drunk on Vodka and misery.

The Western world is using you people as a 'meatshield' to test Russian Hypersonic / Next Gen to unite NATO against them and by extension against the Chinese.

Either Ukraine will turn into Syria or it will be reabsorbed (forcefully) into Russia like Chechnya. Neither scenario looks good.
In general, pretty much all slavic countries are vodka-fuelled, high-testosterone madmen with complete disregard for danger.

And while you say Russia destroyed nazi Germany, remember, the crux of their motivation was attack on their motherland. Something Russia might be going to do on Ukraine.

But yeah, NATO is playing Ukraine by giving them anti-tank missiles and guns. They just want to see Russia and Ukraine burn. If they were serious about defending Ukraine, they should have supplied them with Patriots.
 

SwordOfDarkness

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In general, pretty much all slavic countries are vodka-fuelled, high-testosterone madmen with complete disregard for danger.

And while you say Russia destroyed nazi Germany, remember, the crux of their motivation was attack on their motherland. Something Russia might be going to do on Ukraine.

But yeah, NATO is playing Ukraine by giving them anti-tank missiles and guns. They just want to see Russia and Ukraine burn. If they were serious about defending Ukraine, they should have supplied them with Patriots.
NATO is hyping up Ukraine, but also saying "Yeah it will be a real tragedy, world torn apart. Also, no, we dont plan on doing anything useful. Here are 2 biscut and chai, have a fun war."
 

mist_consecutive

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Is there any other forum that is actively keeping a tab on the Russia-Ukraine standoff ? I tried to find some but seems like old-timer websites are now shut down
 

Dark Sorrow

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1. Russia is the Soviet Union, the most decisive battles of WW2 were fought around Leningrad, Stalingrad and Moscow not Kyiv.
Russian is not Soviet Union. Russia is just a fraction of what Soviet Union was. The soviet strategy to win any war is out number and out gun enemy. The same strategy is used by Russians.
2. Russians are used to suffering at the hands of mad Tsars, Dictators and Plutocrats. Their very capital grew out of a small trading village which defeated Mongols to form an empire. This makes them a very intelligent and hardly people.
Battle are won and lost for many reasons. It doesn't makes them a very intelligent and hardly people.
All nations today have suffered in hands of somebody at some-point of time. Russian strategy to win war is war is to out number and out gun enemy.
They can launch Kalibr missiles from the Black Sea with impunity. To reiterate no USN CBG / SSGN will fire on Russia to stop their advance.
The word impunity can only exist in defense forums. In real life their is no such thing called impunity. Once war starts things spiral out of control and no one can't effectively predict how things will turn up.
5. Ukraine possesses no Ballistic Missile that can reach Russian heartlands. You have no way to even affect Russian morale. If you think they care about body bags it shows how soft 8 years with the West has made Ukraine.
Russians are already anxious. Sanctions are affecting them badly. Ordinary Russians have started feeling the heat. Russian morale is already shaky.
If Russians are unable to ensure quick victory with minimal casualties then the shit goes down the drain.
The best thing for Ukraine is to temper their eagerness to be a pawn for the Western powers and mend fences with Russia.
Why? What good can Russia do for them? Ukraine is a free country and should be free to pursue their interest. By the above logic India should surrender itself to whims of PRC. No self respecting country bends itself to the whims of other country.
I suspect bias in your above statement.
 

vampyrbladez

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Russian is not Soviet Union. Russia is just a fraction of what Soviet Union was. The soviet strategy to win any war is out number and out gun enemy. The same strategy is used by Russians.

Battle are won and lost for many reasons. It doesn't makes them a very intelligent and hardly people.
All nations today have suffered in hands of somebody at some-point of time. Russian strategy to win war is war is to out number and out gun enemy.

The word impunity can only exist in defense forums. In real life their is no such thing called impunity. Once war starts things spiral out of control and no one can't effectively predict how things will turn up.

Russians are already anxious. Sanctions are affecting them badly. Ordinary Russians have started feeling the heat. Russian morale is already shaky.
If Russians are unable to ensure quick victory with minimal casualties then the shit goes down the drain.

Why? What good can Russia do for them? Ukraine is a free country and should be free to pursue their interest. By the above logic India should surrender itself to whims of PRC. No self respecting country bends itself to the whims of other country.
I suspect bias in your above statement.
1. Russia today is still 60-70% of what the Soviet Union was and are capable of punching above their weight.

They lead the world currently in operationalising hypersonic weaponry and have the second highest nuclear (SSBN/ SSN) capability in the world.

2. Russian military has been constantly engaged in combat operations in Syria, Yemen and in the Balkans.

Ukranians by comparison got taken by miners and drunks with the help of little green men.

3. As stated before Ukraine has no protection under the NATO charter, Article 5 of the Washington Treaty only provides mutual defence to all NATO members which Ukraine is not.

Any USN SSGN/ CBG trying to intervene will get swarmed by thousands of Iskander, Zircon, P 800 missiles from land based batteries leading to a collapse of the EU theatre defence strategy.

3. Russians are experts at hiding casualties and propaganda control. They wrote the book on this.

4. Russia like US has zones of influence. What NATO is trying to do here is equivalent to China overthrowing Mexico's government with a pro Chinese anti US leadership.

The same thing was attempted by China with Nepal in India's context.

5. Everyone knows Ukraine is being egged on to get thrashed by Russia so that sanctions can cripple oil / mineral supplies thus collapsing supply chains and spreading chaos in downstream countries like India and China.

The only winning movie is not to play by NATO's gameplan here.



P.S: I still haven't mentioned China doing a sneak attack on Taiwan, effectively splitting five eyes countries forces between two fronts.
 

Akim

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1. Russia today is still 60-70% of what the Soviet Union was and are capable of punching above their weight.

They lead the world currently in operationalising hypersonic weaponry and have the second highest nuclear (SSBN/ SSN) capability in the world.

2. Russian military has been constantly engaged in combat operations in Syria, Yemen and in the Balkans.

Ukranians by comparison got taken by miners and drunks with the help of little green men.

3. As stated before Ukraine has no protection under the NATO charter, Article 5 of the Washington Treaty only provides mutual defence to all NATO members which Ukraine is not.

Any USN SSGN/ CBG trying to intervene will get swarmed by thousands of Iskander, Zircon, P 800 missiles from land based batteries leading to a collapse of the EU theatre defence strategy.

3. Russians are experts at hiding casualties and propaganda control. They wrote the book on this.

4. Russia like US has zones of influence. What NATO is trying to do here is equivalent to China overthrowing Mexico's government with a pro Chinese anti US leadership.

The same thing was attempted by China with Nepal in India's context.

5. Everyone knows Ukraine is being egged on to get thrashed by Russia so that sanctions can cripple oil / mineral supplies thus collapsing supply chains and spreading chaos in downstream countries like India and China.

The only winning movie is not to play by NATO's gameplan here.



P.S: I still haven't mentioned China doing a sneak attack on Taiwan, effectively splitting five eyes countries forces between two fronts.
Let them try. Thousands of missiles. Haha. This is probably why the Iskanders are pulled from Siberia. The Russian ruble has already fallen. A strong economy has a stable currency.
When there was a volley from the Caspian Sea in Syria, then this is the budget of a half-million Russian city.
It doesn't take much courage to bomb unarmed Syrians. But when the sabotage groups begin to undermine bridges, dams, chemical plants, etc in Russia., let's see if this war will be a joy to them.
 

vampyrbladez

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Let them try. Thousands of missiles. Haha. This is probably why the Iskanders are pulled from Siberia. The Russian ruble has already fallen. A strong economy has a stable currency.
When there was a volley from the Caspian Sea in Syria, then this is the budget of a half-million Russian city.
It doesn't take much courage to bomb unarmed Syrians. But when the sabotage groups begin to undermine bridges, dams, chemical plants, etc., let's see if this war will be a joy to them.
Bro this is a laughable level of over confidence!

You believe Russia will just shrug and give up just because....they have a war chest of $620 Billion with economic guarantees from China.

Russia doesn't care about your existing infrastructure. That's because they built it and don't care if it is bombed or not.

Sabotage groups! Partisans! Some AI controlled killer drones will make short work of a Wolverines fantasy gifted by China.

This is going to be really funny to see when Ukranian formations crumble against overwhelming Russian bombardment and air superiority and borders of EU are swarmed with refugees.

Now Ukranian, Syrian, Libyan and African refugees will fight with for dominance in the ghettos of France, Germany, Sweden and the rest of the EU!

Look I am not trying to bring down your country but geopolitics cannot be trumped by make belief.
 

Akim

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Bro this is a laughable level of over confidence!

You believe Russia will just shrug and give up just because....they have a war chest of $620 Billion with economic guarantees from China.

Russia doesn't care about your existing infrastructure. That's because they built it and don't care if it is bombed or not.

Sabotage groups! Partisans! Some AI controlled killer drones will make short work of a Wolverines fantasy gifted by China.

This is going to be really funny to see when Ukranian formations crumble against overwhelming Russian bombardment and air superiority and borders of EU are swarmed with refugees.

Now Ukranian, Syrian, Libyan and African refugees will fight with for dominance in the ghettos of France, Germany, Sweden and the rest of the EU!

Look I am not trying to bring down your country but geopolitics cannot be trumped by make belief.
How many? :shock:Why did you add zero to the military budget? India has a larger military budget than Russia. Further, everything is clear. In Russian, this is "закидаем шапками". In the 19th century, when the British and French landed in the Crimea, one Russian officer said so. Outcome is known.
 

Dark Sorrow

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1. Russia today is still 60-70% of what the Soviet Union was and are capable of punching above their weight.
Neither Soviet Union nor Russia were capable of punching above their weight. As a matter of fact Russia always bullies weaker countries around its border. No sane countries punches above their weight or you end up like Germans in World War 2.
They lead the world currently in operationalising hypersonic weaponry and have the second highest nuclear (SSBN/ SSN) capability in the world.
Ukraine conflict is going to be mostly fought over land and their won't be much naval action.
2. Russian military has been constantly engaged in combat operations in Syria, Yemen and in the Balkans.

Ukranians by comparison got taken by miners and drunks with the help of little green men.
Not much of fighting is done by Russians in either of these states nor will that experience help them in Ukraine.
During initial stages of Kargil even Indian Army faced operation issues and we have lot of experience fighting counter-insurgency in the region Fighting a hot-war is very different..
3. As stated before Ukraine has no protection under the NATO charter, Article 5 of the Washington Treaty only provides mutual defence to all NATO members which Ukraine is not.
That won't stop NATO countries from sending economic and military air.
Any USN SSGN/ CBG trying to intervene will get swarmed by thousands of Iskander, Zircon, P 800 missiles from land based batteries leading to a collapse of the EU theatre defence strategy.
And what that, are Russians to fight entire NATO, EU and their allies.
3. Russians are experts at hiding casualties and propaganda control. They wrote the book on this.
Agreed. Russia is not a transparent nation.
4. Russia like US has zones of influence. What NATO is trying to do here is equivalent to China overthrowing Mexico's government with a pro Chinese anti US leadership.

The same thing was attempted by China with Nepal in India's context.
You are comparing apples to oranges. US keeps hold over Mexico by means of economic co-operation.
PRC just throwed heaps of money at Nepal.
What Russia is doing is brinkmanship with its military.
If Russia could provide economic benefits to Ukraine they would have never gone to western camp. The fact remains Russia is not capable to exert its zone of influence without subjugating its neighbor by means of military.
5. Everyone knows Ukraine is being egged on to get thrashed by Russia so that sanctions can cripple oil / mineral supplies thus collapsing supply chains and spreading chaos in downstream countries like India and China.

The only winning movie is not to play by NATO's gameplan here.



P.S: I still haven't mentioned China doing a sneak attack on Taiwan, effectively splitting five eyes countries forces between two fronts.
I don't know how people have decided that Ukraine will be trashed even before advent of hostilities.
In case of prolonged conflict Russia might win but for short conflict things can't be predicted.
Ukraine conflict will be war of attrition. Ukraine just has to cause enough looses for Russian whereby it will be untannable for Putin to continue the conflict.
 
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vampyrbladez

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Neither Soviet Union nor Russia were capable of punching above their weight. As a matter of fact Russia always bullies weaker countries around its border. No sane countries punches above their weight or you end up like Germans in World War 2.

Ukraine conflict is going to be mostly fought over land and their won't be much naval action.

Not much of fighting is done by Russians in either of these states nor will that experience help them in Ukraine.
During initial stages of Kargil even Indian Army faced operation issues and we have lot of experience fighting counter-insurgency in the region Fighting a hot-war is very different..

That won't stop NATO countries from sending economic and military air.

And what that, are Russians to fight entire NATO, EU and their allies.

Agreed. Russia is not a transparent nation.

You are comparing apples to oranges. US keeps hold over Mexico by means of economic co-operation.
PRC just throwed heaps of money at Nepal.
What Russia is doing is brinkmanship with its military.
If Russia could provide economic benefits to Ukraine they would have never gone to western camp. The fact remains Russia is not capable to exert its zone of influence without subjugating its neighbor by means of military.

I don't know how people have decided that Ukraine will be trashed even before advent of hostilities.
In case of prolonged conflict Russia might win but for short conflict things can't be predicted.
Ukraine conflict will be war of attrition. Ukraine just has to cause enough looses for Russian whereby it will be untannable for Putin to continue the conflict.
1. Russians are the strongest military in Europe and the US cannot deploy as they used to outside their few remaining bases.

2. You can rule out military air support as this will violate Article 5 of the Washington Treaty on mutual self defence for only NATO members.

3. Ukraine will be captured by Russia in a matter of days. Occupation will be a different matter but then again they are brutal stewards.

4. This will be short term high velocity war. Guerrilla warfare with no land border with NATO will not be sustainable against Russia.

5. China will continue to throw money at Russia and buy their gas, oil and minerals along with military technology for reverse engineering.

6. India has actual combat experience against a professional military (1947, 1962, 1965, 1971, 1984-86, 1999, 2019). Ukraine has no experience fighting against a superior professional military.

7. Ukraine should have balanced military ties with Russia and economic relations with West. This way they could have had the best of both worlds. Instead now they have none.

This war frenzy will only lead to Ukraine getting balkanized and turned into Syria. There is nothing to gain here.
 

Akim

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1. Russians are the strongest military in Europe and the US cannot deploy as they used to outside their few remaining bases.

2. You can rule out military air support as this will violate Article 5 of the Washington Treaty on mutual self defence for only NATO members.

3. Ukraine will be captured by Russia in a matter of days. Occupation will be a different matter but then again they are brutal stewards.

4. This will be short term high velocity war. Guerrilla warfare with no land border with NATO will not be sustainable against Russia.

5. China will continue to throw money at Russia and buy their gas, oil and minerals along with military technology for reverse engineering.

6. India has actual combat experience against a professional military (1947, 1962, 1965, 1971, 1984-86, 1999, 2019). Ukraine has no experience fighting against a superior professional military.

7. Ukraine should have balanced military ties with Russia and economic relations with West. This way they could have had the best of both worlds. Instead now they have none.

This war frenzy will only lead to Ukraine getting balkanized and turned into Syria. There is nothing to gain here.
Combat experience is determined by the present generation. The past can only be remembered and proud.
I don't remember a major war between Pakistan and India in 2019.
 

JBH22

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How many? :shock:Why did you add zero to the military budget? India has a larger military budget than Russia. Further, everything is clear. In Russian, this is "закидаем шапками". In the 19th century, when the British and French landed in the Crimea, one Russian officer said so. Outcome is known.
In monetary terms, yes we have bigger budget.
But in reality our capability is far behind Russian actual capability. Superior industry to back war effort, coupled with commodity and Russian soldier is on average better fighter.
 

alphacentury

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Collaborator. They are helping another country, so not a separatist. He's hardly a deserter. This is a common practice when people from the occupied territories receive Russian and Ukrainian pensions too. Life there is expensive.
I fear the fancy american tech landing right now in Ukraine will similarly end up in Russian hands.
 
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