China's vulnerability in Malacca Strait

[trackwhack]

look at my previous post for why it won't work.
1. there are 90,000 ships pass through malacca every year, you gonna check every ships, and see if it goes to china or not? there aren't enough resource to handle that many ships.
2. AIS transponder won't work. can be turn off, send false signal etc etc.
3. alot ships that goto/from china doesn't even belong to china, so you gonna board a foreign shps, say japan, sweden etc?
4. are you gonna stop other nations ships that come from china onroute to other countries? how do you know that ships is coming from china, and not from japan etc.

there are too much work to sort through which ships belong to whom, and its destination. it will overwhelm whoever try to sort through all the ships destination etc etc.
just like US doesn't have the ability to check every ship or container in their ports

we dont live in the stoneage. 90,000 ships a year is less than 250 a day. technology allows every merchant vessal to be tracked. And dont worry, after we sink 20 of them, you think the others will want to still try going through. you dont seem to understand what happens in a war.

 

[s002wjh]

how about the easiest way satellite tracking??

satelite is for AIS. all the stuff that send from ships are volunteer info for civilian/traffic purpose. these transponder can be turn off or modify to send false info. SAR(synthetic aperture radar) can only detect ships, not ID or know the destination of ships.

the only sure way is board the ships or seal off the malacca completely or seal off choke point near chinese coast and chinese ports. all these has its own problems

 

[nimo_cn]

After pages of discussion, it is becoming clear China is dead meat. Time for China to consider surrendering to the supremacy of India.

 

[Mad Indian]

India may have the strongest country in the world but its political leader ship will surely lack the spine to take a definitive action on a matter as big as the Blockade of the Malaccan Strait, specially when more than one country is involved. Get a strong political leadership like that we had under Indira, we can quash the Chicoms under our feet.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

satelite is for AIS. all the stuff that send from ships are volunteer info for civilian/traffic purpose. these transponder can be turn off or modify to send false info. SAR(synthetic aperture radar) can only detect ships, not ID or know the destination of ships.

the only sure way is board the ships or seal off the malacca completely or seal off choke point near chinese coast and chinese ports. all these has its own problems

Keep the satellites over chinese ports.

 

[s002wjh]

we dont live in the stoneage. 90,000 ships a year is less than 250 a day. technology allows every merchant vessal to be tracked. And dont worry, after we sink 20 of them, you think the others will want to still try going through. you dont seem to understand what happens in a war.

not again, how many time i have to explain this.
look my previous post #127

all the satelite tracking stuff is tracking the transponder on ships, these transponder is volunteer info from the ships for peceatime, civilian, traffic purpose only, can be turn off or send false info. its useless if the ships decide not to be tracked/located/ or just send a false info. you think chinese cargo ships will willing allow enemy know their location etc etc. again do some research on modern ship transponder such as AIS, and its purpose, then youll know how easy that system can be manipulate. its not a military system, and its not for enemy to track their ships.

 

[Yusuf]

After pages of discussion, it is becoming clear China is dead meat. Time for China to consider surrendering to the supremacy of India.

You still have time to detect.

 

[s002wjh]

Keep the satellites over chinese ports.

not gonna work period. no satellites can track thousands ships 24/7, not even US.

 

[Virendra]

What do you people think about the proposals like Thai (Kra) Canal or rail road to cut through Thailand and relieve the straits of Malacca.
While it is something China obviously salivates upon but how good or bad is it for India?

Here's what an Indian General said at an interview after military exercise with Thailand in 2005.
"But the fact is that with things like the Kra canal, the Andaman and Nicobar islands will come into play."
"So then you have an alternate route for shipping. It will be like another Suez Canal. Ships destined for the proposed 100-km (60-mile) Kra canal would have to pass through the channel between the Andaman and Nicobar island chains.
Now do you realise we will have a very large quantity of the world's shipping going through? Apart from the economic value, there is going to be an increasing requirement to ensure security of the world's shipping. And it is in this connection, that we are engaging our neighbours."

China is the biggest stake holder here. Of that there is no doubt. But is this canal arrangement something India could and should benefit from economically or is it a potential security threat and we should not encourage such proposals ??
Probably the highlighted part above is the reason why China hasn't been too pushy about it

Regards,
Virendra

 

[LETHALFORCE]

What do you people think about the proposals like Thai (Kra) Canal or rail road to cut through Thailand and relieve the straits of Malacca.
While it is something China obviously salivates upon but how good or bad is it for India?

Here's what an Indian General said at an interview after military exercise with Thailand in 2005.
"But the fact is that with things like the Kra canal, the Andaman and Nicobar islands will come into play."
"So then you have an alternate route for shipping. It will be like another Suez Canal. Ships destined for the proposed 100-km (60-mile) Kra canal would have to pass through the channel between the Andaman and Nicobar island chains.
Now do you realise we will have a very large quantity of the world's shipping going through? Apart from the economic value, there is going to be an increasing requirement to ensure security of the world's shipping. And it is in this connection, that we are engaging our neighbours."

China is the biggest stake holder here. Of that there is no doubt. But is this canal arrangement something India could and should benefit from economically or is it a potential security threat and we should not encourage such proposals ??
Probably the highlighted part above is the reason why China hasn't been too pushy about it

Regards,
Virendra

Any trade done by China will always have India as an obstacle. Ships still have to get to Thailand thru
the India ocean how does this solve anything??

 

[trackwhack]

not again, how many time i have to explain this.
look my previous post #127

all the satelite tracking stuff is tracking the transponder on ships, these transponder is volunteer info from the ships for peceatime, civilian, traffic purpose only, can be turn off or send false info. its useless if the ships decide not to be tracked/located/ or just send a false info. you think chinese cargo ships will willing allow enemy know their location etc etc. again do some research on modern ship transponder such as AIS, and its purpose, then youll know how easy that system can be manipulate. its not a military system, and its not for enemy to track their ships.

Dude, there is a simple procedure, any ship that shows up on radar will answer Indian Navy and verify their identity against openly available maritime shipping records. Those that dont will be stopped. And most of those will be Chinese. The ship will be deboarded and sunk.

Other Chinese merchant ships will then have to take a call on whether to keep cargo at ports and allow it to rot or take a chance with IN and sink? Or the PLAN will have to come to Malacca and get ripped to shreds. Irrespective of how many naval destroyers you have, you are sitting ducks at Malacca, your planes dont have the range to provide cover against the Flankers at Andaman and you on board SAM's on the destroyers are crap.

Malacca will be open for business when the PLA retreats several 100 km north of the LAC and declares a ceasefire.

 

[Adux]

What the noob from chicomland doesnt understand is, in the event of tension and war, every ship will switch on its 'voluntary' transponder to achieve safe passage through Indian Navy Controlled Oceans. Those who dont, and those who are suspicious will be stopped. A few will be sunk to even made an example off. Thats about it, the rest of the world of ships, will fall in line.


Regarding why would other countries cooperate, because a world without China or crippled China is better. India nor US or anybody else for that matter is going to war with China, unless the chicom pushes them that far, By that time, countries will resign to the fact, chicoms have to be taught a lesson or two. Who better than us, to do that.


Its better chicom gives us the surrender like one chicom poster claimed. China came with stapled visa, then pushed with PoK and Arunchal Pradesh issues, and then further pushed with string of pearls strategy. Within a span of two years, India came back with strategic defense agreements with South Korea, Singapore, USA, Japan and Vietnam. One with Australia is in the works and now exploratory talks with Taiwan. And then further came back with complete overhaul of its military infrastructure in Indo-China border, and increased its arsenal range and capability.

 

[s002wjh]

Dude, there is a simple procedure, any ship that shows up on radar will answer Indian Navy and verify their identity against openly available maritime shipping records. Those that dont will be stopped. And most of those will be Chinese. The ship will be deboarded and sunk.

Other Chinese merchant ships will then have to take a call on whether to keep cargo at ports and allow it to rot or take a chance with IN and sink? Or the PLAN will have to come to Malacca and get ripped to shreds. Irrespective of how many naval destroyers you have, you are sitting ducks at Malacca, your planes dont have the range to provide cover against the Flankers at Andaman and you on board SAM's on the destroyers are crap.

Malacca will be open for business when the PLA retreats several 100 km north of the LAC and declares a ceasefire.

right and who file those record? thats right the shipping company. so could china falsify the records etc, yes it can. you forgot ALL these info are volunteer given by ships and its shipping company. its ships captain and its company responsibility to transmit their location, and send their info to the maretime control, not the other way around.

 

[s002wjh]

What the noob from chicomland doesnt understand is, in the event of tension and war, every ship will switch on its 'voluntary' transponder to achieve safe passage through Indian Navy Controlled Oceans. Those who dont, and those who are suspicious will be stopped. A few will be sunk to even made an example off. Thats about it, the rest of the world of ships, will fall in line.


Regarding why would other countries cooperate, because a world without China or crippled China is better. India nor US or anybody else for that matter is going to war with China, unless the chicom pushes them that far, By that time, countries will resign to the fact, chicoms have to be taught a lesson or two. Who better than us, to do that.


Its better chicom gives us the surrender like one chicom poster claimed. China came with stapled visa, then pushed with PoK and Arunchal Pradesh issues, and then further pushed with string of pearls strategy. Within a span of two years, India came back with strategic defense agreements with South Korea, Singapore, USA, Japan and Vietnam. One with Australia is in the works and now exploratory talks with Taiwan. And then further came back with complete overhaul of its military infrastructure in Indo-China border, and increased its arsenal range and capability.

lol the transponder only tell the ships location, speed, it DOES NOT tell the destination, its like a GPS. furthermore, all records send by the shipping company and its captain are voluntary info. which can be falsify.

its for civilian useage, it wasn't meant to be used by military purpose. its was design for DIFFERENT purpose. it can be manipulated. anyway if you still thinks use a civilian transponder is good idea, i'm not gonna argue about it anymore

 

[trackwhack]

right and who file those record? thats right the shipping company. so could china falsify the records etc, yes it can. you forgot ALL these info are volunteer given by ships and its shipping company. its ships captain and its company responsibility to transmit their location, and send their info to the maretime control, not the other way around.

Man its simple, if the ship does not check out, it will be stopped. are you saying that all chinese cargo ships are gonna fool the IN. you are out of your freakin mind. even if 50 out of every 100 ships sneak past IN, you think thats awesome? you guys have a lower IQ than dodo's for sure.

 

[s002wjh]

Man its simple, if the ship does not check out, it will be stopped. are you saying that all chinese cargo ships are gonna fool the IN. you are out of your freakin mind. even if 50 out of every 100 ships sneak past IN, you think thats awesome? you guys have a lower IQ than dodo's for sure.

now you just talk none sense, and writing stupid uneducated words. on what info you gonna compare against whether its check out or not.
by the way i'm an american, last time i check US still leading the innovation stuff. judge by the stuff you just wrote i would say youre knowledge/iq is in fact "dodo"

 

[trackwhack]

now you just talk none sense, and writing stupid uneducated words. on what info you gonna compare against whether its check out or not.
by the way i'm an american, last time i check US still leading the innovation stuff. judge by the stuff you just wrote i would say youre knowledge/iq is in fact "dodo"

ok, so your argument is that all chinese merchant ships are going to fool the IN and get away. awesome.

and for the nth time, who gives a ---- if you run a 'shitty wok' in some 'china town' in some US city and call yourself american? you are still chinese. like I am an Indian.

 

[Adux]

lol the transponder only tell the ships location, speed, it DOES NOT tell the destination, its like a GPS. furthermore, all records send by the shipping company and its captain are voluntary info. which can be falsify.

its for civilian useage, it wasn't meant to be used by military purpose. its was design for DIFFERENT purpose. it can be manipulated. anyway if you still thinks use a civilian transponder is good idea, i'm not gonna argue about it anymore

More chicom, idioticy, a destination can easily found out, if the ship is located and registered. Why? Because that is how super heavy ships operate. We are not talking about the rubber dingy you used to get away from chicoms.

 

[Ray]

Lloyds Insurance will have the details of the cargo and its destination.

 

[Daredevil]

s002wjh,

read about "Automatic Identification System" (or AIS) to understand why it is easy for Indian Navy to track the cargos/tankers of Chinese origin or the ones destined to China.

Automatic Identification System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You can also track some ships using open source portals like these..

Live Ships Map - AIS - Vessel Traffic and Positions