China's vulnerability in Malacca Strait

[J20!]

And it is for this reason that India needs to get in with Vietnam and start drilling South China sea. And then pray that China does what it has been barking all this time. That will be a sure shot at getting the Japan, Korea, SE Asian nations along with US into an alliance.

Have you ever thought that no one would join you?

You wouldn't be able to hide behind the skirts of greater millitaries... All the nations you've mentioned have China as their biggest trading partner. The US and Europe both have China as their biggest trading partner. Japan too. And Korea, and most of the SE countries. Would they all risk the hundreds of millions of potential Chinese buyers for their goods? Would Japan risk their biggest financial crutch to their ailing economy? Would the Australians destroy their most profitable cash cow, the Chinese driven mining sector? Would the US give up its largest car market(Chinese buy more american cars than Americans do) among other huge Chinese markets for American goods and services? The cheap skilled labor that have kept up American enterprises during the recession?

Would the west most likely tank their economies to rescue India from a certain 1 on 1 defeat to China? The SE countries wouldn't stand by you, destroying their oh-so-profitable meal ticket with China. WE give them more aid than anyone else. We give them FAR MORE trade than anyone else. Would they risk facing China, even if they all band together? Would they impoverish their citizens for you? Would YOU feed them? Would YOU trade with them as much as we do? The fact is, none of those countries would go to war with China unless China was at war with them. Not one. Even the US. You'd be all alone with China in the ring... Praying for others to deliver you after provoking sleeping dragons would be futile... Simple reasoning. Swallow all that chest puffing and thumping and open your eyes.

 

[Adux]

if you keep insisting tag will work during war time, then fine, i'm done try to convincing you. the tag purpose is FOR CIVILIAN/PEACETIME use only. its easy to fake a tag indicate its from another country etc etc. the whole transponder purpose WAS not for blockade purpose, it wont work!!! i sugges you ask some expert about this.

if it was that easy US would stop N.korean ship to burma or Iran ships to other countries easily before etc etc. no, its not that easy it wasn't design for bloackade purpose, the transponder is volunteer info, there are tons loopholes in it to make military tracking useless.

There is no civilian and war time difference when it comes to tagging for ships. You are an idiot, if you think otherwise. What did you think, when war comes, ships will just switch of their transponder therefore increase a hit on their ships by armed vessels. It is easy to track ships, but it is not easy to get to ships in an open ocean. Two different things. Something that is negated when we are talking about large slow moving tankers and the whole fleet of Indian Navy in the IOR region.

 

[Adux]

What is more important than Trade and Money, - Existence. China is not respected but feared for the wrong reasons. It is only matter of time.

 

[Tolaha]

Have you ever thought that no one would join you?

You wouldn't be able to hide behind the skirts of greater millitaries... All the nations you've mentioned have China as their biggest trading partner. The US and Europe both have China as their biggest trading partner. Japan too. And Korea, and most of the SE countries. Would they all risk the hundreds of millions of potential Chinese buyers for their goods? Would Japan risk their biggest financial crutch to their ailing economy? Would the Australians destroy their most profitable cash cow, the Chinese driven mining sector? Would the US give up its largest car market(Chinese buy more american cars than Americans do) among other huge Chinese markets for American goods and services? The cheap skilled labor that have kept up American enterprises during the recession?

Would the west most likely tank their economies to rescue India from a certain 1 on 1 defeat to China? The SE countries wouldn't stand by you, destroying their oh-so-profitable meal ticket with China. WE give them more aid than anyone else. We give them FAR MORE trade than anyone else. Would they risk facing China, even if they all band together? Would they impoverish their citizens for you? Would YOU feed them? Would YOU trade with them as much as we do? The fact is, none of those countries would go to war with China unless China was at war with them. Not one. Even the US. You'd be all alone with China in the ring... Praying for others to deliver you after provoking sleeping dragons would be futile... Simple reasoning. Swallow all that chest puffing and thumping and open your eyes.

Wow.. so many questions. Does 'trade' stop wars?. World Wars have been fought between countries trading with each other. In fact, many believe that Germany went for war because it wasn't getting to trade enough.

Also, the idea that it is China that is feeding the nations of this world... this idea would take some time to digest! Anyways, all your neighbours are worried about China thanks to the attitude shown by the some of the Chinese. Already US has started getting Japan, India, Australia and ASEAN under a united front. CCP doing something stupid is all that it takes to seal the deal IMO.

 

[J20!]

What is more important than Trade and Money, - Existence. China is not respected but feared for the wrong reasons. It is only matter of time.

"What is more important" is the prosperity of your citizens. That's the motto of any non-retarded country(North Korea not included). Would they impoverish most of their citizen's lives for you? NO! Don't even deny it, you all know it makes more sense than unprovoked Japan, Europe, South Korea, Thailand, Malaysia, etc etc forfeiting the China driven world economy attacking China with no provocation, but on behalf of India. I even know for a fact that the Thai's cultivate closer relations to us than to you...

 

[J20!]

Wow.. so many questions. Does 'trade' stop wars?. World Wars have been fought between countries trading with each other. In fact, many believe that Germany went for war because it wasn't getting to trade enough.

World war I started because an Austrian heir was shot. World War II started because a mad man wanted to build himself a master race. The world has changed since those days..It's no longer about individual countries. Do you honestly believe that WW III is going to start because India had too much ego curry for dinner the night before and was feeling bullish towards China the next day and attacked? Then the whole UN would band together and destroy their biggest growth source, and one of the five? I know this is a DEFENSE forum, but stop looking at it from an armchair general perspective, and look at what you're saying through capitalist-tinted glasses.

 

[s002wjh]

There is no civilian and war time difference when it comes to tagging for ships. You are an idiot, if you think otherwise. What did you think, when war comes, ships will just switch of their transponder therefore increase a hit on their ships by armed vessels. It is easy to track ships, but it is not easy to get to ships in an open ocean. Two different things. Something that is negated when we are talking about large slow moving tankers and the whole fleet of Indian Navy in the IOR region.

its just show how little you understand ships transponder. and use of foul words only further lower your credibilities, your ignorance is unbelieveble.

The Automatic Identification System (AIS) is an automatic tracking system used on ships and by Vessel traffic services (VTS) for identifying and locating vessels by electronically exchanging data with other nearby ships and AIS Base stations. AIS information supplements marine radar, which continues to be the primary method of collision avoidance for water transport.

Automatic Identification System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

the system is a volunteer system operate onboard of vessel. its easily modified to send false info, or turn off etc.

 

[Tolaha]

"What is more important" is the prosperity of your citizens. That's the motto of any non-retarded country(North Korea not included). Would they impoverish most of their citizen's lives for you? NO! Don't even deny it, you all know it makes more sense than unprovoked Japan, Europe, South Korea, Thailand, Malaysia, etc etc forfeiting the China driven world economy attacking China with no provocation, but on behalf of India. I even know for a fact that the Thai's cultivate closer relations to us than to you...

Ofcourse there will be provocation from China! You got to give credit to CCP here, they tend to overdo themselves when the subject matter is 'provocation'. They have not shown to be the most mature kid in the block in the way they have been picking up fights lately, with Vietnam, India, Japan, US, Philippines and Korea!

 

[Tolaha]

World war I started because an Austrian heir was shot. World War II started because a mad man wanted to build himself a master race. The world has changed since those days..It's no longer about individual countries. Do you honestly believe that WW III is going to start because India had too much ego curry for dinner the night before and was feeling bullish towards China the next day and attacked? Then the whole UN would band together and destroy their biggest growth source, and one of the five? I know this is a DEFENSE forum, but stop looking at it from an armchair general perspective, and look at what you're saying through capitalist-tinted glasses.

The world never went to war for a single reason. The reasons that you said were mere triggers. The conditions or the prerequisites for a war had already been created. All that it required were a spark to light them all. Germany used to have robust trade with France and Britain before it went to war with them. One of the reasons were that countries were becoming protectionist at the expense of Germans. The kind of simplistic reasoning that you propose, is enough to clear your primary or maybe high school history subject at the max!

Just happened to find the right stuff for an "armchair general"!
Read this: http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/copeland.htm

 

[J20!]

Ofcourse there will be provocation from China! You got to give credit to CCP here, they tend to overdo themselves when the subject matter is 'provocation'. They have not shown to be the most mature kid in the block in the way they have been picking up fights lately, with Vietnam, India, Japan, US, Philippines and Korea!

What provocation exactly? Would Vietnam declare war with China because Chinese coast guard vessels cut a foreign company's survey lines? Would Japan launch airstrikes on Beijing, Shanghai, Dalian, HongKong, (incidentally some of the biggest beams supporting the Japanese economic crutch that is the Chinese economy) because a fisherman rammed their coast guard vessels? And why exactly would the US cripple their economy and the world's economy at large by attacking us? Because we wont let them buy rare earths from us? Because we wont let the Yuan appreciate against the dollar freely? What exactly would Korea launch a war with us over? They are more likely to fight japan over the Dokdo island that go to full scale war with China....There are many reasons that would spur a country into forgetting their welfare and livelihoods for war, but non of the above or any of the conflicts between China and your list of countries count among them.

*tilting head side-ways* Do you see how your theory is full of holes?

 

[Tolaha]

What provocation exactly? Would Vietnam declare war with China because Chinese coast guard vessels cut a foreign company's survey lines? Would Japan launch airstrikes on Beijing, Shanghai, Dalian, HongKong, (incidentally some of the biggest beams supporting the Japanese economic crutch that is the Chinese economy) because a fisherman rammed their coast guard vessels? And why exactly would the US cripple their economy and the world's economy at large by attacking us? Because we wont let them buy rare earths from us? Because we wont let the Yuan appreciate against the dollar freely? What exactly would Korea launch a war with us over? They are more likely to fight japan over the Dokdo island that go to full scale war with China....There are many reasons that would spur a country into forgetting their welfare and livelihoods for war, but non of the above or any of the conflicts between China and your list of countries count among them.

*tilting head side-ways* Do you see how your theory is full of holes?

China has gone to wars with countries for far sillier reasons. Most of Mao's wars were to massage his ego and nothing else. But that still didn't stop PLA from following Mao's orders. Are you claiming that leaders of other countries are far more mature when compared to China's !?

 

[J20!]

The world never went to war for a single reason. The reasons that you said were mere triggers. The conditions or the prerequisites for a war had already been created. All that it required were a spark to light them all. Germany used to have robust trade with France and Britain before it went to war with them. One of the reasons were that countries were becoming protectionist at the expense of Germans. The kind of simplistic reasoning that you propose, is enough to clear your primary or maybe high school history subject at the max!

Don't be immature. World war 2 started because Hitler was quite clearly mad. Would it have started if one of the many assassination attempts against him had succeeded? If he'd not lusted for the whole of Europe under German rule? Would WW1 have started if the Kaizer Wilhelm had not been on Germany's throne? World War 3 is not going to be started by a single man's ambition as in the previous two. The world is much more multi-polar today than it was then, and with China wielding almost everyone of note in their pocket, and most importantly being one of the five, its hard to see you "world against china scenario".

 

[Tolaha]

Don't be immature. World war 2 started because Hitler was quite clearly mad. Would it have started if one of the many assassination attempts against him had succeeded? If he'd not lusted for the whole of Europe under German rule? Would WW1 have started if the Kaizer Wilhelm had not been on Germany's throne? World War 3 is not going to be started by a single man's ambition as in the previous two. The world is much more multi-polar today than it was then, and with China wielding almost everyone of note in their pocket, and most importantly being one of the five, its hard to see you "world against china scenario".

You are so full of questions!

As earlier, my question to you, which is in fact, a reply to your questions! Would the Germans have backed Hitler to go into a war if they had large, resource rich land/territory like the British or the Russians?

"China 'wielding' everyone of note in their pockets" is an interesting statement. CCP's media wing needs to be lauded for doing its job really well!

 

[J20!]

China has gone to wars with countries for far sillier reasons. Most of Mao's wars were to massage his ego and nothing else. But that still didn't stop PLA from following Mao's orders. Are you claiming that leaders of other countries are far more mature when compared to China's !?

I don't agree, but because I honestly don't want to spend anymore time arguing with you, let's say, for arguments sake, that Mao pushed the westerners back in Korea because he felt like it the morning he made that decision to attack the allies approaching China's borders with the Koreans. The CPC has moved on from Mao's day. Its no longer about the individual, The Premier couldn't just launch a war because he'd had bad Indian the day before and felt like making India pay for it. I don't know what you know about it, but the CPC is an enormous organisation, that doesn't just pop ideas out and act on 'em, There'd be a lot of selling and convincing to be done for a major decision like war to be made. As applies to every country, even India. That's why I know that a war launched by India or China against each other is the most minute of possibilities.

 

[J20!]

You are so full of questions!

As earlier, my question to you, which is in fact, a reply to your questions! Would the Germans have backed Hitler to go into a war if they had large, resource rich land/territory like the British or the Russians?

"China 'wielding' everyone of note in their pockets" is an interesting statement. CCP's media wing needs to be lauded for doing its job really well!

And you still haven't answered almost all of them. Your thoughts are flawed at best and at worst are just childish.

Actually yes... Hitler was their supreme leader and was loved by almost all non-Jewish Germans. There is no "supreme leader" in China who is worshiped by all as Hitler was, Mao and most of his principles died a long time ago.

China is by far the largest growth source in the world's economy. Without it, the world economy would plunge into a major recession. Look it up if you don't believe me. In Asia, China is the source of growth to most economies, and its economy is vital to almost all its neighbors economic well being, including Japan and both the Korea's AND Vietnam. The Europeans are in no state to destroy their economic, and political ties with China. We're much more vital to them, and most importantly to Germany, than India will be in a long time if ever at all.

I obviously cant reason with you, so I'll just hope that others here are more reasonable than you are mon ami.

 

[trackwhack]

J20, all your posts are saying the same thing. That no one will be willing to pay the economic and political price for messing with China. If thats the case, what is stopping China from marching into Arunachal. Lets see if your ships pass through Malacca and lets see if your trading partners stop India from hammering you.

Understand this, if India and China are in a war, the US will just sit back and watch the fun, so will Japan and Australia and all other nations. If you think your trade with them is going to get these countries to arm twist India into opening up Malacca, you are plain dumb. The west will watch us put each other to waste and will be thrilled with the damage India does to your trade. It will give a serious boost to their domestic productivity and revitalize their industries

 

[J20!]

J20, all your posts are saying the same thing. That no one will be willing to pay the economic and political price for messing with China. If thats the case, what is stopping China from marching into Arunachal. Lets see if your ships pass through Malacca and lets see if your trading partners stop India from hammering you.

Understand this, if India and China are in a war, the US will just sit back and watch the fun, so will Japan and Australia and all other nations. If you think your trade with them is going to get these countries to arm twist India into opening up Malacca, you are plain dumb. The west will watch us put each other to waste and will be thrilled with the damage India does to your trade. It will give a serious boost to their domestic productivity and revitalize their industries

I never said they'd help China in any way, I said THEY WOULDN'T STAND WITH INDIA. It wont be a world vs China event like many here wish. Just an India vs China scenario. Maybe Pakistan would be involved but the US, Japan or even the SE countries wouldn't ride to your rescue.

Thrilled that any Chinese economic disaster would be met with for example, the crash of the automobile industry, a major decline of the mining industry, the construction industry, the steel industry, the rare earth's industry, the electronics industry etc etc, with wild rises in prices for commodities and the collapse of many international corporations? Generally the meltdown of many of their economies? Yeah, I'm sure they'd be celebrating. You're a regular Einstein..

I'm not saying India couldn't blockade the Malacca straits, but with the combination of the disturbance of INTERNATIONAL TRADE (and the international objection to this) and PLAN. PLANAF and PLAAF operations in that area, such a blockade wouldn't last more than a week. You'd be disturbing and/or jeopardizing the busy sea lanes not only operated by us, but by every SE country, Japan, Korea, Russia, the States, the Europeans, Saudis etc etc. Forcibly boarding and searching ships in international and sovereign waters? You'd be the new Somali pirates.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

I never said they'd help China in any way, I said THEY WOULDN'T STAND WITH INDIA. It wont be a world vs China event like many here wish. Just an India vs China scenario. Maybe Pakistan would be involved but the US, Japan or even the SE countries wouldn't ride to your rescue.

Thrilled that any Chinese decline would be met with for example, the crash of the automobile industry, a major decline of the mining industry, the construction industry, the steel industry, the rare earth's industry, the electronics industry etc etc, with wild rises in prices for commodities and the collapse of many international corporations? Generally the meltdown of many of their economies. Yeah, you're a regular Einstein..

India will always be part of any anti-chinese alliance it is doubtful India would act alone
but join others fighting against China as a part of an alliance. (It is doubtful India would need
assistance for a blockade I am sure it could be handled alone) While it is doubtful
China will ever get out of the South China sea in a scenario with an alliance. A war
by USA against China would be welcomed and probably certain to happen for one
simple reason USA will never pay the debt back to China and a war would be the best
make the debt go away.


http://askville.amazon.com/default-national-debt/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=8003572


Why can't we just default on our national debt?

 

[nimo_cn]

Jesus Christ, it is 5:37 in the morning, let me end this.

China will be strangled to death by India, period.

Now get some sleep, people.

 

[J20!]

India will always be part of any anti-chinese alliance it is doubtful India would act alone
but join others fighting against China as a part of an alliance. (It is doubtful India would need
assistance for a blockade I am sure it could be handled alone) While it is doubtful
China will ever get out of the South China sea in a scenario with an alliance. A war
by USA against China would be welcomed and probably certain to happen for one
simple reason USA will never pay the debt back to China and a war would be the best
make the debt go away.

What alliance? With who? You're all just saying the US will attack China for some reason... Give the reason. All these "we're going to band together and kill you all" fantasies aren't giving any justification for the dire economic consequences of any US led Asian coalition to destroy China. Are you so insecure that you're scrambling for people to help you attack China? If all this bravado and chest thumping is to be believed, why is no one talking about an India vs China war, not the "everyone will help us defeat you" fest this thread is turning into?