China Economy: News & Discussion

[SexyChineseLady]

Foreignpolicy.com drives leftist ideas and narratives. CCP uses the platform with covert fundings. Many Indian journos are funded by CCP which is not a secret anymore. India is cutting the China chord for sure. The depth of the cut is yet to be seen.

You guys are so strange! You say China has a failed economy. Then how can it fund all these Indian journos (and 80% of the world's HSR and whole cities that no one needs and entire EV industrial chain and 20+ turbofan programs, etc, etc.) with no real money? Why all this contradictory magical thinking?

 

[SexyChineseLady]

An example of a major new economic driver in China where there is need for civilian aircraft turbofan engines.

But the cost of investment is so great that even immensely wealthy and industrially advanced nations like Japan, South Korea and Germany cannot afford to get into the market.

China has a plethora of civil engines that will eventually grab a massive market just in China alone:

CJ1000A

CJ2000

AEF1300

Can your country afford such projects?

 

[Azaad]

An example of a major new economic driver in China where there is need for civilian aircraft turbofan engines.

But the cost of investment is so great that even immensely wealthy and industrially advanced nations like Japan, South Korea and Germany cannot afford to get into the market.

China has a plethora of civil engines that will eventually grab a massive market just in China alone:

CJ1000A
View attachment 219706

CJ2000
View attachment 219707

AEF1300
View attachment 219708

Can your country afford such projects?

Forget India affording such projects. Come back here when you've half a dozen countries who've purchased your civilian aircraft.

I've written here often tagging you too that India's a 4 trillion USD economy . China began those projects around the same time you had a 4 trillion USD economy . You're just seeing the fruits of that investment now after lots of twists & turns viz Xu Yanjun etc . Thanks to your shenanigans we've received massive inputs to mfg the F-414 TF in India alongwith proprietary know how & know why . We didn't have to indulge in espionage & other skullduggery you often do. Thanks once again. Do keep up such activities . In the long run it helps us achieve our goals EFFORTLESSLY.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Forget India affording such projects. Come back here when you've half a dozen countries who've purchased your civilian aircraft.

I've written here often tagging you too that India's a 4 trillion USD economy . China began those projects around the same time you had a 4 trillion USD economy . You're just seeing the fruits of that investment now after lots of twists & turns viz Xu Yanjun etc . Thanks to your shenanigans we've received massive inputs to mfg the F-414 TF in India alongwith proprietary know how & know why . We didn't have to indulge in espionage & other skullduggery you often do. Thanks once again. Do keep up such activities . In the long run it helps us achieve our goals EFFORTLESSLY.

1) F414 is a mil engine, China has too many of those! WS-10, WS-13, WS-15, WS-19, WS-11, WS-9, WS-17, etc. Also, WS-10 is already on hundreds of frontline J-10C, J-20, J-16, J-11B and new J-15 variants

2) F414 is also foreign so it is no different from your AL-31 deal with Russians. But we'll see when it actually happens!

At any rate, very few countries can afford even one military aircraft turbofan which is immensely expensive and hard but even that is nowhere as expensive and difficult as civil turbofans with its intense safety and reliability requirements!

You should talk to us when you can afford to fund your first civil turbofan

The C919/CJ1000, ARJ-21/CJ500 and C929/CJ2000 combinations will be massive economic drivers for China in the coming years. Most countries will be spending $$$ on foreign airliners and engines with little recuperation of that money

 

[SexyChineseLady]

What is your nation's economic driver?

This is just one of China's many

 

[Azaad]

1) F414 is a mil engine, China has too many of those! WS-10, WS-13, WS-15, WS-19, WS-11, WS-9, WS-17, etc. Also, WS-10 is already on hundreds of frontline J-10C, J-20, J-16, J-11B and new J-15 variants

2) F414 is also foreign so it is no different from your AL-31 deal with Russians. But we'll see when it actually happens!

At any rate, very few countries can afford even one military aircraft turbofan which is immensely expensive and hard but even that is nowhere as expensive and difficult as civil turbofans with its intense safety and reliability requirements!

You should talk to us when you can afford to fund your first civil turbofan

The C919/CJ1000, ARJ-21/CJ500 and C929/CJ2000 combinations will be massive economic drivers for China in the coming years. Most countries will be spending $$$ on foreign airliners and engines with little recuperation of that money

1.) China has plenty of those. But how many has it exported & to whom ? What's its track record ? As far F-414 being a TF with military applications go , how else did you build up your civilian aircraft TF ?

2.) FYI , the entire AL-31 is now being built from scratch at HAL Koraput. So we've mastered all the tech needed to build an fully indigenous AL-31 TF derivative like you did. But that's where we differ from you . We play by the rules. You don't. End of the day we get rewarded coz of 2 reasons both equally important : we play by the rules & since you don't we get rewarded to punish you.

3.) Wrong. Building a new TF for military applications from scratch is a much more demanding enterprise. If you master that , it's relatively easier building up a TF for civilian applications for the former is a low bypass TF & the latter is a high bypass TF. Read up more before commenting out here.

4.) Right now we're in the process of negotiating a JV to develop a 120 KN TF for our AMCA Mk-2 program with GE , RR &:SAFRAN . Once that product comes thru you'd see a lot of spin off & derivatives including TFs with civilian applications. Do you know why we'd be getting the tech just like we're getting the tech for F-414. Once again it's China & Xu Yanjun.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

1.) China has plenty of those. But how many has it exported & to whom ? What's its track record ? As far F-414 being a TF with military applications go , how else did you build up your civilian aircraft TF ?

2.) FYI , the entire AL-31 is now being built from scratch at HAL Koraput. So we've mastered all the tech needed to build an fully indigenous AL-31 TF derivative like you did. But that's where we differ from you . We play by the rules. You don't. End of the day we get rewarded coz of 2 reasons both equally important : we play by the rules & since you don't we get rewarded to punish you.

3.) Wrong. Building a new TF from scratch is a much more demanding enterprise. If you master that , it's relatively easier building up a TF for civilian applications for the former is a low bypass TF & the latter is a high bypass TF. Read up more before commenting out here.

4.) Right now we're in the process of negotiating a JV to develop a 120 KN TF for our AMCA Mk-2 program with GE , RR &:SAFRAN . Once that product comes thru you'd see a lot of spin off & derivatives including TFs with civilian applications. Do you know why we'd be getting the tech just like we're getting the tech for F-414. Once again it's China & Xu Yanjun.

How did you get rewarded? You have no indigenous engine on any plane at all!

I wonder about your Indian magical thinking. How can China be so full of shenanigans but Airbus trusts China with an FAL but not India? How can China with a fake/failed economy afford all these turbofan programs including immensely expensive civil ones when India with the third largest economy by PPP can only afford just one military one (Kaveri?)

But truth is the WS-10 or F414 means little in the more important commercial world. High bypass engines like the WS-20 is far more relevant:

So you can talk a little more once you start funding a high bypass turbofan project.

But still it is nothing compared to a civil engine like the CJ1000/2000/500

 

[Azaad]

How did you get rewarded? You have no indigenous engine on any plane at all!

I wonder about your Indian magical thinking. How can China be so full of shenanigans but Airbus trusts China with an FAL but not India? How can China with a fake/failed economy afford all these turbofan programs including immensely expensive civil ones when India with the third largest economy by PPP can only afford just one military one (Kaveri?)

But truth is the WS-10 or F414 means little in the more important commercial world. High bypass engines like the WS-20 is far more relevant:
View attachment 219716

So you can talk a little more once you start funding a high bypass turbofan project.

But still it is nothing compared to a civil engine like the CJ1000/2000/500

View attachment 219715

I used to think the problem was BAIDU TRANSLATE . I think it's still a problem though not as much as the person using it . Tell me , Is passing Gaokao a pre requisite to recruitment into the MSS or have they lowered their already low standards ? Put another way , did you pass your Gaokao examination ? You can tell me & I promise to keep the information confidential.

What did you understand by the statement India is where China was when it was a 4 trillion USD economy ? Did you have an indigenous TF then ? Further which part of we're negotiating for a JV with RR , SAFRAN & GE for a 120 KN TF for our AMCA Mk-2 program & upon development of the same with our JV partner we'd have spin offs & derivatives including TFs for civilian applications , didn't you get ? Do you want me to translate the entire post in Google Translate ?

Furthermore , if we wanted to get into a JV for TF development with Russia we'd have done so long ago . That we didn't should tell you what we think of Russian TFs. On the other hand you didn't have a choice but copy Russian TFs & indulge in espionage of the Xu Yanjun type. That's why I wrote we're getting rewarded for playing by the rules , since you don't play by the rules ever .

All your TFs are derivatives of the AL-31 in either up rated & downrated versions , a TF we've been manufacturing in house since the past 15 years with more than 95% being mfg from raw material stage in house. The remaining 5% can be mfd in house too except we've an agreement with Russia which we're honouring & which you never do.

As far as the FAL with Airbus goes , it's simply a function of control over the economy apart from the scale of the economy itself . The CCP exercises total control over your aviation business & decides who gets to buy what , something the Government of India doesn't , which is why CCP could leverage it's scale of economy to pressurise Airbus to set up the FAL in China which Govt of India can't as it doesn't control the purchasing decisions of private airliners. That's an advantage China enjoys .

The downside of such overarching control can be seen in the treatment of Jack Ma & the Ant Group apart from several other such entities & officials. Qin Gang is the latest example which comes to mind. Hope the poor chap is alive. Plus there's geo politics involved which is why you selected Airbus as Boeing would definitely not oblige.

Finally pls come up with a high bypass TF & then try to convert it into a low bypass TF minus a few compressors & turbines instead of the other way around & you'd know what I'm talking about , which is why I've asked you to read up more. It's USUALLY NEVER ALWAYS development of low bypass TFs which lead to development of high bypass TFs & not the other way around. This isn't to say that development of a high bypass TF is cakewalk. Pls understand nuance. Wonder if there's an equivalent word for it in Mandarin.

 

[brational]

You guys are so strange! You say China has a failed economy. Then how can it fund all these Indian journos (and 80% of the world's HSR and whole cities that no one needs and entire EV industrial chain and 20+ turbofan programs, etc, etc.) with no real money? Why all this contradictory magical thinking?

Exactly my point. It is called debt my sexy lady. $51T is no joke. CCP Used the money to artifically inflate your growth story by making Ghost Towns, Bullet trains with no passengers, BRI with entrapment in mind rather than business growth and development and so on.

Are you so naive or pretending to be one?

Your CCP has enough money looted from the gullible Chinks by showing growth stories like real-estate and PonziSchemes. Now the Chinks have become pennyless. Country is under deflation. The Mess is so huge that CCP is not confident whether any sort of stimulus will guarantee revival.

CCP care a shiiet about the wellbeing of the Chinks. They have killed more Chinese in the name of the Great Frog Jump than the people died during WW 1 & 2 put together.

Only thing that CCP care about is the image. CCP has been spending hell lot of money to preserve that image for decades through sponsored media, SM platforms, intervention in internal matters of other countries. CCP will wage wars if they find out the truth is getting out in the open thats why all sort of draconian laws and censorships are applied on the Chinks in CCPland. They will keep on spending money even if Chinks die of starvation. Payout of 2 cents per post is no exception. Chinks are doomed under CCP.

 

[nongaddarliberal]

People are consuming a lot more in China than anywhere in the world right now -- travel, food, movies, etc.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/08/22/business/popeyes-china-expansion-intl-hnk/index.html

Hilton bets on China’s middle class as it eyes 730 hotels in next 10 years

Hilton plans to open more than 730 hotels in China in the next 10 years after opening 100 properties last year, as it bets on surging demand from the nation’s middle class, senior executive Clarence Tan says.

www.scmp.com

What is the Chinese metric for middle class vs low income? If the Chinese middle class is 400 million, are the remaining 1 billion classified as low income? What are official Chinese stats on this?

 

[brational]

How did you get rewarded? You have no indigenous engine on any plane at all!

I wonder about your Indian magical thinking. How can China be so full of shenanigans but Airbus trusts China with an FAL but not India? How can China with a fake/failed economy afford all these turbofan programs including immensely expensive civil ones when India with the third largest economy by PPP can only afford just one military one (Kaveri?)

But truth is the WS-10 or F414 means little in the more important commercial world. High bypass engines like the WS-20 is far more relevant:
View attachment 219716

So you can talk a little more once you start funding a high bypass turbofan project.

But still it is nothing compared to a civil engine like the CJ1000/2000/500

View attachment 219715

No we haven't made a successful Jet Engine as yet. We will have it for sure. Fact of the matter is, we don't steal tech from others and claim it to be ours. We follow and respect IPR laws, tech transfer deals. We dont compel Indian employees working in foreign tech companies to steal designs and secrets. We believe in cooperation and coexistence.

CHinks on the other hand are thieves, violators of International laws, shameless spies. All those Jet Engines, Bullet Train tech, space tech, Chip, processors, super computers, electrronics, radars and everything that CCP claims to be theirs, are based on stolen tech & designs . Chinks even steal/copy designs of Indian cars and bikes, shameful isn't it?. So STFU and find a forum in countries like Pakistan, Bangladesh, North Korea etc to boast about your achievements. We will call out your fake stories & fake achievements here.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Exactly my point. It is called debt my sexy lady. $51T is no joke. CCP Used the money to artifically inflate your growth story by making Ghost Towns, Bullet trains with no passengers, BRI with entrapment in mind rather than business growth and development and so on.

This is the dumbest magical thinking imaginable.

Which magical global bank did China go to get this $51T loan? Why can't poor countries simply borrow from this magical bank to fund useful projects and became developed nations?

This is the reality: High debt is available only if your economy can support it, most countries cannot generate even a tiny percentage of debt that China (and Japan, the US and Europe) can without collapsing their financial system -- never mind outbuilding the world in this kind of scale:

On top of that China has very little external loans so the money is not borrowed from and owed to someone else. The loans are generated by China's own economy.

These are the countries with the biggest external loan burden and they are all developed nations:

China actually could do better and generate more debt like the US and Japan!

 

[SexyChineseLady]

No we haven't made a successful Jet Engine as yet. We will have it for sure. Fact of the matter is, we don't steal tech from others and claim it to be ours. We follow and respect IPR laws, tech transfer deals. We dont compel Indian employees working in foreign tech companies to steal designs and secrets. We believe in cooperation and coexistence.

CHinks on the other hand are thieves, violators of International laws, shameless spies. All those Jet Engines, Bullet Train tech, space tech, Chip, processors, super computers, electrronics, radars and everything that CCP claims to be theirs, are based on stolen tech & designs . Chinks even steal/copy designs of Indian cars and bikes, shameful isn't it?. So STFU and find a forum in countries like Pakistan, Bangladesh, North Korea etc to boast about your achievements. We will call out your fake stories & fake achievements here.

Nothing but silly and cope-heavy racial slurs. You do not have a successful engine because you can only afford one project (Kaveri) and it is not successful. You people were telling me that you have all the required skills from building the AL-31 then the only reason is the lack of money.

China with its supposedly fake economy could afford many many many many more engine projects. The WS-6 and WS-8 (Y-10) that failed and then all the modern ones with the WS-9 (JH-7) to WS-10 to WS-13 to WS-15 to WS-19 to WS-20 that succeeded.

It is obvious who has the real economy just from these critical projects for national security. Countries WILL have them if they have the skills and money. You tell me India have the skills so the problem must be the lack of money

Now the real economic driver would be the civilian turbofan. This is what bring another industry to China.

This, my friend, is the CJ1000A civilian turbofan designed for the C919. It is being tested on a Y-20 Flying Testbed:

Is your national economy able to afford:

1) its own large transport jet program like the Y-20?

2) its own FTB? China has the Y-20 FTB AND a IL-76FTB

3) its own jet airliner program like the C919?

4) And its own civilian turbofan like the CJ1000A?

All these are major factors in creating a massive Chinese industrial base in aviation! Another huge Chinese economic driver in its future.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

The CJ1000 is a clean sheet high bypass design that doesn't depend on the core of a previous engine like the WS-20 (or SF-A, AEF1300) that was derived from the WS-10 family

China’s newest turbofan is making flying hours |

China's newest turbofan is making flying hours. The AECC CJ-1000A that will power the COMAC C919 has been spotted flight testing

airinsight.com

CJ1000 begins a new family that includes the CJ2000 for C929 and CJ500 for ARJ-21.

Can your national economy afford a clean sheet civilian turbofan family after (if) you get a working mil engine?

Can you build out an aero-engine industry with an engine in every weight class?

Can your economy afford a regional jet program like the ARJ-21?

Or a wide-body program like the C929 to go along with a narrow-body like the C919?

There are literally $trillions at stake here with money that can be spent building your own industry -- or building someone else's

 

[brational]

Nothing but silly and cope-heavy racial slurs. You do not have a successful engine because you can only afford one project (Kaveri) and it is not successful. You people were telling me that you have all the required skills from building the AL-31 then the only reason is the lack of money.

China with its supposedly fake economy could afford many many many many more engine projects. The WS-6 and WS-8 (Y-10) that failed and then all the modern ones with the WS-9 (JH-7) to WS-10 to WS-13 to WS-15 to WS-19 to WS-20 that succeeded.

It is obvious who has the real economy just from these critical projects for national security. Countries WILL have them if they have the skills and money. You tell me India have the skills so the problem must be the lack of money

Now the real economic driver would be the civilian turbofan. This is what bring another industry to China.

This, my friend, is the CJ1000A civilian turbofan designed for the C919. It is being tested on a Y-20 Flying Testbed:
View attachment 219741

Is your national economy able to afford:

1) its own large transport jet program like the Y-20?

2) its own FTB? China has the Y-20 FTB AND a IL-76FTB

3) its own jet airliner program like the C919?

4) And its own civilian turbofan like the CJ1000A?

All these are major factors in creating a massive Chinese industrial base in aviation! Another huge Chinese economic driver in its future.

All engines you named and call it a success! These are the result of theft case. Chinese engines are not at all efficient. They offer much lower engine life. Produces below par engine thrust. Too many programmes without perfecting a single one cant be termed as a success. You people can't even reverse engineer. Height of boasting fake achievements.

India is working on far advanced Jet engine and older tech AL 31 doesn't fit the future requirements.

YouR Y 20 is another junk with poor availability rate and other performance issues.

India does not want to get into commercial aircraft manufacturing, we are contributing in Boeing and AB already.

Your commercial aircraft venture will pose as another burden on CCP.

Nepal is a fine example of your Junk Commercial Aircraft project.

So Chill, your success driven crisis not admirable to us.

We do what needs to be done with cost optimization, regulatory norms, sustainability, benefits for all with the highest integrity. We don't take up projects unnecessarily. Ask 11 Jinping, he will confirm the same.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Much coping talk when India have no engine able to power planes and all you people need to contend with is Nepal and Bangladesh

PLAAF/PLANAF need to deal with first rate powers every day -- and wear them down

Chinese J-16 and J-11B with WS-10s are able to exert pressure on RoC F-16s and JSDAF F-15s with their imported American F100 engines like that no other air forces had to face!

Chinese turbofans are proven by extreme real world usage.

Remember, every time the RoC or Japan scrambles a F-16 or F-16J or F-2 with their American engines, there could be 5 or 10 or 27 or 54 Chinese planes coming at them with WS-10s or WS-18s!

Japan's air force faces a 'relentless' burden, imposed by China

Japanese fighter pilot Lt. Col. Takamichi Shirota says his country is under increasing pressure from the air. Analysts say it's a pressure faced by few other nations.

amp.cnn.com

Taiwan scrambles fighters to see off Chinese warplanes as Xi meets top brass

Taiwan's air force scrambled again on Sunday to warn away 27 Chinese aircraft that entered its air defense zone, Taiwan's Defense Ministry said, the latest increase in tensions across the Taiwan Strait as China's President met his top generals.

amp.cnn.com

 

[SexyChineseLady]

You would not do this unless you have a pair of very reliable WS-10 engines

You Indians always taking big and bad about Chinese engines and hoping so badly Chinese planes fall out of the skies with "unreliable"engines.

Sorry, there are literally THOUSANDS of intercepts and other interactions between Chinese aircraft and USN, USAF, RoC, Japanese and RoK planes. And no Chinese planes simply drop out of the sky on Chinese engines. And Chinese planes usually outnumber the other side many times over

 

[SexyChineseLady]

What is the Chinese metric for middle class vs low income? If the Chinese middle class is 400 million, are the remaining 1 billion classified as low income? What are official Chinese stats on this?

This is why China can spend and consume much more than even Americans in everything:

 

[skywatcher]

View attachment 219795

This is why China can spend and consume much more than even Americans in everything:
View attachment 219796

CCP cadres and their family members contribute a lot

Xi's anti-graft campaign should continue.

 

[skywatcher]

CCP cadres and their family members contribute a lotView attachment 219804
Xi's anti-graft campaign should continue.

CCP cadres, CCP entrepreneurs and CCP intellectuals are already filthy rich.
There's not much left for the working class. Socialism is dead in PRC.