China Economy: News & Discussion

[AnantS]

Don't get mad at me. I was not judgingView attachment 205252

same here.. jus spitting facts

 

[skywatcher]

Don't ask why the Chinese can't do it



Even aliens can't do that

Can anyone do a correlation analysis(or other methods from multivariate statistics) on the level of pollution and the index of holiness of a mother river.

 

[AnantS]

Can anyone do a correlation analysis(or other methods from multivariate statistics) on the level of pollution and the index of holiness of a mother river.View attachment 205253

Are you saying in China the more likely you revere your mother as holy - more like she is polluted? Given poor female / male ratio - I guess this must be true and one of many consequences of cultural revolution.
Atleast females get to have fun, while males can sulk on urine soaked eggs

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

You know the mindset of some people from some countries(not just western countries), when it comes to pollution, Ganges River comes to mindView attachment 205247Maybe it's not the most polluted river in the world but you know the preconceptions and stereotypeView attachment 205249some people argue that it's a tradition, anyway, you probably know more than me on this.View attachment 205250

Most of them probably watched one of the vice documentaries or read some global fraud NGO report who publish misinformation to get donations. Ganga is a lot cleaner than most rivers in China and India’s neighbors. You have no idea how toxic the Yangtze is. With excessive shipping traffic, the Chinese have killed off one of their largest ecosystems. The fish jump out of the Chinese rivers as they suffocate due to lack of dissolved oxygen. Meanwhile in Ganga ji, river dolphin population is increasing. Indian cities are still a lot less toxic than Chinese cities. You can see birds and flora/fauna thriving in Indian cities. Mumbai has the largest nature reserve in the world in the middle of a city. Chinese cities are concrete jungles with no lung space. Every small piece of land is auctioned off by local governments to maximize revenues and builders like Evergrande build rows and rows of ugly apartment buildings that most Chinese cannot even afford.
China is one crazy, dystopian, polluted, zombie society where thousands of people are executed every year and their organs harvested for transplants into elite party officials.
You have no idea of the horrors of the CCP. They can go to any extreme. I just hope we don’t witness a Nazi like holocaust on Jews now done on the poor Chinese peasants. They are already being pushed to the wall by CCP’s disastrous policies - any human can only take so much. They are going to break at some point and cause mass riots.
‘The poorest Chinese live in much more horrific conditions than the poorest in India live. The poorest Chinese are literally treated like animals and are disposable items. Really disgusting

 

[rockdog]

Also Hong Kong at 17 is far above the US at 28.

Russia at #2 is very interesting and will be more so in the future as they are transitioning to Chinese systems under Western embargo!

The EV booming in China created around 600,000 high paid jobs (more than 60,000USD per year). I think at least 50% are software engineers.

The German department of Volkswagen’s Cariad company has been disbanded, but the Chinese department of cariad has not laid off anyone at all. It also has a joint venture with Horizon Company to develop autonomous driving software and hardware, and a joint venture with Chuangda, which specializes in writing automotive software codes.

I feel that cariad China will replace cariad The parent company, it is estimated that cariad China will expand its scale crazily this year (including the two joint venture companies). It was originally said that cariad company will have 600 employees → 1,000 this year, but I looked at it and added these two joint venture companies, it is obviously 600 People → 3,000 people, I feel that there will be 5,000 people next year, completely replacing the 5,000 people who have just been disbanded in Germany.

 

[ym888]

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Are you saying in China the more likely you revere your mother as holy - more like she is polluted? Given poor female / male ratio - I guess this must be true and one of many consequences of cultural revolution.
Atleast females get to have fun, while males can sulk on urine soaked eggs

You do know that India has the same issues with gender ratio as China and has more polluted cities though it has a lot less industry?

I'm sorry but China's pollution is an inevitable result of its GDP which is by most measures of consumption (cars, electricity, travel, pork, beer, etc.) is much larger than the US. China consumes (and enjoys life) almost twice as much as America never mind India.

As far as gender is concerned, to be perfectly honest I see no shortage of young women every time I visited. We are everywhere in the offices, shops and venues working and playing. All day and all night too!

And perfectly safe wherever we go at whatever the hour and wearing whatever we like -- and in subtropical Guangzhou and Shenzhen that is usually very little

 

[SexyChineseLady]

The EV booming in China created around 600,000 high paid jobs (more than 60,000USD per year). I think at least 50% are software engineers.

The German department of Volkswagen’s Cariad company has been disbanded, but the Chinese department of cariad has not laid off anyone at all. It also has a joint venture with Horizon Company to develop autonomous driving software and hardware, and a joint venture with Chuangda, which specializes in writing automotive software codes.

I feel that cariad China will replace cariad The parent company, it is estimated that cariad China will expand its scale crazily this year (including the two joint venture companies). It was originally said that cariad company will have 600 employees → 1,000 this year, but I looked at it and added these two joint venture companies, it is obviously 600 People → 3,000 people, I feel that there will be 5,000 people next year, completely replacing the 5,000 people who have just been disbanded in Germany.

This is actually a result of the availability of chips in China (surprising in light of the US bans!)

Cars don't need the 14nm and below cutting edge chips and China has a large share of legacy chips manufacturing and is putting on more capacity.

China will end up making half the world's chips for industrial uses outside the cutting edge needed for smartphones.

 

[rockdog]

 

[ym888]

First monitoring images by China's latest precipitation satellite released

A multi-view display of the 3D structure in the rainfall zone by FY-3G satellite. /National Satellite Meteorological Center
China on Monday released the first set of images from Fengyun-3G (FY-3G), the country's first precipitation measurement satellite in a low-inclination orbit, helpful to better monitor and forecast severe precipitation systems.
The monitoring images were captured by six payloads aboard the FY-3G satellite. They show the three-dimensional (3D) structure of precipitation at different levels.
These satellite-borne payloads include four operational payloads, namely precipitation measurement radar, microwave imager, medium-resolution spectral imager, and the second-generation global navigation satellite system occultation sounder (GNOS-II), as well as two test ones – near-infrared multi-angle polarization imager and high-precision calibrator.
The precipitation measurement radar, the main payload, is the first of its kind in China.
Adopting Ku/Ka-band dual-frequency, the measurement radar, mainly used for precipitation monitoring in catastrophic weather systems, can clearly observe the internal 3D structure of typhoon, rainstorm, blizzard and other precipitation systems.
The satellite captured the 3D structure of the precipitation system in a severe convective weather system that appeared in south China on May 7, for which the National Meteorological Center issued blue alerts for rainstorm and for severe convective weather.

The 3D structure of the precipitation system from 3.75 km to 6 km from the surface in the rainfall near south China's Hainan Province and Yangjiang in Guangdong Province captured by FY-3G's precipitation measurement radar, May 7, 2023. /National Satellite Meteorological Center
With a lifespan of six years, the FY-3G satellite has been developed by the Eighth Research Institute of China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation, and its ground system will be built and operated by the China Meteorological Administration (CMA).
It was launched from the Jiuquan Satellite Launch Center in northwest China on April 16, marking the third precipitation measurement satellite in the world capable of proactive measurement, and making China the only country in the world that operates meteorological satellites in four near-earth orbits, said CMA.
The satellite will "ramp up monitoring and forecasting of cloud and precipitation under the severe weather system, and meteorological disaster prevention , reduction and relief capacities against the backdrop of global climate change," said CMA.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

One thing I find very interesting in this thread from the Indian posters.

They like to parrot Western biases (especially those silly anti-China Youtube videos!) and completely misses the bus.

The pollution and gender "problems" mentioned above for example. Just because the West focuses on China doesn't mean it is actually a greater issue in China. Looking at non-biased sources, you would see that India actually has a worse gender balance and many more polluted cities than China.

Also those "ghost cities" stories!

Pudong in Shanghai and almost every new area in Shenzhen were called "Ghost Cities"

Ghost Towns Or Boomtowns? What New Cities Really Become

Literally hundreds of new cities accounting for trillions of dollars of investment are being built across Asia and Africa right now. Is this the biggest real estate bubble in history or a sign of a rising new economic order?

www.forbes.com

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Now, many Indians are calling China's chip industry a "failure" because of what they hear from the anti-Chinese Youtube channels

But one of the big reasons Chinese cars had done so well in the past year was the availabilty of chips in China while the auto industries of the West came to a halt because of chips.

This "Chinese Chips Industry" problem idea of Indians is almost as silly as the "China has an aircraft engine" problem when the WS-10 is mass-produced in the thousands for every frontline Chinese fighter from legacy J-10S to J-16 and J-15 to J-20A!

 

[Azaad]

One thing I find very interesting in this thread from the Indian posters.

They like to parrot Western biases (especially those silly anti-China Youtube videos!) and completely misses the bus.

The pollution and gender "problems" mentioned above for example. Just because the West focuses on China doesn't mean it is actually a greater issue in China. Looking at non-biased sources, you would see that India actually has a worse gender balance and many more polluted cities than China.

Also those "ghost cities" stories!

Pudong in Shanghai and almost every new area in Shenzhen were called "Ghost Cities"

Ghost Towns Or Boomtowns? What New Cities Really Become

Literally hundreds of new cities accounting for trillions of dollars of investment are being built across Asia and Africa right now. Is this the biggest real estate bubble in history or a sign of a rising new economic order?

www.forbes.com

View attachment 205309
View attachment 205310
View attachment 205311

But sexychineselady , you ought to consider a few things. Towns & cities take time to populate & function optimally . While in the past most of those townships built eventually got to function optimally OVER A PERIOD OF TIME , a few were relatively uninhabited & eventually ended up as Ghost towns. But that was in the past. Today China is neck deep in a real estate crisis. The trust factor between the consumer , the banks , the real estate sector , the local state governments & the central government is in tatters. This is the nub of the issue you aren't addressing & will never address.

Secondly China is a world power & advanced nation. I don't think anyone here would deny it . How many advanced nations do you see have such third world problems as gender imbalance & pollution issues on the scale China does. And aren't you embarassed comparing yourselves to a third world country like India ? I mean no self respecting Indian would brook any comparison with Pakistan . While India's no Pakistan , shouldn't China be benchmarking it's indices in various sectors to developed nations like the US & western Europe .

This whole comparison with 3rd world countries itself smacks of a massive inferiority complex feeding into a superiority complex. They're 2 sides of the same coin truth be told . I guess the Chinese do it to feel good about themselves. After all if you start benchmarking yourselves against ADVANCED nations like the US , you'd get a belly upset. So we can understand your need to be cheerleading for China . Hope it's remunerative too.

 

[Azaad]

This "Chinese Chips Industry" problem idea of Indians is almost as silly as the "China has an aircraft engine" problem when the WS-10 is mass-produced in the thousands for every frontline Chinese fighter from legacy J-10S to J-16 and J-15 to J-20A!

The Chinese have always had a substantial presence in the 22 nm & above SMC market . There's nothing new in it . Over the course of this decade China would commoditize it to the extent it can , thereby cornering as much of the market it can as it has done in other sectors. It's the nodes below 22 nm where your expertise & talent is going to be tested. The world would be interested in seeing how fast can you overcome the comprehensive ban the US led sanctions have led to . Or if you can come up with suitable alternatives.

Ditto for the various turbofans you've developed. Russia has been in the biz for decades . Though India's familiar with the entire family of the USSR / Ru developed TFs , it wouldn't be their first choice . Which is why we're seeking collaborative JVs with the west not Russia in this matter.

Given the long history of China with Russia in this sector , I would rate the Chinese TFs in the same bandwidth as those of Russia which wouldn't be of the mark given the Chinese familiarity with Russian TFs . As to how effective & durable they truly are & whether they're on par with the Russian ones in this matter , time will tell .

 

[SexyChineseLady]

But sexychineselady , you ought to consider a few things. Towns & cities take time to populate & function optimally . While in the past most of those townships built eventually got to function optimally OVER A PERIOD OF TIME , a few were relatively uninhabited & eventually ended up as Ghost towns. But that was in the past. Today China is neck deep in a real estate crisis. The trust factor between the consumer , the banks , the real estate sector , the local state governments & the central government is in tatters. This is the nub of the issue you aren't addressing & will never address.

Secondly China is a world power & advanced nation. I don't think anyone here would deny it . How many advanced nations do you see have such third world problems as gender imbalance & pollution issues on the scale China does. And aren't you embarassed comparing yourselves to a third world country like India ? I mean no self respecting Indian would brook any comparison with Pakistan . While India's no Pakistan , shouldn't China be benchmarking it's indices in various sectors to developed nations like the US & western Europe .

This whole comparison with 3rd world countries itself smacks of a massive inferiority complex feeding into a superiority complex. They're 2 sides of the same coin truth be told . I guess the Chinese do it to feel good about themselves. After all if you start benchmarking yourselves against ADVANCED nations like the US , you'd get a belly upset. So we can understand your need to be cheerleading for China . Hope it's remunerative too.

1) The dynamics of urbanization in China didn't change with Evergrande last year. China has a huge population that still needs to urbanize,

2) It is not the Chinese posters who brought India into this thread. I don't like comparisons to be honest. I'd be happy just posting about China economics in this thread,

3) China is still a poor developing country. Very few Chinese will say otherwise. It is what drives China. As such it sees itself as part of the Global South just like India.

China have a bigger overall economy than the US. But the per capita income is much lower.

So yes China is a developing nation. Only anti-China forces say otherwise:

 

[Azaad]

1) The dynamics of urbanization in China didn't change with Evergrande last year. China has a huge population that still needs to urbanize,

2) It is not the Chinese posters who brought India into this thread. I don't like comparisons to be honest. I'd be happy just posting about China in this thread,

3) China is still a poor developing country. Very few Chinese will say otherwise. It is what drives China. As such it sees itself as part of the Global South just like India.

China have a bigger overall economy than the US. But the per capita income is much lower.

So yes China is a developing nation. Only anti-China forces say otherwise:

View attachment 205321
View attachment 205322

1.) True . But your bond market has taken a huge hit . Besides Evergrande isn't the only Chinese company which has gone belly up . Do you want me to post more on this ? I don't mind but it'd ruin your parade.

2.) The Chinese members have done exactly the opposite of what you're claiming though you personally may not have indulged in it . It's the same story everywhere on SM.

3.) There's something called Gross National Power . By all metrics employed , China comes across as a developed nation. It may suit the CCP & the Chinese people to parrot the line that China's poor & still a developing nation. Just don't go about sharing this bit with the Africans or the Latin Americans . They'd fall over laughing their backsides off with tears in their eyes showing you what they owe the party of the army & army of the party by way of debts courtesy the BRI & other such wonderful debt guzzling schemes. We've already two such examples in our neighborhood - Pakistan & China.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

The Chinese have always had a substantial presence in the 22 nm & above SMC market . There's nothing new in it . Over the course of this decade China would commoditize it to the extent it can , thereby cornering as much of the market it can as it has done in other sectors. It's the nodes below 22 nm where your expertise & talent is going to be tested. The world would be interested in seeing how fast can you overcome the comprehensive ban the US led sanctions have led to . Or if you can come up with suitable alternatives.

Ditto for the various turbofans you've developed. Russia has been in the biz for decades . Though India's familiar with the entire family of the USSR / Ru developed TFs , it wouldn't be their first choice . Which is why we're seeking collaborative JVs with the west not Russia in this matter.

Given the long history of China with Russia in this sector , I would rate the Chinese TFs in the same bandwidth as those of Russia which wouldn't be of the mark given the Chinese familiarity with Russian TFs . As to how effective & durable they truly are & whether they're on par with the Russian ones in this matter , time will
pptell .

China had always bought from the global market and it still does.

But the US chip bans had forced China to push that money supporting semicon's globalized supply chain into a fully Chinese one.

People don't understand that China has companies in every link of the global semicon supply chain. Every major semicon company including ASML had Chinese suppliers.

The problem for those Chinese suppliers was foreign competition for China's electronics business and those firms never grew.

When I say every link, I mean every link including EUV which is really the only thing China lacks.

Changchun Institute of Optics,Fine Mechanies and Physics,Chinese Academy of Sciences

In 2002, the first EUV lithography prototype in China was developed, which verified the EUV lithography in principle. In 2008, EUV lithography technology was listed as a key research task in "32-22nm equipment technology forward-looking research" by the major project. CIOMP carried out the project of “The research on the key technologies of extreme ultraviolet lithography” as a leading organization, together with partners such as CAS Institute of Optics and Electronics, CAS Shanghai Institute of Optics and Fine Mechanics, CAS Institute Microelectronics, Beijing Institute of Technology, Harbin Institute of Technology, Huazhong University of Science and Technology.

ASML commercialized EUV and made it affordable and economically rational so no one else including Chinese firms bothered to develop this in parallel. But with the bans, China's eco-system is now forced to. There is a certainty that China will get there. It has now become a necessity that is forcing China to spend money and build something it rather not (EUV has a market right now of only TWO firms --- TMSC and Samsung.)

As far as the turbofans as concerned, this is why China is replacing the AL-31 everywhere -- even in older airframes like the J-10S and J-15s:

 

[Azaad]

China had always bought from the global market and it still does.

But the US chip bans had forced China to push that money supporting semicon's globalized supply chain into a fully Chinese one.

People don't understand that China has companies in every link of the global supply chain. The problem was foreign competition for China's electronics business and those firms never grew.

When I every link, I mean every link including EUV which is really the only thing Chiba really lacks.

Changchun Institute of Optics,Fine Mechanies and Physics,Chinese Academy of Sciences

In 2002, the first EUV lithography prototype in China was developed, which verified the EUV lithography in principle. In 2008, EUV lithography technology was listed as a key research task in "32-22nm equipment technology forward-looking research" by the major project. CIOMP carried out the project of “The research on the key technologies of extreme ultraviolet lithography” as a leading organization, together with partners such as CAS Institute of Optics and Electronics, CAS Shanghai Institute of Optics and Fine Mechanics, CAS Institute Microelectronics, Beijing Institute of Technology, Harbin Institute of Technology, Huazhong University of Science and Technology.

ASML commercialized EUV and made it affordable and economically rational so no one else including Chinese firms bothered to develop this in parallel. But with the bans, China's eco-system is now forced to. There is a certainty that China will get there. It has now become a necessity that is forcing China to spend money and build something it rather not (EUV has a market right now of only TWO firms --- TMSC and Samsung.)

As far as the turbofans as concerned, this is why China is replacing the AL-31 everywhere -- even in older airframes like the J-10S and J-15s:
View attachment 205328

We'd discuss the advances you've made in mfg lithographic machines the day you accomplish it . Ditto for the 14 nm , 5 nm & lesser nodes.

As far as the MTBO & TTSL of your TFs go , I think apart from your compatriots here & resident Chinese cheerleader cum 5th columnist Jai jagannath , nobody givers credence to the figures you've posted .

 

[skywatcher]

people have no sense of humor these days.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

We'd discuss the advances you've made in mfg lithographic machines the day you accomplish it . Ditto for the 14 nm , 5 nm & lesser nodes.

As far as the MTBO & TTSL of your TFs go , I think apart from your compatriots here & resident Chinese cheerleader cum 5th columnist Jai jagannath , nobody givers credence to the figures you've posted .

We can talk again in a few years! I think you'll be surprised. EVERYTHING is gearing towards a pretty dramatic change in semicon -- just like what we saw in EVs

You can talk to the air forces of Japan and Taiwan too with WS-10 engined J-16s and J-11Bs wearing down F-15s and F-16s