Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

[Kunal Biswas]

Why would Army order Arjuns if a NG MBT like T95 was round the corner ? Are we stupid ?

Its not being stupid but a logiacal, T-95 is no doubt a excellent tank and IA would have purchased it, T95 would have a trouble as it use a 152mm and totally new tank ( Turret and chassis ) transfer of tech is very doubtful to me as Russians in todays date dont give tech data to Indian that easily, for example K-5 era is still importated rater than made in India..

Other Countermeasures are not issued in Indian T-90s..

Arjun failed even after being in development for 3 decades forcing us to buy T90s.

No one forced IA to purchased T-90S, Its a obvious not only to counter T-80UDs but also suitable replacement of T-72M1s..

And again failed, forcing us to upgrade T72s.

Epic mistake by IA, T-90S are meant to replace T-72s..

And now that it has passed its going to be ordered.
but Infrastructure needs to be built.

Same infrastructure but different tank..

It has 40-80% imported components, vagaries of pricing and delivery. Etc. Etc.

Gun - Indigenous
Armour- Indigenous
Suspension- Indigenous
Engine ( Recently)- Indigenous

How its 80%?

T90 is the reason why Arjun's outcome doesn't affect our national security.

Yeah good thing for a short time...

When it comes to Arjun, DRDO has tremendously benefited from foreign assistance (for eg. Israeli help for Armour, KFM for tank design)

Armour??
Hows that?

For us we have two options. 1) continue to import or 2) trust DRDO to have our own as no other private company is going to design a tank atleast for next 2 decades in India.

Correct, INDIAN ARMY need to learn form Russia, US also CHINA, War can be only won when its army gets continual supply of weapon and ammo from within the country..

I go by the ground conditions and I don't trust DRDO. I would not like to open the pandoras box but almost all DRDO programs have benefited from foreign assistance and substantial amount of imports.
The only way in the future is joint development and later when we are able to, we can become lead developer.

Indeed you should also give a look to DRDOs budget before blaming them, u say joint development!, That is Arjun to a certain stage!!
Also Joint development is the cause we have Arjun, Akash and other hardwares..

Arjun use 40-45% imported material and its good, when we have our felicities we will crate our own!
Eg - Engines!

Anti-Arjun brigade within army is bending, this time sadly only by 15*, optimistically, they will bend more soon or Arjun performance will force them bend.

Best deal will be to limit T-72 up gradation plans to upto 50% and rest of the money shall go towards procuring new Arjun.

Arjun is a far supperior tank then T-90S
But IA t-72m1 fleets is outdated, T-90s is a cheap option to replace them!

How long is it going to be for Indian army to receive rest of the 74 tanks that due to be delivered & how long is it going to take for the new 124 Arjun's to be delivered since the first deal is still not fullfilled ?.

The more u order before the faster it will complete coz the order of more also helps to get more workers also imported equipment will arrive soon!

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Isn't that Manu Sood's website? lol anyway...

Here's from a press release of DRDO

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2008/07/exclusive-drdos-statement-calling-for.html

The percentage of import content is 60% in the first lot of 124 tanks to be productionised, which will be reduced to under 45% with the manufacture of first 200 tanks and under 30% with the manufacture of about 500 tanks.

All major systems are homemade!
The Article didn't showed any technical data to prove its worth, only BLA BLA BLA stuff!!

Its should be 60% Indigenous and 40% Imported,
This article is a elaborated attack on Arjun progress...

WE DO NEED TO LEARN FROM US, RUSSIA, CHINA!
IN WAR ONLY VICTORY COMES TO THOSE WHO`S ARMY GETS THE CONTINUAL SUPPLY OF WEAPON AND AMMO!

AND NOW INDIA PLANED FOR TWO FRONT DOCTRINE, WITHOUT INDIGENOUS Platforms ITS NOT POSSIBLE..

THESE WORDS PROVED IN KARGIL WAR!

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Indian Army Inducts 16 Arjun Tanks

Indian Army Inducts 16 Arjun Tanks

The Indian Army received on 25 May its third batch of 16 Arjun Main Battle Tanks (MBT) which is being made by the Combat Vehicles Research of and Development Establishment (CVRDE), a part of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO). The CVRDE is building a total of 124 such tanks. It had bagged the order worth $352 million in year 2000. The MBT Arjun tank can fire at a range of 3-4 km and has superb mobility. It is equipped with high protection facility.

The CVRDE has already delivered 29 MBTs in two instalments till March this year. The current and final delivery would mark the successful completion of the distribution of First Arjun Regiment. Each Regiment consists of 45 MBTs.

Arjun MBT is a state-of-the-art tank with superior fire power, high mobility, and excellent protection. Twelve Mk 1 prototypes of MBT Arjun have been manufactured and their performance tests have provided satisfactory results. Some of the breakthroughs achieved by CVRDE during the development of MBT Arjun are in Engine, Hull and Turret, and Gun Control System.

The superior armour defeating capability of the indigenously developed Fin Stabilized Armour Piercing Discarding Sabot (FSAPDS) ammunition and 120 mm calibre rifled gun give MBT ARJUN an edge over contemporary world tanks. A computer-controlled integrated fire control system incorporating day-and-night stabilized sighting system guarantees a very high first round hit probability and reduced reaction time to bring effective fire on targets.

http://indiadefenceonline.com/730/indian-army-inducts-16-arjun-tanks/

Jai hind!!

.....................

 

[AJSINGH]

at Mr Kunal Biswas - i would like to ask you if Arjun tank is better than T-90S ?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

at Mr Kunal Biswas - i would like to ask you if Arjun tank is better than T-90S ?

Yes, Arjun is better than T-90s!

 

[AJSINGH]

Yes, Arjun is better than T-90s!

in what way ? just today i happend to talk to armored core officer here in hyderabad and he said that and i quote " Arjun is better than T-90S in some parameteres,however overall T-90S is better tank ,and it is a small target "

 

[Daredevil]

in what way ? just today i happend to talk to armored core officer here in hyderabad and he said that and i quote " Arjun is better than T-90S in some parameteres,however overall T-90S is better tank ,and it is a small target "

Have you asked the so called officer on what parameters Arjun lags behind T-90. Nobody here is willing to take comments at face value. We need more facts and evidence.

 

[AJSINGH]

Have you asked the so called officer on what parameters Arjun lags behind T-90. Nobody here is willing to take comments at face value. We need more facts and evidence.

he says that the results are classified and anyways i am going tomorrow to see both T-90S and Arjun , i will ask him tomorrow

 

[nrj]

he says that the results are classified and anyways i am going tomorrow to see both T-90S and Arjun , i will ask him today

Bring official statements. Buddy talk is not an evidence.

 

[AJSINGH]

Bring official statements. Buddy talk is not an evidence.

huh , okay i will get it written by that officer 2mmorow ,ask some daily newspaper to publish it and then paste the link here
thanks buddy , did not think of this

 

[nrj]

huh , okay i will get it written by that officer 2mmorow ,ask some daily newspaper to publish it and then paste the link here
thanks buddy , did not think of this

Bring the IA statement that says 'Overall T90S is better tank than Arjun'. In that case, DRDO might be worried/surprised/infuriated than me.

 

[Daredevil]

huh , okay i will get it written by that officer 2mmorow ,ask some daily newspaper to publish it and then paste the link here
thanks buddy , did not think of this

All that we want to know is what fallacies does Arjun show with respect to T-90 and the reason & logic behind them. This will help us in discussing and debating in a better way. I hope that you can glean enough stuff from the said armored officer.

 

[AJSINGH]

Bring the IA statement that says 'Overall T90S is better tank than Arjun'. In that case, DRDO might be worried/surprised/infuriated than me.

okay will try my best . official IA statement which says "Overall T-90S is better tank than Arjun " and yeh that officer will be sacked for comming for interacting with media and giving unauthorised statement of weapons in IA , i hope that officer takes this risk

 

[nrj]

okay will try my best . official IA statement which says "Overall T-90S is better tank than Arjun " and yeh that officer will be sacked for comming for interacting with media and giving unauthorised statement of weapons in IA , i hope that officer takes this risk

What was your guess?? We are interested in Authorized statements only. Will IA confirm your buddy official's personal claim? NO.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Arjun vs Indian T-90S..

in what way ? just today i happend to talk to armored core officer here in hyderabad and he said that and i quote " Arjun is better than T-90S in some parameteres,however overall T-90S is better tank ,and it is a small target "

I respect the comment made by the officer, But Arjun is not so a big target!

Arjun
Width:- 3.864 m
Length:- 10.638 m
Height:- 2.32 m

T-90s
Width:- 3.78 m
Length:-9.53 m
Height:-2.22 m

Few Inches is no big deal!

Further as u said 'ways'
Then Arjun is better Armored and have better firepower also good mobility and ground pressure..

Armored..
The following information is at-least 6-7 years old, Today's Arjuns are much better and updated with ERA, therefore its Armour will enhance and protection and it will be more Armored than T-90S..

Arjun:
Turret: 500-570mm RHAe, Glacis: 410mm RHAe vs. APFSDS, ( WITHOUT ERA )
Turret: 650-830mm RHAe, Glacis: 730mm RHAe vs, HEAT. ( WITHOUT ERA )

T-90S:
Turret: vs APFSDS: 550 mm Glacis: 250-280mm ( WITHOUT ERA )
Turret: vs HEAT: 650 mm Glacis: 500-700mm ( WITHOUT ERA )

T-90S:
Turret: vs APFSDS: 550 mm Glacis: 250-280mm ( with Kontakt-5 ) = 800-830mm
Turret: vs HEAT: 650 mm Glacis: 500-700mm ( with Kontakt-5 )= 1,150-1,350mm

This is the time when the Russian Tank T-72 imported by Indian Army could not penetrate the Kanchan Armor protected Arjun Tank , with APFDS at point blank range. Subsequently, the debate took place if the Russians had supplied us with training rounds rather than the actual ammunition. As a side note, in January 2000 at Proof & Experimental Establishment (PXE), Balasore, Arjun tank armor defeated all available HESH and FSAPDS rounds including Israeli FSAPDS rounds.

Kanchan armor composition has undergone massive changes since 1980's. The volume of the RHA has been reduced to lesser mass because of better metallurgy. The composite has evolved too and it does not use the 1980's technology anymore.

Fire Power:
Arjun:
The rifled 120 mm can fire high velocity rounds.

DRDO rounds can archive 1680m/s muzzle velocity
Foreign Rounds Like,The German design DM-43 with special Sabot specially modified for Arjun 120mm cannon, DM-43 can Archive 1780m/s muzzle velocity.

This Information is being discussed with some of my close friends during DEFEXPO 2010.
btw, their is no information abt this on net or any official site..

Also Arjun can fire LAHAT Antitank missile which have a range of 6km, most importantly it strike enemy tank from the top ( High kill rate )!


Indian T-90S:
125mm smoothbore gun fires high velocity rounds.
3VBM8/3BM17/18, An export version of the 3BM-15 without the tungsten carbide plug ( Degraded rounds ). muzzle velocity 1600m/s ( exported rounds )

DRDO 125mm round can archive 1680m/s ( Same round use by Arjun but modified for 120mm rifled bore )

Can fire 9M119M Refleks or 9M119 Svir at range of 75-5000 m
http://fofanov.armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/ARM/refleks.html


Mobality:
Arjun: Is equipped with 1400hp engines and can run 70km on roads and 40km on off-roads also the ground pressure is better which is 0.84 kg/sq. cm.
T-90s: Is equipped with 1,000 hp engine and can run 70km on roads and 40km on off-roads ground pressure is 0.91 kg/sq.cm


So i have give you all the data about both tanks, And no doubt Arjun seems better to me..

 

[Daredevil]

To add to Kunal's points,

Arjun's gun rifled and so can fire HESH rounds which will be useful for bunker busting while this is not possible with T-90 smooth bore gun.

 

[sayareakd]

I respect the comment made by the officer, But Arjun is not so a big target!

Hi Kunal, i appreciate the good work done by you are MP, i love all your pics.........and good to see you here.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

To add to Kunal's points,

Arjun's gun rifled and so can fire HESH rounds which will be useful for bunker busting while this is not possible with T-90 smooth bore gun.

Not, HESH but T-90 use HE rounds, Both tanks have capability to destroy enemy fortifications..

 

[AJSINGH]

I respect the comment made by the officer, But Arjun is not so a big target!

Arjun
Width:- 3.864 m
Length:- 10.638 m
Height:- 2.32 m

T-90s
Width:- 3.78 m
Length:-9.53 m
Height:-2.22 m

Few Inches is no big deal!

Further as u said 'ways'
Then Arjun is better Armored and have better firepower also good mobility and ground pressure..

Armored..
The following information is at-least 6-7 years old, Today's Arjuns are much better and updated with ERA, therefore its Armour will enhance and protection and it will be more Armored than T-90S..

Arjun:
Turret: 500-570mm RHAe, Glacis: 410mm RHAe vs. APFSDS, ( WITHOUT ERA )
Turret: 650-830mm RHAe, Glacis: 730mm RHAe vs, HEAT. ( WITHOUT ERA )

T-90S:
Turret: vs APFSDS: 550 mm Glacis: 250-280mm ( WITHOUT ERA )
Turret: vs HEAT: 650 mm Glacis: 500-700mm ( WITHOUT ERA )

T-90S:
Turret: vs APFSDS: 550 mm Glacis: 250-280mm ( with Kontakt-5 ) = 800-830mm
Turret: vs HEAT: 650 mm Glacis: 500-700mm ( with Kontakt-5 )= 1,150-1,350mm




Fire Power:
Arjun:
The rifled 120 mm can fire high velocity rounds.

DRDO rounds can archive 1680m/s muzzle velocity
Foreign Rounds Like,The German design DM-43 with special Sabot specially modified for Arjun 120mm cannon, DM-43 can Archive 1780m/s muzzle velocity.

Also Arjun can fire LAHAT Antitank missile which have a range of 6km, most importantly it strike enemy tank from the top ( High kill rate )!


Indian T-90S:
125mm smoothbore gun fires high velocity rounds.
3VBM8/3BM17/18, An export version of the 3BM-15 without the tungsten carbide plug ( Degraded rounds ). muzzle velocity 1600m/s ( exported rounds )

DRDO 125mm round can archive 1680m/s ( Same round use by Arjun but modified for 120mm rifled bore )

Can fire 9M119M Refleks or 9M119 Svir at range of 75-5000 m
http://fofanov.armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/ARM/refleks.html


Mobality:
Arjun: Is equipped with 1400hp engines and can run 70km on roads and 40km on off-roads also the ground pressure is better which is 0.84 kg/sq. cm.
T-90s: Is equipped with 1,000 hp engine and can run 70km on roads and 40km on off-roads ground pressure is 0.91 kg/sq.cm


So i have give you all the data about both tanks, And no doubt Arjun seems better to me..

with all due respect - why arent we buying more Arjun then ?

 

[Daredevil]

with all due respect - why arent we buying more Arjun then ?

Because of the wrong people at the helm in DGMF.