Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

[not so dravidian]

if you manage to hit any tank turret it will be out of combat for a while, whether it is armata or arjun. Heavy Armour on turret is there to protect crew, no such limitation on armata. 95% of threats tanks face are from ATGMS, RPG not sabot & it is well protected against those threats. Armata is a Modular tank. armour can be added at will , depending on situation.

well u r right on threats. in future thanks cud only bought down by either themselves or air support

 

[t 90s]

Here you go

No to go with 152mm gun for now has more to do with combustion instability, lower EFC and dangerously high chamber pressure russian were facing.

 

[airstrike99]

Alpha defence made many mistakes and he was rip apart by red effect. and even after getting humiliated he kept coming back for more. Red affect mistakes was mostly due to non availability of info regarding arjun mk1a while alpha defence on the other simply don't know what he talks about most of the time. Only Indian channel worth following is defence decode.

non availability of info regarding arjun mk1a

not knowing how to use the internet and non availability of info are two different things.
don't confuse the both.
all the info by alpha is on public domain.
too much laziness to look for info is not an excuse.

 

[t 90s]

@t 90s
any idea why u russians only use ERA than composites

anyway i guess @Bleh is the right person that u should be talking to on t90s and armor protection
y'all ive somework, so going off. now will come later

Russian do use composite. ERA keep the tank weight low at the same time providing higher protection against both Kinetic as well as charge projectiles. ERA like kontak-5, reliket , ERA mk2 etc are nothing to mess with. they can snap whole kinetic projectile in 2 including the western one.

 

[airstrike99]

No to go with 152mm gun for now has more to do with combustion instability, lower EFC and dangerously high chamber pressure russian were facing.

combustion instability....
dangerously high chamber pressure

let me translate for ya>>> we don't have good engineers




that's what you have to compensate.. noob.
they don't have the material science engineering to make a 152 mm gun that can hold high pressure, while having less weight. and have a longer barrel that could hold the projectile and accelarate it to speeds of about 1750 m/s -1800 m/s
russian material science engg is poor compared to western ones. it is also reflected in their RD series engines and tumansky engines.

red effect like to talk out of his fantasy dumpster brain. """fitting a 152 mm "long barrel" gun on a tank."""

there is a reason why armies and research orgs don't do that (w.r.t turrent traverse speed and gun laying speed) you also have to provide stabilisation for such a gun that probably can weight more than 4 - 5tons.
the 125 mm guns already weight ~ 2.5 tons. )

 

[airstrike99]

Russian do use composite. ERA keep the tank weight low at the same time providing higher protection against both Kinetic as well as charge projectiles. ERA like kontak-5, reliket , ERA mk2 etc are nothing to mess with. they can snap whole kinetic projectile in 2 including the western one.

ERA like kontak-5, reliket , ERA mk2 etc are nothing to mess with.

except... high caliber m/c guns can take them out. thats why NERA combined with slat armour and/or spaced armour are better than ERA.

 

[airstrike99]

Red effect was more like arjun is trash! It is a salt dispenser but even in his arjun vs al khalid video he says both tanks are bad in some ways but he doesn't make videos mocking alkhalid .and his comment section is full of porks running wild

man you keep forgetting that he's a law student. he can turn arguments towards his side.

just ignore him and his followers/ i mean cult.

 

[t 90s]

except... high caliber m/c guns can take them out. thats why NERA combined with slat armour and/or spaced armour are better than ERA.

ERA are not triggered with low caliber Machine guns & Malachit on armata is EM base reactive armour. It allow for multi hit capability , rather than one time ERA use.

man you keep forgetting that he's a law student. he can turn arguments towards his side.

just ignore him and his followers/ i mean cult.

a law student with better knowledge , than a guy ( probably an indian engineer ) who claim arjun ammo has 530mm DOP at 60° from 2km lol.

 

[airstrike99]

if you manage to hit any tank turret it will be out of combat for a while, whether it is armata or arjun. Heavy Armour on turret is there to protect crew, no such limitation on armata. 95% of threats tanks face are from ATGMS, RPG not sabot & it is well protected against those threats. Armata is a Modular tank. armour can be added at will , depending on situation.

Armata is a Modular tank. armour can be added at will , depending on situation.

there are guided munitions that can punch through 1200mm RHA after going through a standard ERA block.

Armata is a Modular tank. armour can be added at will , depending on situation.

modular doesn't mean you can keep on adding anything of any amount. people these days like to use these cool sounding terms.

i am manufacturing engineer myself. we have to study courses related to design and production of such.

modular armour is related more to ease of manufacturing. you can produce more tanks even while having lesser production lines. it is also about ease of repair. instead of rebuilding entire thing, you take out a damaged module and replace it with a new one. it reduces material wastage and time.

ever heard of lean manufacturing?

 

[airstrike99]

ERA are not triggered with low caliber Machine guns & Malachit on armata is EM base reactive armour. It allow for multi hit capability , rather than one time ERA use.

a law student with better knowledge , than a guy ( probably an indian engineer ) who claim arjun ammo has 530mm DOP at 60° from 2km lol.

ERA are not triggered with low caliber Machine guns

i literally said high caliber m/c guns you noob. what are you .. blind?

who claim arjun ammo has 530mm DOP at 60° from 2km lol.

he said 530mm DOP at 0 deg 2km not 60 deg. no tank can punch ""1060mm DOP (530/cos60>> effective RHA according to your statement, which is impossible) at 0 deg at 2km. what an idiot.


its 500mm DOP at 0 deg at 2km. (230 mm at 63 deg 2km) both are same. ( 230/cos63 >>effective RHA)
575mm DOP at (10m or point blank) at 0 deg.

here is an official ordinance factory board (gov. in) document for people like you that don't know how to use internet or too lazy to search or maybe your dictators have banned you from using the internet.

https://ofb.gov.in/uploads/Documents/cf65b3a277d43079c2051134bde39b71.pdf

 

[t 90s]

View attachment 92313
let me translate for ya>>> we don't have good engineers




that's what you have to compensate.. noob.
they don't have the material science engineering to make a 152 mm gun that can hold high pressure, while having less weight. and have a longer barrel that could hold the projectile and accelarate it to speeds of about 1750 m/s -1800 m/s
russian material science engg is poor compared to western ones. it is also reflected in their RD series engines and tumansky engines.

red effect like to talk out of his fantasy dumpster brain. """fitting a 152 mm "long barrel" gun on a tank."""

there is a reason why armies and research orgs don't do that (w.r.t turrent traverse speed and gun laying speed) you also have to provide stabilisation for such a gun that probably can weight more than 4 - 5tons.
the 125 mm guns already weight ~ 2.5 tons. )

Armata gun has muzzle velocity of around 2000m/s highest of any tank gun out there, poor russian metallurgist. they should have higher you or alpha defence for better results .

 

[airstrike99]

height has nothing to do with turret profile , everything to do with gun elevation + to increase situational awareness, how ? Well

well, the thing is earth isn't a glass sphere. the terrain isn't smooth. if that were the case, every tank would go for much larger height radar placements and long range guns and turn into artillery pieces.
that's what separates tanks and artillery.

tanks are meant to show superiority on a range of about 500m - 5 km .
they are like power projection on the ground. you need to hold bases and your borders. you can't do it just by artillery. artillery will stop advances upto an extant but you have to hold your ground. so lower height tanks are less visible and more preferable.

 

[airstrike99]

Armata gun has muzzle velocity of around 2000m/s highest of any tank gun out there, poor russian metallurgist. they should have higher you or alpha defence for better results .

oh yeah...... 2000m/s of what projectile.???? a 125mm projectile.

try imparting a velocity of 1750 -1800 m/s o a projectile with dia of 152mm. for a " TANK GUN"

 

[airstrike99]

Armata gun has muzzle velocity of around 2000m/s highest of any tank gun out there, poor russian metallurgist. they should have higher you or alpha defence for better results .

they should have higher you or alpha defence for better results

also i argue for myself, not for alpha defense. i brought his name because someone else asked the story between red and alpha.

 

[airstrike99]

Armata gun has muzzle velocity of around 2000m/s highest of any tank gun out there, poor russian metallurgist. they should have higher you or alpha defence for better results .

also its ~ 1980 m/s not ~2000 m/s to be more precise. that 20 makes a difference when the velocities of kinetic penetrators drop over a range. just pointing it out.

 

[t 90s]

well, the thing is earth isn't a glass sphere. the terrain isn't smooth. if that were the case, every tank would go for much larger height radar placements and long range guns and turn into artillery pieces.
that's what separates tanks and artillery.

tanks are meant to show superiority on a range of about 500m - 5 km .
they are like power project on the ground. you need to hold bases and your borders. you can't do it just by artillery. artillery will stop advances upto an extant but you have to hold your ground. so lower height tanks are less visible and more preferable.

If i can i spot an enemy AFV from 14 km away i will just fire a long range projectile like guided artillery shell or ATGM or share info with other assets on ground or air to take the enemy out before i make any contact. Even if i did made a contact , i will be in better position for effective fire.

oh yeah...... 2000m/s of what projectile.???? a 125mm projectile.

It's a 125mm gun in first place

try imparting a velocity of 1750 -1800 m/s o a projectile with dia of 152mm. for a " TANK GUN"

2A83 152mm has muzzle velocity of 1980m/s

also its ~ 1980 m/s not ~2000 m/s to be more precise. that 20 makes a difference when the velocities of kinetic penetrators drop over a range. just pointing it out.

armata gun is 2A82-1M , effective muzzle velocity was around 2050 m/s in field trials & even if it was 1980m/s difference regarding DOP will be negligible.

 

[Bleh]

@t 90s
any idea why u russians only use ERA than composites

anyway i guess @Bleh is the right person that u should be talking to on t90s and armor protection
y'all ive somework, so going off. now will come later

Nope I'm going nowhere near this again. Real Arjun was the friends we made along the way... I mean, the *techgain. Otherwise the platform is as outdated as Tandoor-90S model (only point in working its favour is that our neighbours have got equally shit ones.)

If the NG-MBT can be built by 2025 then, then 100% effort on that only.

 

[omaebakabaka]

Nope I'm going nowhere near this again. Real Arjun was the friends we made along the way... I mean, the *techgain. Otherwise the platform is as outdated as Tandoor-90 Smodel (only point in working its favour is that our neighbours have got equally shit ones.)

If the NG-MBT can be built by 2025 then, then 100% effort on that only.

Lol that is correct, it is good enough for us and we can improve on it. Russians will be butt hurt that we may not be buying more hopefully as the next decade roles in. Western tanks are equally shit and expensive both to buy and maintain, I would stick with Russian tanks if I have to import. Its always advantage India in ground war against China or Pakistan as long as we have numbers and decent enough match to what Chinese sport, terrorland will soon be irrelevant to us as out economy grows and theirs goes into oblivion only their suicide rates will go up

 

[airstrike99]

If i can i spot an enemy AFV from 14 km away i will just fire a long range projectile like guided artillery shell or ATGM or share info with other assets on ground or air to take the enemy out before i make any contact. Even if i did made a contact , i will be in better position for effective fire.

It's a 125mm gun in first place

2A83 152mm has muzzle velocity of 1980m/s

armata gun is 2A82-1M , effective muzzle velocity was around 2050 m/s in field trials & even if it was 1980m/s difference regarding DOP will be negligible.

If i can i spot an enemy AFV from 14 km away i will just fire a long range projectile like guided artillery shell or ATGM or share info with other assets on ground or air to take the enemy out before i make any contact. Even if i did made a contact , i will be in better position for effective fire.

then don't talk about 1v1 tank battles. talk about larger conflicts with different types of weapon systems included
also i don't need to use a tank to spot an enemy 14km away. i can use some cheap reconnaissance drones. thats why you shouldn't talk about other weapon systems in a tank 1v1 battle.

It's a 125mm gun in first place

yes a 125mm diameter bore gun fires a 125mm dia projectile in the case of HEAT and total 125mm discarding sabot round with a 20-30mm dia penetrator. the sabots need to leave the tank their dia is 125mm.

yeah i was wrong about the muzzle velocities. 2050 m/s for 125 mm 2A82 cannon and 1980 m/s for 152 mm 2A83 cannon. i previously said 1980 m/s for the 125 mm canon. sorry for that.

Of course it doesn't depends on looks. That's why it has the highest crew protection level of any tank out there.
The most powerful gun in service on any tank currently and ammo which can punch through 1 meter of RHA from 2 km.

however, the 125 mm gun can't punch 1meter RHA from 2km as you mentioned earlier. it can do it at 10m point blank.

Russian will move to 152mm , they have already tested it. Thing can punch through 1 meter of RHA from 5km.

also the 152 mm gun can punch 1.024 meter of RHA at 2km not 5km.

also the 152 mm gun will be used on limited specialised vehicles, not on the tanks that serve as MBTs.

 

[airstrike99]

If i can i spot an enemy AFV from 14 km away i will just fire a long range projectile like guided artillery shell or ATGM or share info with other assets on ground or air to take the enemy out before i make any contact. Even if i did made a contact , i will be in better position for effective fire.

It's a 125mm gun in first place

2A83 152mm has muzzle velocity of 1980m/s

armata gun is 2A82-1M , effective muzzle velocity was around 2050 m/s in field trials & even if it was 1980m/s difference regarding DOP will be negligible.

and the 152 mm gun also weighs more than 5 tons just as i guessed.
it also has 1/3 the life span of 2A82-1M.
i wanna see its turret traverse with a 5 - 5.5 ton gun. lel
you can barely have 10-15 rounds.


it cant be called an MBT. just a new category of ground weapon systems in warfare.
it will behave just like an Self Propelled artillery. only difference is it might move faster due to larger engine than typical SPAs. but turret traverse and stabilisation of gun will be so bad. they might have to remove even more turret armour.

it will look something like this

for some reason the armata hull looks similar to the above ones. hmm.. what could be the reason..hmmm