Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

airstrike99

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Completely baseless. No info. No indication of any such thing in 10 years.. I asked him a bunch of questions, to which he gave very contradicting answers that made sense. I wouldn't trust it.

Read from here: https://defenceforumindia.com/threads/arjun-main-battle-tank-mbt.9558/post-1862809
exactly. however, there's this image

1622394251724.png


and its has 6 road wheels just like T-72s and T-90s

and this speculative image has 7 road wheels . i.e same hull of MK1. could it be that someone tried to make it based on insider info from DRDO.
1622394340983.png
 

airstrike99

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If he's named his rectum as DRDO then yes, from right inside it. 😑
why??? just whyy.

1622394666714.png


that's too mean. give him a chance. you gotta be reasonable and collect as much info as possible before passing judgements.

this is the exact reason why i want to load you in a pak 40 and shoot you into a chinese tank side armour to destroy it. :troll:

(no offence tho.)
 

Aditya Ballal

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If he's named his rectum as DRDO then yes, from right inside it. 😑
why??? just whyy.

View attachment 92488

that's too mean. give him a chance. you gotta be reasonable and collect as much info as possible before passing judgements.

this is the exact reason why i want to load you in a pak 40 and shoot you into a chinese tank side armour to destroy it. :troll:

(no offence tho.)
IMO in the stuff he peddles around I feel in his exaggerations or claims there may be some figment of the truth.
So best not to completely disregard him.
 

Bleh

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exactly. however, there's this image

View attachment 92484

and its has 6 road wheels just like T-72s and T-90s

and this speculative image has 7 road wheels . i.e same hull of MK1. could it be that someone tried to make it based on insider info from DRDO.
View attachment 92486
1st one old FMBT, GNMBT was based on that (kinda like old Tejas Mark2 & parent MWF)

2nd one is complete fanart.
 

airstrike99

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1st one old FMBT, GNMBT was based on that (kinda like old Tejas Mark2 & parent MWF)

2nd one is complete fanart.
yes 2nd one is fan art. but could it be possible to have such a conf made by drdo? and that prasun guy wrote so convincingly that 7 MK2 are already in testing and firing trails.

guess i just need some
1622396266723.png
 

shuvo@y2k10

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yes 2nd one is fan art. but could it be possible to have such a conf made by drdo? and that prasun guy wrote so convincingly that 7 MK2 are already in testing and firing trails.

guess i just need some
View attachment 92495
The 2nd image is a very old fanart, which I saw more than a decade ago. Even before the first MK1A prototype was revealed in 2012 (it was then called MK2).

Another very old fanart of FMBT, had a superficial resemblance to M1Abrams:
be1d3329f680a0c782af274331a75524.jpg


Nevertheless, none of these fanarts will materialize, though there is a slight chance that old FMBT turret may find its way in Arjun mk2.
However, the future of Arjun mk2 project is highly uncertain.
 

airstrike99

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i found these interesting pages.

both these pages talk about Arjun tank development from MK1 to MK1A to MK2.

and both state that arjun MK2 will be a 50 ton futuristic FMBT. that is similar to T-90S in its configuration, that could replace all old T-72s. so it will have 6 road wheels instead of 7.

the T-90S tanks that we use are literally knocked down versions of T-72 B with just a better fire control systems etc. but the gun is the same one used on T-72 B. and the armour is the same steel version of that of T-72 B.

so we don't even have good armour tank or a good gun until now. thats why local kanchan armour is used on T-90S. thats why our T-90S are heavier than russian T-72 B even though T-72B has better and heavier gun.

thats why even russia has less than 300 T-90 that too MS with an APS hard kill.

T-72 B3 of russia >T-90S of india . also T-72 B3 is much cheaper than our T-90S.

we didn't even get 2A46 125mm gun during recent technology transfer.

even the army's FMBT programme failed. because no one is ready for TOT more than some 30-40%

our army is basically that one "character" that gets rejected all the time. no one would give atleast a reasonable Transfer of technology. be it the brits in 60s and 70s or soviets in 80s, 90s. russians in 2000s and 2010s. or even americans in any of their sold platforms.

kuroneko_cry.jpg

(if you knew, you should have supported DRDO right from the start, crying won't get you anywhere)



while its too tsundere to accept the weapon systems of DRDO.


in the end modi, rajnath sing and bureaucrats of MOD have tried so hard and pushed the 118 arjun MK1A on to the baboos of army that lick russian equipment.

basically its
corrupt bureaucrats vs army baaboos.

my guess is that army baaboos might made a condition with bureaucrats that they would accept arjun only if there is T-90S TOT. so it happened. so if in future any DRDO tank project fails, we have T-90S as standoff platform (which again is literally a T-72 B with kanchan armour and a bit better gun and fire control systems, engine etc and kontakt-5 ERA). it still doesn't have an heater or AC BTW.

we need to wait for the negative list. i'm sure tanks might be under negative list. its also another reason for army to have a standoff platform T-90S with some 70% TOT.


so yeah CONCLUSION.


FMBT = ARJUN MK2.

( GNMBT won't exist until atleast 2035-2040). even the requirements for GNMBT doesn't exist on paper. so another 10-20 yrs for GNMBT to be in service)(don't ask about mass production of GNMBT)

MK2 is a real project. not some fake news.

will mostly look like this. 6 wheels, 50 ton, 3 crew, auto loader, kanchan armour, advanced electronics, APS. ( commander sight and 12.7mm guns were made keeping MK2 in mind not MK1A. and that too by 2020. CLGM was ready by 2020 & etc.

1622483037343.png
 

Echo1Charlie

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I've a few doubts regarding Arjun MK1A
1. Does MK1A have NERA? Is that ERA on skirt? (I'm not a tank guy)
2. Actually how many MK1A will be procured? some sources says its 118 other says previous 124 order (of 2010) will be filled along with 118 at a revised cost boosting total order for MK1A to 242 (I think I've read something similar in Annual report by MoD but not sure). Interestingly an article written by an Indian Army Maj.gen (rtd) have a different opinion, in his article (here - https://finsindia.org/a-tankful-of-...ould-be-embraced-whole-heartedly-by-the-army/ ) he says that MK2 is under development and it's FMBT. any idea?
 

Echo1Charlie

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There's an CAG report which details comparative trials of Arjun and T90 (which shows in a table that parameters were relaxed for T90, someone has taken a screenshot and posted it on twitter); can anybody provide a link to that particular report? it was released sometimes in 2015 ( I searched but I couldn't find it, I'll try later but if I get a link to that it would a great help, it would be much appreciated!)
 

airstrike99

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There's an CAG report which details comparative trials of Arjun and T90 (which shows in a table that parameters were relaxed for T90, someone has taken a screenshot and posted it on twitter); can anybody provide a link to that particular report? it was released sometimes in 2015 ( I searched but I couldn't find it, I'll try later but if I get a link to that it would a great help, it would be much appreciated!)

look annexure XVIII and XIX
 

shuvo@y2k10

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I've a few doubts regarding Arjun MK1A
1. Does MK1A have NERA? Is that ERA on skirt? (I'm not a tank guy)
2. Actually how many MK1A will be procured? some sources says its 118 other says previous 124 order (of 2010) will be filled along with 118 at a revised cost boosting total order for MK1A to 242 (I think I've read something similar in Annual report by MoD but not sure). Interestingly an article written by an Indian Army Maj.gen (rtd) have a different opinion, in his article (here - https://finsindia.org/a-tankful-of-...ould-be-embraced-whole-heartedly-by-the-army/ ) he says that MK2 is under development and it's FMBT. any idea?
After the 1st batch of 124 were all delivered, The MK1A project was started in 2010 based on the 93 improvemnts stated by the Army. The Army expressed its intent to place 118 MK1A tanks if it completed successful trials. However, this was just intent, you can say an unofficial MoU. Media sources, wrongly attribute this as a final order. The first MK1A prototype came out on 2012 and it was basically a modified version of MK1 tank. Then the trials continued and were sucessfully completed in 2015-16. However, Army in 2016-17 insisted that the Turret and hull must be redesigned to reduce the weight, and missile firing with CLGM (minimum range 500 m) must be proved before a firm order can be given. The officials from DGMF, MOD, and DRDO met and decided to separate the programme, wherein MK1A will be given order as soon as posiible and redesigned MK2 (with 65 tons weight + missile firing capability) will be ordered later.
DRDO quickly resigned the Arjun into MK2 version and gave contract for assembling the hull and turret to Reliance (won through a tender). Reliance delivered those to HVF Avadhi begining on September 2018 itself.

However, both MK1A nad MK2 projects were brushed under the carpet, since priority for Army was convincing the GOI to order the remaining 458 T-90S from OFB (last batch from 1000 tank licencse building contract signed in 2007). This deal was cleared in 2018-19.
In Sept 2020, DRDO proved CLGM capbility from Arjun gun in trials.
Finally, Arjun MK1A another informal contract is signed in Feb 2021 between Army and DRDO, with PM being present. The formal contract (actual order) is stated to be signed within 2021-22 financial year. The deliveries can only begin 30 months after signing the actual contract.

Meanwhile in June 2021, Army issued RFI to global manufacturers for FRCV with unspecified weight class. This puts Arjun MK2's future in jeopardy.
 

Echo1Charlie

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After the 1st batch of 124 were all delivered, The MK1A project was started in 2010 based on the 93 improvemnts stated by the Army. The Army expressed its intent to place 118 MK1A tanks if it completed successful trials. However, this was just intent, you can say an unofficial MoU. Media sources, wrongly attribute this as a final order. The first MK1A prototype came out on 2012 and it was basically a modified version of MK1 tank. Then the trials continued and were sucessfully completed in 2015-16. However, Army in 2016-17 insisted that the Turret and hull must be redesigned to reduce the weight, and missile firing with CLGM (minimum range 500 m) must be proved before a firm order can be given. The officials from DGMF, MOD, and DRDO met and decided to separate the programme, wherein MK1A will be given order as soon as posiible and redesigned MK2 (with 65 tons weight + missile firing capability) will be ordered later.
DRDO quickly resigned the Arjun into MK2 version and gave contract for assembling the hull and turret to Reliance (won through a tender). Reliance delivered those to HVF Avadhi begining on September 2018 itself.

However, both MK1A nad MK2 projects were brushed under the carpet, since priority for Army was convincing the GOI to order the remaining 458 T-90S from OFB (last batch from 1000 tank licencse building contract signed in 2007). This deal was cleared in 2018-19.
In Sept 2020, DRDO proved CLGM capbility from Arjun gun in trials.
Finally, Arjun MK1A another informal contract is signed in Feb 2021 between Army and DRDO, with PM being present. The formal contract (actual order) is stated to be signed within 2021-22 financial year. The deliveries can only begin 30 months after signing the actual contract.

Meanwhile in June 2021, Army issued RFI to global manufacturers for FRCV with unspecified weight class. This puts Arjun MK2's future in jeopardy.
This is quite sad! It's pretty clear that Arjun's fate was sealed back in 2010!
In this aspect I've much respect for the Indian Navy
 

Curious droid

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Indian indigenous Arjun MBT development history is a facinating story of Indian quest to develop a formidable Tank.The article covers the design, development and operational use of Arjun Tank. FIDSNS is greatfull to Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) for its time and efforts to make this article.

The main battle tank MBT-80 which is now called MBT Arjun was conceived by the Indian Army after it realized the futility of its tanks mainly in desert conditions, during the 1971 war.

1972 – 1975


In October 1970 a symposium was held on the Indian Main Battle Tank (MBT) at Armoured Corps Center and School. It was attended by the representatives from Indian Army General Staff (GS), Defence Research and Development Organisation DRDO), Director General Quality Assurance (DGQA) and Department of Defence Production (DODP). The main aim of the symposium was to formulate GSQR for future Indian MBT.

The first draft of Qualitative Requirement (QR) was prepared by Armoured Corps Directorate and discussed with Vice Chief of Army Staff (VCOAS).

The first General Staff Qualitative Requirement (GSQR) was issued in August 1972 as QR No. 326 for the design and development of MBT. The QR 326 was not exhaustive and with regard to specifications but featured only skeleton specifications.

The design and development of MBT based on GSQR No. 326 was taken up by the Combat Vehicle Research and Development Establishment (CVRDE). The initial outlay of Rs. 15.50 Crore was sanctioned vide the Government of India (GOI) letter dated 02 May, 1974. Project Development Certification (PDC) of the project was 10 years from the date of sanction.

The MBT was to be designed around imported engine as the design and development experience to create a tank engine was not available within the time frame of the project. In 1974, DRDO had to take up design and development of a tank engine as Government of India could not import a tank engine because of political and other reasons.

1975 -1980

DRDO prepared the system configuration of the tank. Indigenous engine hardware was assembled and motoring test commenced by 1979. Indigenous suspension and transmission hardware was ready for development test. The main 115mm armament was developed and trials were carried out for proof at Balasore ranges. The gun system and fire control system design was configured. One prototype hull in mild steel was fabricated to check the fitment and assembly.

In April 1978, the Indian Army called DRDO for a meeting for mutual discussions. The aim was to change the GSQR No. 326. A series of meetings between DRDO and Indian Army, chaired by VCOAS resulted in change in GSQR. The new GSQR bearing the number 431 was issued in August 1982.

The changes in the GSQR No. 431 were

a)Increase in width and weight
b)110/115mm gun was to be replaced with a 120mm gun.
c)Improved Sighting and Fire Control system.


Essentially it meant creation of entirely new design and systems. A sum of Rs. 56.55 Crores was obtained mainly to cater to cater to GSQR changes and price escalation due to inflation/ rise in import costs.

The PDC of the project was revised. The first prototype was to be built by October 1980 and subsequently 12 prototypes were to be developed, one in every 6 months.

The indigenous engine and transmission evaluation on dynamometer was carried out during 1979-81.

As already mentioned that the country had no experience in building an basic internal combustion engine. The tank engine development slipped as this engine was to be made after experimenting with basics of an internal combustion engine. Project of this scale was almost impossible for nascent Indian research laboratories. By this time, the western governments had shown willingness to supply the engines. A decision was taken to import a limited number of engines (also called "power packs") from M/S MTU, Germany. For the fitment On Mark 1 (Mk 1) prototypes so as not to let the development schedule of the MBT slip.

Initially MTU supplied a 700hp engine for fitment trials and subsequently supplied 1100hp engine for prototypes. The MTU was also developing a 1400hp engine as per the specifications laid down by CVRDE.

The first prototype of the MBT was developed based on GSQR No. 326 of 1972 and No. 431 of 1982.

The prototype was subjected to limited technical trials by DRDO at Avadi and Jodhpur desert area.

Subsequently, few more prototypes were produced with different configuration by 1985.

In the initial development phase, suspension, running gear and other automotive systems were being evaluated with 1100 hp engine.

1985 – 1990

There had been significant enhancement in the battle tank technologies world wide and there was a possibility of these tanks being introduced in the Indian Sub Continent. This prompted Indian Army to change its GSQR and in November 1985, third GSQR No. 467 was issued. The changes in GSQR were:

a)More lethal gun of 120mm caliber.
b)Requirement of Fin Stabilized Armour Piercing Discarding Sabot (FSAPDS)
c)Development of Semi Combustible Cartridge cases and high energy propellant.
d)Integrated Fire Control System based on sight stabilized system with periscopic gunner sight.
e)Thermal Imaging system for gunner's main sight for night fighting capabilities.
f)Provision of "Kanchan Armour" for enhanced immunity.


In addition following conditions were in the new GSQR:

"¢Manufacture of 23 Pre production Series (PPS) Tanks to enable full scale troop trials and after that smooth transfer technology (TOT) to a production agency.
"¢Setting of Armoured Fighting Vehicle (AFV) evaluation center and augmentation of infrastructure facilities.
"¢Realistic assessment of technical and user trial.
"¢Import of engines for prototypes and PPS.

The revised financial implication because of the new GSQR was Rs. 280.80 Crores which was issued in 1987. The GSQR escalated the cost of materials, stores and the import cost spiraled due to weakening Rupee.

The development of the tank was progressed with reference to the new GSQR. DRDO had to re – design the structure of chassis/ hull. The turret had to be designed again to cater to improved armour protection and a high power to weight ratio power pack. The MBT now also to feature Nuclear Biological and Chemical (NBC) warfare and protection system, Medium Fording capability, auxiliary power unit (APU), Laser Warning System (LWS) and Global Positioning System (GPS).

The period of 1985 – 1990 was significant in history of Arjun Tank for the progressive evolution of a number of systems through exhaustive field testing. A total of 12 Arjun Tank prototypes were built in order to prove the design, development and system integration of a number of systems through field testing.

The integration of first prototype with a proper 1400 hp engine was accomplished in 1989. During the automotive trials of the prototypes a total of 20,000 Kilometer run in various terrain. Arjun MBT covered 11000 kilometers in dessert terrain and 1000 kilometers in river bed terrain. The weapon system was also tested by firing 540 FSAPDS and 560 HESH.

1990 – 1995

The confidence of DRDO had built up with these prototypes and many improvements were made.

The first batch of 6 PPS tanks had got manufactured through Heavy Vehicles Factory (HVF) in Avadi, Bharat Heavy Electricals Limited (BHEL) and Bharat Earth Movers Limited (BEML), each two PPS tanks. Indent for manufacture of manufacture of 9 more PPS tanks by HVF was released to HVF in December 1992.

MBT Arjun was formally inducted into Indian Army in 1993 with these 6 tanks. The performance of PPS tanks were demonstrated to the Defence Minister, COAS and the members of the Parliament in February 1993.

The PPS tanks were put through grueling tests by the field formations covering several thousand kilometers of automotive runs on various terrains and firing hundreds of rounds per tank to establish the efficiency of the Arjun tank.

The status of the Arjun Tank was reviewed by the COAS in May 1994 and "bottom line requirements" were laid down. After the completion of the 1994 trials on MBT Arjun, a presentation was made to the COAS and he laid down "Imperatives" in August 1994.

All the additional 9 PPS tanks were handed over to Army progressively and the final handing over of the 9th PPS Tank to Army happened in 1996. The last PPS tank (i.e. XV) incorporating improvements as suggested by the Army and with add on features viz. APU, NBC, Medium Fording Capability was demonstrated to COAS and users at Avadi.

The PPS Tanks delivered to the Army during this period had covered 70,000 kilometers of automotive trials and fired 7000 rounds. The average kilometer run by a PPS tank was 4500 kilometers and 460 rounds fired from each tank.

DRDO addressed the bottom line requirements and imperatives as demanded by the COAS. The overall design of the Arjun Tank was cleared.

1995 – 2000

A set of dedicated trials as directed by the COAS was carried out during August – December 1995 successfully.

The Prime Minister P.V Narsimha Rao dedicated the MBT Arjun to the nation in January 1996.

The Army designated the XV PPS tank as the reference tank for production.

In the year 1997, 11 PPS tanks participated in Indian Army Exercise "AGNIR.ATI-t." (A clarification on the name of the exercise is needed. It could be Exercise Agnirathi). 10 Arjun Tanks successfully completed the exercise. But the Army again came back with suggestions and modifications. In November 1997, the final list of suggested modifications and "joint Action Plan" for the implementation and certification was drafted. DRDO implemented the modification to the satisfaction of the Indian Army.

The Indian Amy again put the improved tanks to trials. The 43rd Armoured Regiment conducted the automotive trials. The trials were successful and Arjun tank was brought ready for full scale production.

The Arjun MBT project was successfully closed at Rupees 305 Crores. The final acceptance by the Indian Army led to placement of order for 124 Arjun Tanks in 2002.

DRDO transferred the design and other drawings to the manufacturing agency HVF in 2002.

The Authorised Holder of the Sealed Particulars is with DRDO till certain maturity level is reached in production, i.e, the first 30 tanks produced by HVF will have quality control certified by DRDO. After that Arjun Tank will be certified by DGQA.

The Future

The Arjun Tank had its detractors in form of internal rivalry of the users, the Indian arms import lobby and media seeking sensationalism. Since India did not have any Tank design experience and many defence experts expressed doubts about the viability of the Arjun Tank project when it started and questioned the capability of the CVRDE to design and develop tanks. DRDO took these challenges and ever shifting qualitative requirements, in stride. Pending a political decision, currently DRDO is gearing up for the development of Arjun Mark-2 Tanks (Arjun Mk.2).
Do u have the citation link for this article .
 

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