Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

[Kunal Biswas]

Sir, Didn't noticed its a 2008 production tank, but picture is new..

sir it says 2008 production tank.

 

[vram]

Sir, Didn't noticed its a 2008 production tank, but picture is new..

I live near the Avadi tank factory, Chennai . Kunal sir are you aware if the Arjun production is still going on?? probably I can try and get some pictures during the weekend. Though don't know how the security for photography is around the compound....

 

[cobra commando]

^^ That would be Awesome if you can get some pics, go for it buddy..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

If took pass me at my email, I will cover the rest except the tank..

Few months back Army reported to have 110 out of 124, So its possible there are few in making..

I live near the Avadi tank factory, Chennai . Kunal sir are you aware if the Arjun production is still going on?? probably I can try and get some pictures during the weekend. Though don't know how the security for photography is around the compound....

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can't the 155mm 52 caliber tata gun be integrated with arjun chassis to complete the bhim project?

Its the same gun, No problems..

 

[sasi]

 

[sasi]

 

[t_co]

Is the unrefueled operating range of the Arjun Mk 2 the same as the operating range of the Arjun Mk 1?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Such information is not disclosed yet, but both MK-1/2 use same engines..

Is the unrefueled operating range of the Arjun Mk 2 the same as the operating range of the Arjun Mk 1?

 

[t_co]

Such information is not disclosed yet, but both MK-1/2 use same engines..

This could be a problem. Would make a lot more sense for IA to worry less about the main gun or fire control, and think about extending the unrefueled operating range past 450km. Not because the Arjun isn't fast or can't go far, but because if they can extend the operating range, they can increase the operational tempo of an Arjun-equipped unit; instead of being refuelled three times a day, it can be refuelled only twice a day, etc.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

1. Who told you 1400hp is a problem.. ?

2. What is fuel consumption of MTU 1400HP engine on average..?

3. What is Arjun MK-1/2 fuel capacity.. ?

4. And how many times Arjun need refueling again ?

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Go through the thread before dumping your conclusions here..

This could be a problem. think about extending the unrefueled operating range past 450km. they can increase the operational tempo of an Arjun-equipped unit; instead of being refuelled three times a day, it can be refuelled only twice a day, etc.

 

[t_co]

1. Who told you 1400hp is a problem.. ?

2. What is fuel consumption of MTU 1400HP engine on average..?

3. What is Arjun MK-1/2 fuel capacity.. ?

4. And how many times Arjun need refueling again ?

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Go through the thread before dumping your conclusions here..

1. No one said 1400hp is a problem. The problem is not in the speed or power of the engine, but the fuel consumption relative to the fuel tank.

2. The Arjun Mk 1 has a 450 km operating range. The Arjun Mk 2 uses the same engine and same fuel capacity. Therefore, it is logical to assume a similar operating range, assuming a 10% minimum fuel buffer.

3. The Arjun Mk 1 and 2 carry 1610 L of fuel.

4. The Arjun Mk 1 needs refuelling every 450 km of road travel. This may be less if the Mk 1 is travelling over rough terrain or at combat speeds. If the tank is traveling at 50-60 km/h, then it will need refuelling about every 8 hours.

 

[t_co]

Basically, with a tank as fuel-hungry as the Arjun, the IA will have to ensure uncontested air supremacy in order to implement the Cold Start, or else Pakistani Air Force bombings of Indian resupply routes will quickly strand the armored battlegroups in the middle of the Pakistani desert.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

1. Don't repeat the same sentence, what is asked is what is the fuel consumptions for MTU-1400HP engine ??..

2. Who told you MK2 carry same or less or more fuel ?

3. Who told you again that 450km of fuel consumption is with combat load on rough terrain or plain with combat load ?

You are claiming some thing provide link to support your claims ..

1.Fuel consumption relative to the fuel tank.

2.The Arjun Mk 1 and 2 carry 1610 L of fuel.

4. The Arjun Mk 1 needs refuelling every 450 km of road travel. This may be less if the Mk 1 is travelling over rough terrain or at combat speeds. If the tank is traveling at 50-60 km/h, then it will need refuelling about every 8 hours.

 

[t_co]

1. Don't repeat the same sentence, what is asked is what is the fuel consumptions for MTU-1400HP engine ??..

2. Who told you MK2 carry same or less or more fuel ?

3. Who told you again that 450km of fuel consumption is with combat load on rough terrain or plain with combat load ?

You are claiming some thing provide link to support your claims ..

Arjun Mk-II, India tank - My Wordpress Blog on Quality Weapon

Specifications :

Weight :58.5 tonnes (57.6 long tons; 64.5 short tons)
Length :10.638 metres (34 ft 10.8 in)
Width :3.864 metres (12 ft 8.1 in)
Height :2.32 metres (7 ft 7 in)
Crew :4 (commander, gunner, loader and driver)
Armor :steel/composite Kanchan armour.
Main armament: 120 mm rifled tank gun LAHAT anti-tank missile HEAT, APFSDS, HESH Rounds
Secondary armament: HCB 12.7 mm AA MG, Mag 7.62 mm Tk715 coaxial MG
Engine: MTU 838 Ka 501 diesel 1,400 hp (1,040 kW)
Power/weight: 23.9hp/tonne,
Transmission :Renk epicyclic train gearbox, 4 fwd + 2 rev gears
Suspension :hydropneumatic
Ground clearance: 0.45 metres (1 ft 6 in)
Fuel capacity :1,610 litres (350 imp gal; 430 US gal)
Operational range :450 kilometres (280 mi)
Speed: 72 km/h (45 mph) Road 40 km/h (25 mph) Cross country

 

[Damian]

~450km range is preaty normal for MBT's with Diesel engines.

For example it is said that M1 after modernization with replacing AGT-1500C GT engine with MB883 Diesel, will have a range of 482km with current fuel tanks configuration which means 1,900l of fuel.

IMHO the engine fuel efficency and range are things that should not be seen as Arjun weak sides.

 

[t_co]

~450km range is preaty normal for MBT's with Diesel engines.

For example it is said that M1 after modernization with replacing AGT-1500C GT engine with MB883 Diesel, will have a range of 482km with current fuel tanks configuration which means 1,900l of fuel.

IMHO the engine fuel efficency and range are things that should not be seen as Arjun weak sides.

IIRC the T-90 has a 600-700km unrefueled radius and the Leopard 2 has a 550km unrefueled radius. The M1 is another notorious fuel hog (it was the first vehicle in the US to be measured in "gallons per mile" rather than "miles per gallon"), so it's not a good example to benchmark the Arjun against.

Again, the point here isn't that the Arjun is a bad tank for being fuel-hungry; it's that the IA needs to change its resupply and logistics doctrine if it wants to actually use the Arjun to maximum effectiveness. Right now the IA still uses Russian logistics doctrine, which concentrates logistical support at the corps level and parcels it out to divisions and brigades as needed, instead of putting more trucks at the brigade or battalion level. While that works if you're using Russian tanks that have long operating ranges, it doesn't work if you're using the Arjun.

 

[Damian]

IIRC the T-90 has a 600-700km unrefueled radius and the Leopard 2 has a 550km unrefueled radius. The M1 is another notorious fuel hog (it was the first vehicle in the US to be measured in "gallons per mile" rather than "miles per gallon"), so it's not a good example to benchmark the Arjun against.

And you count T-90 with internal fuel only? No you use data for tank with additional external fuel tanks, that are never used in battle conditions, where contact with enemy is possible. NATO tanks use only internal fuel tanks, external fuel tanks are rarity.

You better improve your knowledge.

Again, the point here isn't that the Arjun is a bad tank for being fuel-hungry; it's that the IA needs to change its resupply and logistics doctrine if it wants to actually use the Arjun to maximum effectiveness. Right now the IA still uses Russian logistics doctrine, which concentrates logistical support at the corps level and parcels it out to divisions and brigades as needed, instead of putting more trucks at the brigade or battalion level. While that works if you're using Russian tanks that have long operating ranges, it doesn't work if you're using the Arjun.

T-xx series have similiar range when using internal fuel tanks only.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Open Blog is not Creditable Source..

Specs are of Arjun MK-1 and even so errors in it ..

Arjun Mk-II, India tank - My Wordpress Blog on Quality Weapony

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I dont see there is any problems with that, Besides IA dont follow any western or eastern logistics supply network but a customize and a more flexible as per need, Now whoever or from where ever you read that is incorrect data ..

Again, the point here isn't that the Arjun is a bad tank for being fuel-hungry; it's that the IA needs to change its resupply and logistics doctrine if it wants to actually use the Arjun to maximum effectiveness. Right now the IA still uses Russian logistics doctrine, which concentrates logistical support at the corps level and parcels it out to divisions and brigades as needed, instead of putting more trucks at the brigade or battalion level. While that works if you're using Russian tanks that have long operating ranges, it doesn't work if you're using the Arjun.

 

[t_co]

Open Blog is not Creditable Source..

Specs are of Arjun MK-1 and even so errors in it ..

Fair enough. That was the source I was working off of. If they're wrong, then the point shifts to an open question on the operating range of the Arjun Mk II.

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I dont see there is any problems with that, Besides IA dont follow any western or eastern logistics supply network but a customize and a more flexible as per need, Now whoever or from where ever you read that is incorrect data ..

Actually, I'm curious here--in the latest Cold Start IBG doctrine, the IA was stated to follow a late-Soviet model of heavily equipped but relatively 'bare-bones' operational maneuver groups in forming its IBGs. What that means is that the IBG will have loads of tanks and combat vehicles but be lightweight in terms of resupply and 'soft assets'. Does it mean something different? If so, what?

 

[sayareakd]

Fair enough. That was the source I was working off of. If they're wrong, then the point shifts to an open question on the operating range of the Arjun Mk II.



Actually, I'm curious here--in the latest Cold Start IBG doctrine, the IA was stated to follow a late-Soviet mTEodel of heavily equipped but relatively 'bare-bones' operational maneuver groups in forming its IBGs. What that means is that the IBG will have loads of tanks and combat vehicles but be lightweight in terms of resupply and 'soft assets'. Does it mean something different? If so, what?

Test are going on for Arjun MK2 therefore you cant say that it has operational range until it clear trial first by DRDO and then by Army. Same standards are not applicable to T90MS.

If you want to discuss cold start please do so in different thread.