AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[Anony86]

Re: Kaveri Engine

In case of LCA the Prototypes also used GE 404

And finally Kaveri was delinked with LCA because LCA is Ready with IOC 2 And FOC
coming up but Kaveri is Invisible

Same thing will happen with AMCA

History will Repeat itself

K 10 will Not happen BUT AMCA will be ready to go with AL 41

So Mate Suppose in 2025 if AMCA is Held up JUST because of an Indigeneous engine what should we do then

And How will the PROTOTYPES of AMCA be made

Russia is Using SU 35 Engine for PAK FA prototypes
because AL 41 is Not ready yet

Dude AMCA can perform it's test flight with present Kaveri engine or the one that will be available by 2018-19. We still have 12 years (till 2025) to develop a engine. I am not saying it will be better than other 5th gen engine but the point is, it will be ours.

Secondly, for AMCA there are other critical technologies too which need to be developed successfully. These will take time and there is little doubt that this may delay the entire by 4-5 years.

Thirdly, no country in the world has produced a 5th gen engine which will be compatible with AMCA.

Fourthly, if you look by one complete new engine it looks bigger challenge but if you break it down we just need to develop 4-5 major technologies

1. Compressor

2. Even better Single crystal Blade

3. Lighter Alloys which can withstand higher temperature (real challenge)

4. Technology to shed the heat signature

 

[SajeevJino]

Re: Kaveri Engine

Thirdly, no country in the world has produced a 5th gen engine which will be compatible with AMCA.

Phartt & Whitney

4. Technology to shed the heat signature

LCA believes lowest RCS ..and don't know It's Cruise speed ..where FGFA believed can achieve mach 1+ cruise

 

[Anony86]

Re: Kaveri Engine

Phartt & Whitney

Which model sir?

 

[Decklander]

There will be no AMCA, before that there will be GHOST operational and far superior to AMCA & JSF.

 

[SajeevJino]

Re: Kaveri Engine

Which model sir?

Please No more Sir ..I'm Just a kid Here ..


I mean the one Powering the F 22


Phartt& Whitney F119

 

[Anony86]

Re: Kaveri Engine

Please No more Sir ..I'm Just a kid Here ..


I mean the one Powering the F 22


Phartt& Whitney F119

Firstly I didn't told you sir for showing respect or counting on your experience as I may be knew here but whole lot of experienced. Rather I mentioned "Sir" in evisceration. (To remove your faulty claim) No offence

Secondly, F-119 engine is way heavier some 1800kg. Not suitable for 1100kg specification and smaller size engine requirement of AMCA

Thirdly, in my above post where I mentioned shedding heat signature, it is that of engine. F-404 and 5th gen engine are in complete different league.

 

[rvjpheonix]

There will be no AMCA, before that there will be GHOST operational and far superior to AMCA & JSF.

Sir what is GHOST?

 

[SajeevJino]

Re: Kaveri Engine

Secondly, F-119 engine is way heavier some 1800kg. Not suitable for 1100kg specification and smaller size engine requirement of AMCA

Thirdly, in my above post where I mentioned shedding heat signature, it is that of engine. F-404 and 5th gen engine are in complete different league.

Designing AMCA as Medium class is waste of money That's why Ministry put it on Hold. and there is No problem for selecting Engines for AMCA ..If we go for AMCA it took much more money and Time Investing money on AMCA is better to invest in F 35 .Where we already selected our 5th gen Fighter FGFA there is no need of AMCA we have LCA MK 2 there Rafale there both are low RCS in their Generation

More over Heat signature in engines not a Matter if you getting locked by heat seekers is there any problem to Super cruise your Jet to evade from Enemy engage

 

[sayareakd]

Re: Kaveri Engine

Designing AMCA as Medium class is waste of money That's why Ministry put it on Hold. and there is No problem for selecting Engines for AMCA ..If we go for AMCA it took much more money and Time Investing money on AMCA is better to invest in F 35 .Where we already selected our 5th gen Fighter FGFA there is no need of AMCA we have LCA MK 2 there Rafale there both are low RCS in their Generation

More over Heat signature in engines not a Matter if you getting locked by heat seekers is there any problem to Super cruise your Jet to evade from Enemy engage

AMCA is put on hold officially as GOI first want DRDO and HAL to deliver LCA with FOC, only then they should go for second aircaft. Whole team which build LCA after lca development is finished will be waste of knowledge learn and we are going to be taken by granted to who so ever give us 5g, 6g and future fighters. R&D is never waste of money if spend it wisely and learn from it.

 

[Anony86]

Re: Kaveri Engine

Designing AMCA as Medium class is waste of money That's why Ministry put it on Hold. and there is No problem for selecting Engines for AMCA ..If we go for AMCA it took much more money and Time Investing money on AMCA is better to invest in F 35 .Where we already selected our 5th gen Fighter FGFA there is no need of AMCA we have LCA MK 2 there Rafale there both are low RCS in their Generation

More over Heat signature in engines not a Matter if you getting locked by heat seekers is there any problem to Super cruise your Jet to evade from Enemy engage

From Industry point of view:

Since we can't be dependent on foreign products, it is very important to have our own alternative. If not AMCA, then the indigenous aviation industry will be closed forever. Same what happened after 'Hunter' or Marut-24.

From Economic point of view:

We will need more than 400 5th gen fighters by 2035. If we go by present trend, FGFA will cost above $150 million per plane. Here if we can have a indigenous alternative with less than or equal to $100 million, it will be awesome.

From need point of view:

As Indian doctrine is designed with a mixture of Heavy-Medium-Light weight fighters, there will be a requirement in excess of 300 or close to 350 medium weight fighters, 126 Rafale we will have and we will require another 200+ medium weight fighters, And since AMCA will be indigenous it will come in the same price or less what Rafale is costing today. And never compare Rafale with any 5th gen machine It's because nobody is bothered with clean RCS figure. Once Rafale will be loaded with weapon,all those RCS figure will go away.


From weapon carrying point of view:


It is equally important. Mig 29M can carry close to 5.5 ton of weapon with close to 13.5 ton empty weight whereas LCA mk2 will able to carry 5ton of weapon with clse to 7ton of empty weight.Similarly AMCA will able to carry in excess of 8ton of weapon and equal amount of weapon on its internal weapon bay as F-35.

 

[p2prada]

Re: Kaveri Engine

Thirdly, no country in the world has produced a 5th gen engine which will be compatible with AMCA.

EJ-200 and M88-3.

 

[Anony86]

Re: Kaveri Engine

EJ-200 and M88-3.

Those are not 5th gen engine dear. And none of them produce thrust required for AMCA (75KN/100KN)

 

[p2prada]

Re: Kaveri Engine

Those are not 5th gen engine dear. And none of them produce thrust required for AMCA (75KN/100KN)

They are both 5th gen dear.

EJ-200 has been developed to give a T/W of 12:1 and so is the M88-3.

Both engines are advertised as 5th gen. They only have to be developed to handle radar blockers from either sides, which I am sure they must have taken it into account during development.

EJ-200 provides thrust anywhere between 85KN and 120KN. M88-3 is designed to provide thrust between 75KN and greater than 100KN. Both fit the description.

 

[Twinblade]

Re: Kaveri Engine

EJ-200 provides thrust anywhere between 85KN and 120KN

EJ 200 design has a growth potential of as much as 30%, however it requires some serious funding to achieve those levels. The proposed 75/110 KN Kaveri has to have those thrust levels from the outset with a minimum of 5% growth potential. A very very ambitious call considering that it has to finish static testing within 5 years of selection of development partner ~ 2018. It has to be an entirely new design as the inlet dia has been reduced from 910 mm to a maximum of 780mm, which means if the airframe is being designed keeping 75/110 KN kaveri in mind, using M-88 (900 mm) and GE-414 (890mm) for preliminary testing till the engine is ready is out of the question as they would be significantly wider. The only engine they can use off the shelf would be EJ 200 with its 737mm dia.

 

[TrueSpirit]

Re: Kaveri Engine

AMCA is put on hold officially as GOI first want DRDO and HAL to deliver LCA with FOC, only then they should go for second aircaft. Whole team which build LCA after lca development is finished will be waste of knowledge learn and we are going to be taken by granted to who so ever give us 5g, 6g and future fighters. R&D is never waste of money if spend it wisely and learn from it.

Well, as per @ersakthivel, AMCA is not on-hold, in the first place, as It is being run by a separate team that has no business with LCA team@ADA.

 

[sayareakd]

Re: Kaveri Engine

Well, as per @ersakthivel, AMCA is not on-hold, in the first place, as It is being run by a separate team that has no business with LCA team@ADA.

I did mention that it was put on hold Officially unofficially they can do what ever they want. Executive cannot overrule political elected masters. It will send bad example. Hope you understand what i am saying.

 

[p2prada]

Re: Kaveri Engine

EJ 200 design has a growth potential of as much as 30%, however it requires some serious funding to achieve those levels. The proposed 75/110 KN Kaveri has to have those thrust levels from the outset with a minimum of 5% growth potential. A very very ambitious call considering that it has to finish static testing within 5 years of selection of development partner ~ 2018.

The AMCA program does not require a 120KN engine. The current EJ-200 alone will suffice as far as thrust is concerned.

The only engine they can use off the shelf would be EJ 200 with its 737mm dia.

These things change. I suppose we will know when we will. I am not familiar with this requirement anyway.

Well, as per @ersakthivel, AMCA is not on-hold, in the first place, as It is being run by a separate team that has no business with LCA team@ADA.

He types a lot of nonsense. Don't take him seriously. There is a reason why all senior members simply ignore him.

AMCA is on hold. They have moved all their manpower into LCA program because of a new unrealistic deadline which they are hoping to meet before Anthony saar leaves office.

 

[rvjpheonix]

Re: Kaveri Engine

I did mention that it was put on hold Officially unofficially they can do what ever they want. Executive cannot overrule political elected masters. It will send bad example. Hope you understand what i am saying.

But there has only been a news report from a private newspaper citing "sources." Where is the official confirmation by ADA or government agency?

 

[Twinblade]

Re: Kaveri Engine

The AMCA program does not require a 120KN engine. The current EJ-200 alone will suffice as far as thrust is concerned.

These things change. I suppose we will know when we will. I am not familiar with this requirement anyway.

DRDO
^^ Click on Form & Spec 1 link on this page.

Design and development of three stage 5:1 pressure ratio all Blisk fan for 75/110 kN thrust class engine. The broad design
specifications and constraints are defined as below.

Parameter	Value	Constraint
Max inlet diameter	As needed by the designer	~ 780 mm

The current EJ 200 shall not suffice in terms of thrust that is being looked at.

 

[Payeng]

There is nothing like adequate dry/military thrust for a combat aircraft engine, but yes one is need list and other is the wish list.