AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[MirageBlue]

Should be somewhat accurate, no?

 

[Bleh]

Should be somewhat accurate, no?

Looks latest..

 

[Tactical Doge]

Looks latest..

What's under on the chin?
Side facing radars like Su-57?

 

[Bleh]

What's under on the chin?
Side facing radars like Su-57?

I wouldn't know if it were..

 

[pipebomb]

Is there any point in officially launching the project until an engine has been secured? If there is no deal on an engine for Mk2 (India says "no" or RR says "no") does AMCA Mk1 go ahead anyway?

Couldn't agree more. There are primarily three main components to 5th gen fighter IMHO. These are stealth shaping with internal weapons bay, High power & efficient engines to future proof power supply needs and enable supercruise & third is avionics. Without any of these components it cannot be called a true 5th gen aircraft( as j-20 & su-57 until they received their new engines)

 

[pipebomb]

There are three things India has to keep in mind with their dealings with RR

1) That we get a true clean sheet 5th gen engine and not some modded ej200 or variant of it.

2) Contract for engine with RR should be thorough, time bound & shouldn't contain any grey area.

3) There should be significant pecuniary consequences for any future deviation from contract.

 

[lixun]

There are three things India has to keep in mind with their dealings with RR

1) That we get a true clean sheet 5th gen engine and not some modded ej200 or variant of it.

2) Contract for engine with RR should be thorough, time bound & shouldn't contain any grey area.

3) There should be significant pecuniary consequences for any future deviation from contract.

The EJ200 is the fifth-generation engine, one of the best engines in the century. It is the same generation as the F135 and F119. If India can obtain the EJ230, it will fully meet the needs of AMCA.
In fact, it is impossible for RR to hand over the core technology of the engine to India. The British are not stupid.
The only way for engine technology is to spend a lot of money to develop and experiment. The development of WS10 took China 20 billion U.S. dollars and 30 years. We only caught up with the level of the United States in 1980.

 

[Kalkioftoday]

The EJ200 is the fifth-generation engine, one of the best engines in the century. It is the same generation as the F135 and F119. If India can obtain the EJ230, it will fully meet the needs of AMCA.
In fact, it is impossible for RR to hand over the core technology of the engine to India. The British are not stupid.
The only way for engine technology is to spend a lot of money to develop and experiment. The development of WS10 took China 20 billion U.S. dollars and 30 years. We only caught up with the level of the United States in 1980.

Yup EJ200 is a very advance engine indeed. But the sad thing is it isn't maas produced as GE F414. Anyway india have to spend billions in R&D no matter what

 

[pipebomb]

The EJ200 is the fifth-generation engine, one of the best engines in the century. It is the same generation as the F135 and F119. If India can obtain the EJ230, it will fully meet the needs of AMCA.
In fact, it is impossible for RR to hand over the core technology of the engine to India. The British are not stupid.
The only way for engine technology is to spend a lot of money to develop and experiment. The development of WS10 took China 20 billion U.S. dollars and 30 years. We only caught up with the level of the United States in 1980.

I agree and i prefer India not to go any jv route instead should take up this project like atv project under pmo & heavily invest to built up infra.

 

[Kalkioftoday]

I agree and i prefer India not to go any jv route instead should take up this project like atv project under pmo & heavily invest to built up infra.

You can't solve every problem in the world just by throwing money, which we don't spend enough actually. You have to keep in mind about the cost and the timeline of the engine. DRDO has master a lot of engine tech but it isn't enough to produce an efficient engine and that's why we are going with this JV route. An JV with RR will give us a lot of expertise just like our JV with russia for Brahmos missile. A JV will be blessings for us.

 

[pipebomb]

You can't solve every problem in the world just by throwing money, which we don't spend enough actually. You have to keep in mind about the cost and the timeline of the engine. DRDO has master a lot of engine tech but it isn't enough to produce an efficient engine and that's why we are going with this JV route. An JV with RR will give us a lot of expertise just like our JV with russia for Brahmos missile. A JV will be blessings for us.

IMHO it will meet the same fate as safran jv. Some things can't be bought, you have to take the long arduous path, no shortcuts like our atv program. We half-assed our Kaveri development by bean counting and dithering, imagine building a fighter class jet engine for the first time without high altitude test facilities or any flying testbeds

 

[WARREN SS]

The EJ200 is the fifth-generation engine, one of the best engines in the century. It is the same generation as the F135 and F119. If India can obtain the EJ230, it will fully meet the needs of AMCA.
In fact, it is impossible for RR to hand over the core technology of the engine to India. The British are not stupid.
The only way for engine technology is to spend a lot of money to develop and experiment. The development of WS10 took China 20 billion U.S. dollars and 30 years. We only caught up with the level of the United States in 1980.

India will fund research in its own engine Kaveri project
Which started 25 years ago

Kaveri right now is at level of Intial stage of GE 404

Generating After burning close to 81 kN.

That to spending after close 1 billion $

In future DRDO is planning to Transfer technology to private sector
To increase joint R&D into Future variant

Goal is to Develop Engine Class of GE 414
That will Fitting into AMCA mk2
Time envelop is 2035

 

[Kalkioftoday]

IMHO it will meet the same fate as safran jv. Some things can't be bought, you have to take the long arduous path, no shortcuts like our atv program. We half-assed our Kaveri development by bean counting and dithering, imagine building a fighter class jet engine for the first time without high altitude test facilities or any flying testbeds

What JV you're talking about? We never had any JV with Safran. There was a time when safran in order to revive kaveri engine offered to replace kaveri's hot core with M88s' and also asked for a lot of money but DRDO never agreed as DRDO would've lost the IP of the new engine and every new kaveri we buy for our drones we have to give a hefty amount as royalties to Safran.

 

[pipebomb]

IMHO whenever AMCA come it has to exceed or atleast match Rafale variant in IAF use at that time be it f4, f5 etc.

So it would be prudent not to waste money and time on irrelevant things like tvc and focus on avionics, ew, radar etc.

Also i think India should try to include eots like system from design stage in AMCA it will enable to fully live up to its potential of being 5th gen aircraft. India can go jv route with Israel in this particular case. Remember IAF wants AMCA to be a multirole aircraft not an air superiority.

 

[Spitfire9]

India will fund research in its own engine Kaveri project
Which started 25 years ago

Kaveri right now is at level of Intial stage of GE 404

Generating After burning close to 81 kN.

That to spending after close 1 billion $

In future DRDO is planning to Transfer technology to private sector
To increase joint R&D into Future variant

Goal is to Develop Engine Class of GE 414
That will Fitting into AMCA mk2
Time envelop is 2035

I don't think the goal is to develop a 98kN engine. That is insufficient for AMCA Mk2.

I think the goal is to develop a 110kN class engine where India can (a) build it in India (b) sell it to any customer India chooses.

 

[WARREN SS]

I don't think the goal is to develop a 98kN engine. That is insufficient for AMCA Mk2.

I think the goal is to develop a 110kN class engine where India can (a) build it in India (b) sell it to any customer India chooses.

New Enhanced version of GE 414 has 26000 lbs or 116 Kn thrust .

The AMCA will be Equipped with it

 

[Spitfire9]

New Enhanced version of GE 414 has 26000 lbs or 116 Kn thrust .

The AMCA will be Equipped with it

View attachment 106749

The GE blurb says the E will have 116kN thrust. Unless GE has decided to go ahead with it thanks to US government financing for a US military order, it will not have 116kN thrust because it won't be made. Unless India is so misguided as to pay GE several $ billion to develop it.

If it is going ahead, great. Gives India a suitable engine for Mk2 and another decade or two to develop an indigenous/JV engine.

 

[WARREN SS]

The GE blurb says the E will have 116kN thrust. Unless GE has decided to go ahead with it thanks to US government financing for a US military order, it will not have 116kN thrust because it won't be made. Unless India is so misguided as to pay GE several $ billion to develop it

GE already pitching it for MLU of Glowler's and Hornets Upgrade

So it doesn't matter if india takes part it or not

It's also offered for OCRA/TEDBF

 

[Spitfire9]

GE already pitching it for MLU of Glowler's and Hornets Upgrade

So it doesn't matter if india takes part it or not

It's also offered for OCRA/TEDBF

My point is that it does not exist. Given funding, it can exist in the future. Sure, that will happen if it is selected for F/A-18. If...

PS When a decision is taken on E matters, too. India does not want to agree not to agree with RR at the end of this year then to find that USN has declined to pay for 414E - leaving India with still no engine for Mk2.

 

[WARREN SS]

My point is that it does not exist. Given funding, it can exist in the future. Sure, that will happen if it is selected for F/A-18. If...

PS When a decision is taken on E matters, too. India does not want to agree not to agree with RR at the end of this year then to find that USN has declined to pay for 414E - leaving India with still no engine for Mk2.

India will by then develop its own engines
Class to GE 414 E

15 years is by when amca mk2 will come

Currently GE 414 powering Korean KFX
So guess Amca prototype will to
Use two GE 414 initially