AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[Spitfire9]

India will by then develop its own engines
Class to GE 414 E

15 years is by when amca mk2 will come

Currently GE 414 powering Korean KFX
So guess Amca prototype will to
Use two GE 414 initially

I don't think you are being realistic in thinking India can develop an engine of the order of 414 E in 15 years. But raise the annual spend on R&D by 2000% compared to Kaveri for 15 years and get organised, then who knows?

 

[WARREN SS]

I don't think you are being realistic in thinking India can develop an engine of the order of 414 E in 15 years. But raise the annual spend on R&D by 2000% compared to Kaveri for 15 years and get organised, then who knows?

India can achieve many feet if it organize its private sector into
Development of statergic projects like Engines
Radar and missiles v

Transfer technology of Kaveri by DRDO to private players
That will be keen in investing in such projects

Govt already invested around 250-300 million $

But it needs atleat 5-6 billion $

The potential is huge for these engines

Drdo planning to level up in future

 

[Spitfire9]

India can achieve many feet if it organize its private sector into
Development of statergic projects like Engines
Radar and missiles v

Transfer technology of Kaveri by DRDO to private players
That will be keen in investing in such projects

Govt already invested around 250-300 million $

But it needs atleat 5-6 billion $

The potential is huge for these engines

Drdo planning to level up in future

Because India plans to build a lot of aircraft using 100kN (+/- around 10%) in the next 15 years or so, each of which will need replacement engines during the service life of the aircraft, I think this is the best opportunity for India to develop and build engines for fast jets.

 

[no smoking]

This RCS testing model is under development by vem technologies,would have no effect on the rollout of original flying prototype as different player would handle it,regarding the making of prototype,we are waiting from molana modi to fund the program.

80% to 90% of RCS is decided by outfit of the plane.
Without the verification of RCS testing, how can you make prototype?

 

[SavageKing456]

80% to 90% of RCS is decided by outfit of the plane.
Without the verification of RCS testing, how can you make prototype?

When did I say,that we can?

 

[no smoking]

When did I say,that we can?

Quote:
"This RCS testing model is under development by vem technologies, would have no effect on the rollout of original flying prototype"

 

[no smoking]

India can achieve many feet if it organize its private sector into
Development of statergic projects like Engines
Radar and missiles v

Transfer technology of Kaveri by DRDO to private players
That will be keen in investing in such projects

Govt already invested around 250-300 million $

But it needs atleat 5-6 billion $

The potential is huge for these engines

Drdo planning to level up in future

Not that simple.
Most of Private players (except Westerners) don't have much expertise in weapon development. They either build it up from scratch, or buy it from someone, or given by government. Either way requires huge investment which demands huge return in short term. No private company will invest anything that has on prospect of profit in 5 years.
So, the only way you can get private companies in is you pay them. And the amount (in 20-30 years) will be much more than you invest in the state owned companies. And the good chance is: these private companies will eventually become the white gloves of foreigners.

 

[SavageKing456]

Quote:
"This RCS testing model is under development by vem technologies, would have no effect on the rollout of original flying prototype"

You didn't get me,don't self assume,I said that because not one entity would handle both the model and prototype testing/construction thus no extra workload to effect timelines.

 

[Kalkioftoday]

Look at the speed they're developing their fifth gen. Is it possible to manufacture a fifth gen prototype within 2 years from initial PDR. This kind of speed is possible only when most of the parts are commercial off the shelf. Even the chinese aren't that fast with their J31 even though all of their parts are indigenous

 

[fire starter]

Look at the speed they're developing their fifth gen. Is it possible to manufacture a fifth gen prototype within 2 years from initial PDR. This kind of speed is possible only when most of the parts are commercial off the shelf. Even the chinese aren't that fast with their J31 even though all of their parts are indigenous

Well BAE Britain is developing it.

 

[SavageKing456]

Look at the speed they're developing their fifth gen. Is it possible to manufacture a fifth gen prototype within 2 years from initial PDR. This kind of speed is possible only when most of the parts are commercial off the shelf. Even the chinese aren't that fast with their J31 even though all of their parts are indigenous

Well we've till now not seen hurjet,their timelines seems too much optimistic

 

[Kalkioftoday]

Well BAE Britain is developing it.

Even than making a fifth gen from ground up within a 4 years is like miracle or something. Look at the tempest timeline, it's says 2035 and i'm pretty sure it'll reach 2040 to certify it as absolutely combat ready

 

[Spitfire9]

Well we've till now not seen hurjet,their timelines seems too much optimistic

According to link below

Turkey’s TAI plans to start production of jet trainer at year-end

Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) plans to start manufacturing the indigenous advanced jet trainer and light attack aircraft, Hürjet, at the end of this...

www.dailysabah.com

Project started Aug 2017
Conceptual design completed Apr 2018
Preliminary design completed Jul 2019
Critical design activities completed Feb 2021
Start of manufacturing planned Q4 2021
First flight planned Dec 2022
Product launch planned 2025/2026

Another 4-5 years envisaged to complete the project. Is that too optimistic, based on progress so far?

 

[SavageKing456]

According to link below

Turkey’s TAI plans to start production of jet trainer at year-end

Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) plans to start manufacturing the indigenous advanced jet trainer and light attack aircraft, Hürjet, at the end of this...

www.dailysabah.com

Project started Aug 2017
Conceptual design completed Apr 2018
Preliminary design completed Jul 2019
Critical design activities completed Feb 2021
Start of manufacturing planned Q4 2021
First flight planned Dec 2022
Product launch planned 2025/2026

Another 4-5 years envisaged to complete the project. Is that too optimistic, based on progress so far?

So you want to imply that if they can complete hurjet by that timelines they can do the same for TFX?

 

[Spitfire9]

So you want to imply that if they can complete hurjet by that timelines they can do the same for TFX?

No. I replied to a comment about Hurjet. However, if the project management of Hurjet is reasonably effective (decisions taken in a timely manner, funded on time, absence of jungles of red tape to hack through to implement decisions, dynamic management etc) and the same culture applies to the TF-X programme, perhaps a lot of avoidable delay will be avoided.

Will there be delays due to hitting technical problems with the aircraft? I would think so. Will sub-systems on the aircraft be late? I think that is very likely. I guess the structure of the aircraft itself can be built fairly quickly but it may be a long time before the various systems it uses are installed and shown to work. Just speculation, of course.

 

[Spitfire9]

Not that simple.
Most of Private players (except Westerners) don't have much expertise in weapon development. They either build it up from scratch, or buy it from someone, or given by government. Either way requires huge investment which demands huge return in short term. No private company will invest anything that has on prospect of profit in 5 years.
So, the only way you can get private companies in is you pay them. And the amount (in 20-30 years) will be much more than you invest in the state owned companies. And the good chance is: these private companies will eventually become the white gloves of foreigners.

But about companies being bought by foreigners, the government can put a 49% limit on foreign share ownership.

As for private companies costing more to develop whatever, that should not be the case. I imagine that PSU's are very inefficient and very unresponsive. Non-government owned companies should be able to do what PSU's do much more efficiently at much lower cost. = high profit while still cheaper for GOI, doesn't it? The other aspect is that when problems are encountered, the more able management and more flexible workforce one would expect in a commercial company should sort things more quickly so delays would be less severe.

I think the same would apply to AMCA if GOI handed part of production of MWF to the private sector (with HAL providing advice to get them up and running so they could 'learn the ropes' that HAL knew). Then AMCA production could be undertaken without the handicap of PSU culture.

 

[Spitfire9]

I have been asked before if I have any info on the Tempest programme. Found this video. Since I do not think there is a Tempest thread, I've put it here. The presenter is a bit quirky but I think is an aviation engineer/designer.

Jump to 2m0s to avoid intro

 

[Blank]

 

[no smoking]

You didn't get me,don't self assume,I said that because not one entity would handle both the model and prototype testing/construction thus no extra workload to effect timelines.

I am afraid that you don't understand the jet design.
RCS test result will affect the final design of outfit of the prototype.
If the RCS test find some bug in the model, then the design need to send back to lab for improvement.
And you don't know what scale of change will be required: it may affect the aerodynamic, or even structure, etc, etc.
So, until the testing team give node, prototype construction have to wait.

 

[SavageKing456]

I am afraid that you don't understand the jet design.
RCS test result will affect the final design of outfit of the prototype.
If the RCS test find some bug in the model, then the design need to send back to lab for improvement.
And you don't know what scale of change will be required: it may affect the aerodynamic, or even structure, etc, etc.
So, until the testing team give node, prototype construction have to wait.

External design won't change much,maybe internal maximum,things have been designed while keeping in mind.