AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[jackprince]

F-18 Hornet 10,400 KG/4,900 KG(Empty Weight/Internal Fuel)
F-18 Super Hornet 14,500 KG/6,400 KG
EFT 11,000 KG/5,000 KG
Mig-29 13,400 KG/3,400 KG

Now
F-18 Hornet ~ 47% internal fuel of empty weight
F-18 Super Hornet ~ 44%
EFT ~ 45%
Mig-29 ~ 25%

Except Mig-29 no other fighter is short legged. Each other have more then 40% internal fuel of empty weight.

Now lets consider AMCA a 11-12K empty weight class fighter.

ie. 33-36% internal fuel of empty weight.

Where as Rafale have more then 50% of the same.

The updated UPG version of Mig-29 carries over 4000 kg fuel internally. This is one of the major requirement for the upgrade program of IAF Mig-29.

 

[ersakthivel]

F-18 Hornet 10,400 KG/4,900 KG(Empty Weight/Internal Fuel)
F-18 Super Hornet 14,500 KG/6,400 KG
EFT 11,000 KG/5,000 KG
Mig-29 13,400 KG/3,400 KG

Now
F-18 Hornet ~ 47% internal fuel of empty weight
F-18 Super Hornet ~ 44%
EFT ~ 45%
Mig-29 ~ 25%

Except Mig-29 no other fighter is short legged. Each other have more then 40% internal fuel of empty weight.

Now lets consider AMCA a 11-12K empty weight class fighter.

ie. 33-36% internal fuel of empty weight.

Where as Rafale have more then 50% of the same.

Stealth fighters are no bomb trucks , they carry lesser no, lower weight LGBs and air to air missiles in their smaller internal bomb bays,and their super cruising engines contribute to longer distance covered with lesser fuel.

Also if you bulge up a stealth fighter with rafale like internal fuel fraction it may look more like F-35 and J-31, bloated fish with very stealth to long wavelength radar waves.

 

[ersakthivel]

F-35 fuel tank layout...
Fuel capacity-8300kgs Combat Radius about-1000km+
We need AMCA upto 1200-1500km combat radius
View attachment 6280

Are you sure 1000 plus Km is combat radius/ It may be combat range, Combat radius is always shorter than combat range, people always mix things up.

 

[halloweene]

Let's hope HAL will capitalize with a proper human resources management on the experience hardly gained on LCA.

 

[tsunami]

Stealth fighters are no bomb trucks , they carry lesser no, lower weight LGBs and air to air missiles in their smaller internal bomb bays,and their super cruising engines contribute to longer distance covered with lesser fuel.

Also if you bulge up a stealth fighter with rafale like internal fuel fraction it may look more like F-35 and J-31, bloated fish with very stealth to long wavelength radar waves.

15 years later you might see that IAF come up with requirement of a stealth fighter with Rafale like fuel and range then they will simply reject it and will ask for F-35. Same old story.

 

[ersakthivel]

15 years later you might see that IAF come up with requirement of a stealth fighter with Rafale like fuel and range then they will simply reject it and will ask for F-35. Same old story.

Those kind of stalling tactics are gone look at the new govt talking straight to IAF to indict 120 odd tejas mk1 A, calling their only rafale bluff in no uncertain terms.

Supercruising stealth planes(with full weapon load) with better SFC dont need as much fuel as non super cruising 4.5th gen planes.

 

[tsunami]

Those kind of stalling tactics are gone look at the new govt talking straight to IAF to indict 120 odd tejas mk1 A, calling their only rafale bluff in no uncertain terms.

Supercruising stealth planes(with full weapon load) with better SFC dont need as much fuel as non super cruising 4.5th gen planes.

And what is the guarantee that Modi govt. will stay for next 20 years??
Remember all these projects were unsuccessful when UPA was around. Excalibur, Bofors gun copy by DRDO, Tejas, Vejra, Even AWE&C was going to be a failed project. It's only now under modi govt. that all these projects have future. Soon enough Arjun might also see some 500+ order. But what if Modi govt. goes and UPA or some other shit come up. Then gain dance of foreign lobbyist will start, AMCA will fail and F-35 and PAKFA will be flying in more numbers in IAF colour.

 

[tharun]

Are you sure 1000 plus Km is combat radius/ It may be combat range, Combat radius is always shorter than combat range, people always mix things up.

Combat radius 0f 613nm on internal fuel as quoted in wiki...

 

[Jagdish58]

So IAF Mk2 program stands scrapped since Mk1-1A has come into fray , jump ship to AMCA
http://idrw.org/tejas-once-combat-r...utgun-the-pakistan-jf-17-fighters/#more-75644


Consequently, the proposed Tejas Mark-II for the IAF now stands scrapped, though it will continue for the Navy, as was earlier reported by TOI.

 

[tejas warrior]

So IAF Mk2 program stands scrapped since Mk1-1A has come into fray , jump ship to AMCA
http://idrw.org/tejas-once-combat-r...utgun-the-pakistan-jf-17-fighters/#more-75644


Consequently, the proposed Tejas Mark-II for the IAF now stands scrapped, though it will continue for the Navy, as was earlier reported by TOI.

Tejas mk2 is still ON for Indian Navy.

And Mk2 was always navy project on which IAF jumped to reject Mk1. Now, MOD is asking IAF to accept Mk1A in place of waiting for Mk2. Later when Mk2 is ready, IAF may consider it.

 

[Shadow]

So IAF Mk2 program stands scrapped since Mk1-1A has come into fray , jump ship to AMCA
http://idrw.org/tejas-once-combat-r...utgun-the-pakistan-jf-17-fighters/#more-75644


Consequently, the proposed Tejas Mark-II for the IAF now stands scrapped, though it will continue for the Navy, as was earlier reported by TOI.

I think the Government should transfer the Tejas technology to a private firm and ask them to go for MK-2 and allow HAL and DRDO to focus in AMCA

 

[Jagdish58]

I think the Government should transfer the Tejas technology to a private firm and ask them to go for MK-2 and allow HAL and DRDO to focus in AMCA

But private company will not accept without firm order , 40-50 order for NAVY LCA will not be enough for any private player considering the fact they have to invest heavily on infra

 

[Shadow]

But private company will not accept without firm order , 40-50 order for NAVY LCA will not be enough for any private player considering the fact they have to invest heavily on infra

Many experts believe that the IAF may end up procuring 400 Tejas.If that happens then private players can be involved with a 2nd production line.

 

[halloweene]

Combat radius 0f 613nm on internal fuel as quoted in wiki...

590 in usaf (clean) version. Straight from LM mouth http://forskning.tekna.no/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Norway-and-F-35-7-nov-2013.pdf

15% more with external fuel tanks(same pdf)

Compare to...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dv8sr9dudblqq7j/12918_resize_800_600_false_true_null.jpg?dl=0

920 NM for Rafale according to Defesanet

 

[Jagdish58]

Many experts believe that the IAF may end up procuring 400 Tejas.If that happens then private players can be involved with a 2nd production line.

Mate if IAF and IN procure 400 then sure private players will pitch in and definitely market the same in abroad to third world countries

 

[ersakthivel]

Combat radius 0f 613nm on internal fuel as quoted in wiki...

So IAF Mk2 program stands scrapped since Mk1-1A has come into fray , jump ship to AMCA
http://idrw.org/tejas-once-combat-r...utgun-the-pakistan-jf-17-fighters/#more-75644


Consequently, the proposed Tejas Mark-II for the IAF now stands scrapped, though it will continue for the Navy, as was earlier reported by TOI.

All conjecture,

Already both IAf and navy had contributed 900 cr each for tejas mk2 with improvements in every area like thrust to weight ratio, lower drag, higher fuel, higher ramge, OBORG, ASEA, Astra, IRST , lesser weight,etc, etc.

And once it is ready IAf will definitely order a few squadrons because there is yawning gap for IAf's 45 sq sanctioned strength, And hundreds of migs are retiring all over. Jags and mirage-2000s too cant last forever, attrition losses also will be accounted.

These are al hearsay from these reporters,

 

[Jagdish58]

All conjecture,

Already both IAf and navy had contributed 900 cr each for tejas mk2 with improvements in every area like thrust to weight ratio, lower drag, higher fuel, higher ramge, OBORG, ASEA, Astra, IRST , lesser weight,etc, etc.

And once it is ready IAf will definitely order a few squadrons because there is yawning gap for IAf's 45 sq sanctioned strength, And hundreds of migs are retiring all over. Jags and mirage-2000s too cant last forever, attrition losses also will be accounted.

These are al hearsay from these reporters,

HI sakthivel what you mean by OBORG???

 

[Kyubi]

HI sakthivel what you mean by OBORG???

On-Board Oxygen regenerator

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

 

[RAM]

ADA plans to use Modular construction approach for AMCA Programme

Learning from its mistake on the present supply chain of the LCA-Tejas Program which uses traditional approach of carrying out Sub-Assembles, Major Sub Assemblies, and System Integration all done by Lead Integrator. ADA has envisaged plans to use Modular Design construction for development and production of AMCA Programme.

According to ADA officials, AMCA will not follow LCA approach and instead will use many Public and Private sector companies to develop AMCA aircrafts.

Major Modules of AMCA will be divided into 9 modules which will be subcontracted to different companies so has to build each module independently, work of each company selected will be overseen by one agency and will need to meet laid down quality design process, testing, and delivery assurance as agreed upon.

9 modules identified by ADA are 1) Radome,2) front fuselage, 3) Center fuselage, 4 ) Rear Fuselage,5) Horizontal Stabilizers, 6) Vertical Stabilizers, 7) Wings, 8) Main landing Gear, 9) Nose Landing Gear.

ADA plans to outsource Component manufacturing as well as Sub-Assembles, Major Sub Assemblies and only System Integration will be done by Public sector companies like HAL while Private sector companies like Tata and Reliance etc will be doing Sub-Assembles, Major Sub Assemblies while other companies will be involved in the manufacturing of Major Modules of AMCA.

This new radical approach will allow ADA to manufacture aircraft modules at faster rates which will allow earlier preproduction aircrafts to be assembled at shorter durations, ADA plans to identify agencies while the product is at design stage so that they are involved from initial stage of the AMCA program allowing them enough time to build their local expertise over the year before aircraft enters production in seven to eight years after its carries out its first flight .

http://idrw.org/ada-plans-to-use-modular-construction-approach-for-amca-programme/#more-76678

 

[A chauhan]

Nice ! Modular approach will ensure faster development+production+assembly+quality control+quick upgrades. Seems MoD and HAL doesn't want to delay the AMCA.