AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

akshay m

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Anyway, MATV.........................................

please watch it @ 2:00

i suppose DRDO wanted to develop or co develop TVC on its own ,
instead of just TOT.

but for all we know they might end up TOT ing the kilmov TVC anyway

keeping my fingers crossed.


some of the reasons, that i am guessing

perhaps that the mig35 is twin engined figter tilted the favour towards kilmov

perhaps they thought that the russians are the best in this buisiness

perhaps they wanted GE to tone down some of their demands by trying to scare them by bringing in kilmov and trying to scare them

the GE engine for the AMCA to be brought/developed by DTTI is supposed to be 50% owned by DRDO, they might have thought TVC independent of GE might be better,. for whatever paronia that they might be having


i am just guessing here you know
 
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cobra commando

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Ajai Shukla: From Tejas to AMCA Ajai Shukla | Jul 06, 2015 09:50 PM IST

This fortnight, the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), which is responsible for the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) project, will brief its new boss on a project that will shape the future of the Indian Air Force (IAF) — the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), an indigenous “fifth-generation” (Gen-5) fighter more advanced than anything on the IAF’s inventory. After briefing Dr S Christopher, the new Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO) chief who is also ex-officio director-general of ADA, the AMCA proposal will be taken to Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar, who has specifically asked for a briefing. After Mr Parrikar’s green light, the DRDO will seek $4 billion (currently Rs 25,000 crore, but this would fluctuate with the rupee) to design and develop the AMCA, build and test-fly prototypes, and give the IAF a Gen-5 fighter within 15 years. Knowledgeable insiders say the AMCA will be a single-pilot, twin- engine, medium (20-25 tonnes) fighter with a highly stealthy design. This would be invaluable in the first days of a major war for targeting enemy war-waging infrastructure — roads, railways, airfields, radars, headquarters and depots — when conventional, non-stealthy fighters would be detected by the enemy’s air defence radars and shot down by fighters, missiles and guns. In such a “dense air defence environment”, stealth fighters would be able to degrade the enemy’s air defences, opening the window for our non-stealthy fighters, like the Sukhoi-30MKI, to strike with large loads of externally mounted ordnance and fuel.


Read more:
From Tejas to AMCA
 

ersakthivel

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Ajai Shukla: From Tejas to AMCA Ajai Shukla | Jul 06, 2015 09:50 PM IST

This fortnight, the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), which is responsible for the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) project, will brief its new boss on a project that will shape the future of the Indian Air Force (IAF) — the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), an indigenous “fifth-generation” (Gen-5) fighter more advanced than anything on the IAF’s inventory. After briefing Dr S Christopher, the new Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO) chief who is also ex-officio director-general of ADA, the AMCA proposal will be taken to Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar, who has specifically asked for a briefing. After Mr Parrikar’s green light, the DRDO will seek $4 billion (currently Rs 25,000 crore, but this would fluctuate with the rupee) to design and develop the AMCA, build and test-fly prototypes, and give the IAF a Gen-5 fighter within 15 years. Knowledgeable insiders say the AMCA will be a single-pilot, twin- engine, medium (20-25 tonnes) fighter with a highly stealthy design. This would be invaluable in the first days of a major war for targeting enemy war-waging infrastructure — roads, railways, airfields, radars, headquarters and depots — when conventional, non-stealthy fighters would be detected by the enemy’s air defence radars and shot down by fighters, missiles and guns. In such a “dense air defence environment”, stealth fighters would be able to degrade the enemy’s air defences, opening the window for our non-stealthy fighters, like the Sukhoi-30MKI, to strike with large loads of externally mounted ordnance and fuel.


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From Tejas to AMCA
Why you left out this stuff/
“Ho-hum! ADA can never do this,” the import lobbyists will say — self-appointed patriots who see no irony in their advocacy of expensive foreign weaponry at the expense of Indian R&D and defence industry. Their critique of the Tejas is well worn. Arguing (fallaciously) that the DRDO has taken 33 years to deliver the Tejas, they will (incorrectly) extrapolate that the more complex AMCA will take even longer! Their persistent allegations about the Tejas’ performance shortfalls are now being exposed. As flight-testing expanded the Tejas’ flight envelope, it became evident the LCA far outperforms the MiG-21BISON, the most advanced of the fighters it was built to replace, as well as any Pakistani fighter except the latest F-16 Block 50/52. The upcoming Tejas Mark II — with a more powerful engine, upgraded avionics and better air-to-air missile — could be built cheaply, overwhelming even more sophisticated opponents with numbers. This would require Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) to galvanise its production line, but that is a management issue, not a delay-inducing technology challenge.

With the Tejas’ performance now demonstrated, critics have shifted their fire to delays in the project, a more credible complaint. Even so, it is false to date the start of the LCA project to 1983, as is commonly done; the project really began a decade later. In 1983, the LCA was allocated Rs 560 crore for “feasibility studies and project definition”, and for creating developmental infrastructure. Only in 1993 was development funding allocated (Rs 2,188 crore, including the Rs 560 crore allocated in 1983). This was for building two “technology demonstrators”, the first of which flew in 2001. Taking 1993 as the base year, the Tejas took just eight years to fly, and will have taken 23 years for “final operational certification” (FOC) which is anticipated by March 2016. This is comparable with international timelines for fighter aircraft development, including the Rafale and the F-35 Lightning II.

Encouragingly, the AMCA will enjoy an impetus the LCA never got, now that the IAF has thrown its weight and support behind the AMCA programme. While the IAF stood aloof from the LCA, participating only as a critic, it has joined hands with ADA in formulating the AMCA’s configuration, and is deputing pilots and engineers to work alongside ADA as it designs the fighter. It is unclear what is driving this dramatic change in the IAF’s approach to indigenisation. It could be the realisation — stemming from the Rafale fiasco — that India simply cannot afford to import sizeable numbers of modern fighters. It could be the positive example of the navy, which has wisely steered the process of designing and building warships in India. Or, in an organisation that is shaped by the personality of the top man, it could just be that the current IAF chief favours indigenisation.
 

cobra commando

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Why you left out this stuff/
“Ho-hum! ADA can never do this,” the import lobbyists will say — self-appointed patriots who see no irony in their advocacy of expensive foreign weaponry at the expense of Indian R&D and defence industry. Their critique of the Tejas is well worn. Arguing (fallaciously) that the DRDO has taken 33 years to deliver the Tejas, they will (incorrectly) extrapolate that the more complex AMCA will take even longer! Their persistent allegations about the Tejas’ performance shortfalls are now being exposed. As flight-testing expanded the Tejas’ flight envelope, it became evident the LCA far outperforms the MiG-21BISON, the most advanced of the fighters it was built to replace, as well as any Pakistani fighter except the latest F-16 Block 50/52. The upcoming Tejas Mark II — with a more powerful engine, upgraded avionics and better air-to-air missile — could be built cheaply, overwhelming even more sophisticated opponents with numbers. This would require Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) to galvanise its production line, but that is a management issue, not a delay-inducing technology challenge.

Heh :) arre ersakthivel saar, kehne ki kya jaroorat hai ?!? sabko pata hai, no ! (atleast DFI mein) from the days of when those phoren STRONK ! egzberts equipped with their "pixel photo magic", fighting nonstop in the MBT Arjun thread with you, Kunal boss and other DFI maulanas, tryin to show us all brown pimitive lindoos that how sh!t it (MBT Arjun) is compared to T-90, al-khali and others. To the "30 years late, underpowered,tec demonstrator onlee" etc bs in the Tejas thread. We've seen it all !! baad mein bc sabki phat gaye. :truestory:
 

Pulkit

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Why you left out this stuff/
“Ho-hum! ADA can never do this,” the import lobbyists will say — self-appointed patriots who see no irony in their advocacy of expensive foreign weaponry at the expense of Indian R&D and defence industry. Their critique of the Tejas is well worn. Arguing (fallaciously) that the DRDO has taken 33 years to deliver the Tejas, they will (incorrectly) extrapolate that the more complex AMCA will take even longer! Their persistent allegations about the Tejas’ performance shortfalls are now being exposed. As flight-testing expanded the Tejas’ flight envelope, it became evident the LCA far outperforms the MiG-21BISON, the most advanced of the fighters it was built to replace, as well as any Pakistani fighter except the latest F-16 Block 50/52. The upcoming Tejas Mark II — with a more powerful engine, upgraded avionics and better air-to-air missile — could be built cheaply, overwhelming even more sophisticated opponents with numbers. This would require Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) to galvanise its production line, but that is a management issue, not a delay-inducing technology challenge.

With the Tejas’ performance now demonstrated, critics have shifted their fire to delays in the project, a more credible complaint. Even so, it is false to date the start of the LCA project to 1983, as is commonly done; the project really began a decade later. In 1983, the LCA was allocated Rs 560 crore for “feasibility studies and project definition”, and for creating developmental infrastructure. Only in 1993 was development funding allocated (Rs 2,188 crore, including the Rs 560 crore allocated in 1983). This was for building two “technology demonstrators”, the first of which flew in 2001. Taking 1993 as the base year, the Tejas took just eight years to fly, and will have taken 23 years for “final operational certification” (FOC) which is anticipated by March 2016. This is comparable with international timelines for fighter aircraft development, including the Rafale and the F-35 Lightning II.

Encouragingly, the AMCA will enjoy an impetus the LCA never got, now that the IAF has thrown its weight and support behind the AMCA programme. While the IAF stood aloof from the LCA, participating only as a critic, it has joined hands with ADA in formulating the AMCA’s configuration, and is deputing pilots and engineers to work alongside ADA as it designs the fighter. It is unclear what is driving this dramatic change in the IAF’s approach to indigenisation. It could be the realisation — stemming from the Rafale fiasco — that India simply cannot afford to import sizeable numbers of modern fighters. It could be the positive example of the navy, which has wisely steered the process of designing and building warships in India. Or, in an organisation that is shaped by the personality of the top man, it could just be that the current IAF chief favours indigenisation.

Agreeing with you totally.
Just to add to it current government is also playing a vital role here specially our present DM Mr Manohar Parrikar.
The way he openly backed Tejas surely would have had some impact on the IAF top elite.
 

tejas warrior

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Agreeing with you totally.
Just to add to it current government is also playing a vital role here specially our present DM Mr Manohar Parrikar.
The way he openly backed Tejas surely would have had some impact on the IAF top elite.
It might looks funny.. but some credit should go to A.K Antony. :D

He didn't took any decision in his carrier as a DM.. not even MMRCA !! So now, Parrikar had option to reduce MMRCA bill to support LCA.
 

Pulkit

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It might looks funny.. but some credit should go to A.K Antony. :D

He didn't took any decision in his carrier as a DM.. not even MMRCA !! So now, Parrikar had option to reduce MMRCA bill to support LCA.
I never though of this ... lol very true....
Just to add Rafale is not a bad fighter aircraft though i have doubts about its performance in India.
If he had done his duty in time then there would have been not this much delay in LCA Tejas and honestly cost of Rafale would not have increased till the extent that the cost trumped requirement.

If the deal would have been on time and at the approved cost then we wud not have to live with the extended life of Migs and even LCA would have been on track....
Had antony done his duty.....
 

Pulkit

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http://idrw.org/indias-5th-gen-amca-project-all-set-to-go-offical/

After carrying out years of Internal In-house research to develop technology required for India’s first Stealth Fighter aircraft Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), DRDO is all set to brief Defence minister Manohar Parrikar about the project and seek first official grant of $4 Billion from the government to start first phase of development which will involve development of Two Technological Demonstrator (TD) aircrafts and later Prototypes .

According to report prepared by Prominent Journalist “Ajai Shukla ” Dr S Christopher DRDO Chief will be first briefed about the Project and similar briefing has also been sought by Defence minister Manohar Parrikar before AMCA Project gets Green Singal from Government and Offical funding .

Idrw.org in its previous reports had informed its readers that ADE will start building first Technological Demonstrator (TD) aircraft from late 2019 which will be ready for first flight in 2021 and will enter production post-2025. DRDO hopes from development stage to Testing Stage and then to Production stage, AMCA Project will mature in next 15 years.

Design and aerodynamic layout of AMCA have already been frozen and recent wind tunnel testing carried out at the Calspan Wind Tunnel in the United States of America have given its developers enough confidence in their work to start working on actual aircraft.

AMCA will be India’s first Stealth aircraft developed in India. Air Staff Requirement (ASR) issued by Indian air force (IAF) in 2010 had asked for aircrafts weight should not exceed 25 tonnes which make it a medium category aircraft. ASR also demanded aircraft be powered by Two engines and according to ADE AMCA will require Two 110kN thrust class engine to meet its power requirements.

AMCA will be equipped with an AESA Radar, which also have Next generation avionics in Cockpit. AMCA will also come with latest integrated condition monitoring systems covering important systems such as avionics, structural health, air conditioning, and pressure regulation, networked data fusion and engines will also get thrust vectoring for super manoeuvrability.

AMCA will be designed with a very small radar cross-section and is expected to feature serpentine shaped air-intakes, internal weapons and the use of composites and other materials to make it par with other Stealth aircrafts developed by other Countries .

ADE will first develop Two Technological Demonstrator (TD) aircrafts and 3 Prototypes which will be developed in Modular Construction method.
 

Neeraj Mathur

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AMCA will be India’s first Stealth aircraft developed in India. Air Staff Requirement (ASR) issued by Indian air force (IAF) in 2010 had asked for aircrafts weight should not exceed 25 tonnes which make it a medium category aircraft. ASR also demanded aircraft be powered by Two engines and according to ADE AMCA will require Two 110kN thrust class engine to meet its power requirements.
guys can you tell me which engines fall in 110kN thrust class
 

Rowdy

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Heh :) arre ersakthivel saar, kehne ki kya jaroorat hai ?!? sabko pata hai, no ! (atleast DFI mein) from the days of when those phoren STRONK ! egzberts equipped with their "pixel photo magic", fighting nonstop in the MBT Arjun thread with you, Kunal boss and other DFI maulanas, tryin to show us all brown pimitive lindoos that how sh!t it (MBT Arjun) is compared to T-90, al-khali and others. To the "30 years late, underpowered,tec demonstrator onlee" etc bs in the Tejas thread. We've seen it all !! baad mein bc sabki phat gaye. :truestory:
I wonder if we rename arjun as ahmad ...will it be accepted... anyway Indians have a slave mentality .. won't hurt trying.
@Mad Indian
 

SajeevJino

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guys can you tell me which engines fall in 110kN thrust class
No one .. we need to develop ne version of existing engines. since AMCA falls on medium category the engine also need to be in medium class..

ADA and HAL in talks with the US Navy and GE to upgrade the F 414 to deliver 117 kN thrust in full after burner, but that one hit roadblock reported by Col. Shukla and Sjha. but Still no informations from horse mouth, so we have to wait for clear inputs about the Program.

EJ 200 also in touch with ADA and HAL, if GE fails tin the negotiation we may end up with Eurojet EJ 200, Even this one too needs a upgrade and re engineering to deliver more than 110 kN thrust
 

aero_sp

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Friends I fail to understand why IAF wants weight to be restricted to 25 ton. If there are higher thrust proven engines are available which will be able ro support 30 to 35 ton air craft. Higher weight will give higher load and range. What is the logic behing testricting our capacity.

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Tapatalk
 

Neeraj Mathur

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No one .. we need to develop ne version of existing engines. since AMCA falls on medium category the engine also need to be in medium class..

ADA and HAL in talks with the US Navy and GE to upgrade the F 414 to deliver 117 kN thrust in full after burner, but that one hit roadblock reported by Col. Shukla and Sjha. but Still no informations from horse mouth, so we have to wait for clear inputs about the Program.

EJ 200 also in touch with ADA and HAL, if GE fails tin the negotiation we may end up with Eurojet EJ 200, Even this one too needs a upgrade and re engineering to deliver more than 110 kN thrust
i think india was asking for TOT in F414. US will never give that
same with EJ 200

what about kaveri the K9+ programme and the K10 programme.
 

SajeevJino

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Friends I fail to understand why IAF wants weight to be restricted to 25 ton. If there are higher thrust proven engines are available which will be able ro support 30 to 35 ton air craft. Higher weight will give higher load and range. What is the logic behing testricting our capacity.

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AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft.

Aircrafts like FGFA and Su 30 MKI falls on Heavy category, see F 22's PW 119 delivers more than 300 kN , same FGFA also gets more than 300 kN with AL 41 FP.

But IAF's medium category AMCA needs a slow downed low weight and Low thrust engine..
 

SajeevJino

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i think india was asking for TOT in F414. US will never give that same with EJ 200
I think we already have the ToT in certain area's of both F 404 and F 414, but co develop re engineering talks just halted..

Those Engine ToT is not comes with 100%, but some limited area's only.

Same applies to the EJ 200 .

what about kaveri the K9+ programme and the K10 programme.
No idea ..let some other will clear our doubts @ersakthivel
 

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