AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

Punya Pratap

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Thats the whole issue ... we crib about delays on development projects while we dont invest in the testing components...a wind tunnel is IMPORTANT so where is it?
A Test Bed Plane is important and there are a lot of Mig 29's going out cheap ... we should have bought one or used from own inventory to test the Kaveri..... an indeginous engine needs a test bed and ideally a twin engined fighter to test its performance parameters ! Its like a batsmen who just does net practice but the real improvements are made while playing the test match!!
 

saik

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ersakthivel

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Scientists face uphill task developing India's first 5th generation fighter | idrw.org

While the crucial part – the engine – is hoped to be tackled at the air show, the project is also partially handicapped by the lack of adequate transonic (at the speeds close to speed of sound) wind tunnel facilities, Tamilmani said. At present, India has just one such wind tunnel facility – the one belonging to National Aerospace Laboratories off Old Airport Road in Bengaluru.

Wind tunnels are the crucial part of an aircraft development, in which the model of an aircraft is subject to a simulated flight by shooting high-speed winds at the aircraft frame and actually making it fly even as it is actually stationary. With this, engineers can arrive at the best designs and assess the stress that the airframe can endure – crucial in an aircraft design.

The NAL's wind tunnel has the capacity of just 1,500 blow-downs (the high-speed shooting) while our requirement is 11,000 a year. In the absence of meeting such a high demand, we are forced to go abroad to have the aircraft tested," Tamilmani said. The DRDO is currently taking the AMCA design model to Calspan Corporation's transonic wind tunnel, the largest independently-owned wind tunnel in the USA.

However, the disadvantage of doing that, he said, is that "we are taking our details and concepts abroad, that too at our expense." Tamilmani said the government is looking at a land in Telangana to set up a national wind tunnel facility to fill the gap. "In the next five years, we should have the facility," he said, hinting at the urgency of pushing the AMCA project.

The AMCA went into the project definition phase after obtaining the preliminary staff qualitative requirement from the IAF, with whom ADA has undertaken the project.
Time govt sanctions funds to build a higher capacity wind tunnel capable of having 15000 blow downs a year.
 

grampiguy

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Scientists face uphill task developing India's first 5th generation fighter | idrw.org

Time govt sanctions funds to build a higher capacity wind tunnel capable of having 15000 blow downs a year.
ADA also needs to speed up the AMCA project. The plane was needed yesterday but the timeline they give is 2021 at the earliest for first flight. Thereafter take another 10-15 years for induction. So India will get a fifth generation plane which will be 30 years older than American F-22. Is that a cutting edge research or a lousy justification for tenure jobs? The need of the hour is rapid prototyping and continuous testing to refine the design and increase its stealth and other features in increments.

Why can't ADA design a bigger LCA with two engines in 28 ton class? Why can't ADA purchase an existing plane (MiG-29 or anyone else in this class) and then go for refining it to AMCA? After all, Sukhoi T-50 is a better refined version of Su-35. So all experienced design agencies go through this process but ADA wants a anachronistic, lazy way?

Why does it need to plan for an engine and then go through heaps of red-tape to acquire it? Who has stopped it from using GE F414 engines for the testing period. A better engine can be designed for drop in dimensions in future. Once the plane starts flying, incrementally it can be converted into a better aircraft.

Simultaneous focus on both LCA MK-2 and AMCA needs to ensure that both aircraft start flight testing by 2018 and not in some god-forsaken long-distance future. The problem is ADA wants to build exotic pieces right at the outset without going through the incremental research and development process. It ends up with the same timeline or often later than other design agencies because of its faulty project management practices.
 

ersakthivel

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ADA also needs to speed up the AMCA project. The plane was needed yesterday but the timeline they give is 2021 at the earliest for first flight. Thereafter take another 10-15 years for induction. So India will get a fifth generation plane which will be 30 years older than American F-22. Is that a cutting edge research or a lousy justification for tenure jobs? The need of the hour is rapid prototyping and continuous testing to refine the design and increase its stealth and other features in increments.
ADA was proposing MCA from 2002, but IAF has refused to give concrete ASR from 2002 to 2012 . only in 2012 they gave a third or fourth "revised ASR". And just a year back less than fifty million dollars were sanctioned to ADA for development.These were all the policy fiascos of the previous UPA govt which did not press IAf to issue a a freezed ASR in 2004 itself .
Why can't ADA design a bigger LCA with two engines in 28 ton class? Why can't ADA purchase an existing plane (MiG-29 or anyone else in this class) and then go for refining it to AMCA? After all, Sukhoi T-50 is a better refined version of Su-35. So all experienced design agencies go through this process but ADA wants a anachronistic, lazy way?
MCA or AMCA is the bigger LCA with twin engines. In this 5th gen age no one is going for 4th gen twin engine fighter development after 2002.
Why does it need to plan for an engine and then go through heaps of red-tape to acquire it? Who has stopped it from using GE F414 engines for the testing period. A better engine can be designed for drop in dimensions in future. Once the plane starts flying, incrementally it can be converted into a better aircraft.
If the ASR given by IAF eliminates GE-404 as good enough choice it has no other go.
Simultaneous focus on both LCA MK-2 and AMCA needs to ensure that both aircraft start flight testing by 2018 and not in some god-forsaken long-distance future. The problem is ADA wants to build exotic pieces right at the outset without going through the incremental research and development process. It ends up with the same timeline or often later than other design agencies because of its faulty project management practices.
FGFA is the near term 5th gen fighter for india . India can buy some of the shelf from russia in case of emergencies. Due to the reasons i stated above AMCA development were delayed due to policy paralysis of previous UPA -congress govt. It remains to be seen how the new Modi govt is going to deal with it.
 

SajeevJino

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.

from the Above Article

People should stuck with something if mentions the Aspect of AMCA

Crucial capabilities

* SEAD (Suppression of Enemy Air Defense)
* DEAD (Destruction of Enemy Air Defense)
* Precision strike
And yes Nine Prototypes Planned :thumb:
 

saik

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On the super-maneuverability, it would be interesting to find if they would go with russian TVC or homegrown. (or TVC itself in design?). We would definitely like MKI TVC as baseline feature to consider perhaps. A 3D TVC goes far on this feature and a homegrown wala should begin their component design right away.. maturing Kaveri to match F414 is something we can consider to advance. this is one area mr parikkar must emphasize with DRDO.
 

roma

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interesting that we dont see any time limits for the developmental stages of this
aircraft
 

saik

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I seriously doubt we can set time limits for establishing capabilities. We have to take it whenever it comes. The faster the better.
 

ersakthivel

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interesting that we dont see any time limits for the developmental stages of this
aircraft

Saurav Jha "@SJha1618 2m2 minutes ago Bengaluru, Karnataka

AMCA is doable in the stipulated time frame because the emphasis is on avionics, signature management and not on uber aerodynamics.

Saurav Jha "@SJha1618 2m2 minutes ago Bengaluru, Karnataka

According to Dr Tamilmani the tech base for the AMCA pretty much exists in the country today. So there will be no repeat of Tejas delays.

Saurav Jha "@SJha1618 10m10 minutes ago

AMCA deadline is 10 years from now. First flight in 2020. IOC by 2024.

Even the funding is not ready. SO we should assume these time lines start from the day of funding .
 
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