AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

swapcv

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We need to diversify from Banglore. Having everything in one place is a bad idea and gives you static outlook.
We need to create additional ADA/HAL R&D and manufacturing centers in cities like Pune or Nashik or Bhopal or Indore, etc.
Birds of the same feathers flock together. Same applies to Aerospace Industry with OEM, Contractors and R&D all being situated in one place. Like it or not, Bengaluru is to us what Seattle and Toulouse/Hamburg is to the Americans and Europeans.
 

Bhartiya Sainik

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Are there any plans to introduce an inclosed Weopons pod in AMCA? Like how FA-18 Super Hornet has an enclosed Weopons pod in which a number of Weopons (Missiles, Guided ordnance can be stored).

View attachment 144751

It would be ideal for a Fighter like AMCA to have such a feature embedded in it as AMCA will be a Stealth Aircraft :-
  • With (IWP) AMCA would be able to Carry more Weopons for any mission instead of only in it's IWB and it would still have a lowered RCS too.
  • Not as low as in configuration of only Carrying ordnance inside it's IWB but it would be low still.

View attachment 144750
Once the pod is empty then it becomes liability. It is useful only when some stealth shaping & RAM have been applied to it also, meaning a costly product, meaning it cannot be jettisioned just anywhere, especially across border.
The connecting pylon b/w the pod & airframe is non-stealthy. In beast-mode also these pylons are risk after all external weapons are fired. So either they also needs to have RAM applied or should be able to be jettisioned.

IWB? IWB of AMCA can carry only 4 BVRs Inside it (Astra Mk-1, Astra Mk-2 and Possibly MK-3{not sure about Astra MK-3 though}>~
You really think that 4 BVRs will be enough? I don't think so.
Correct, hence sometimes i raised concerns on economics of design, more load means more T/W ratio. Hence we made same mistake TWICE. 1st - not switching to MWF immediately after LCA TD in early 2000s even when J-10 & JF-17 started; & now 2nd - neither initiating AHCA (publicly) like J-20, nor an appropriate stronger engine by GTRE/import/JV when GTRE was established in 1959, nor using MKI's AL-31 as temporary option. Russia used us as cash-cow for Su-57 & we had to pull out.
I know people have said that Russian engines are less reliable, servicing & parts issues, etc. But neither Russia nor China delayed an entire jet/UCAV program just bcoz of temporary engine issues.
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USA is still thinking of imposing CAATSA on us bcoz we wanna be neutral to everyone, not just Ukraine & Russia. What if import of GE F414 is affected? AMCA, TEDBF, MWF will get impacted. Watch the news, people are fearing WW3 now, conventional & nuclear. How many lessons do we need? Previous governments were sleeping on import dependency. :crazy: :clap2::playball::yo:
 

Dark Sorrow

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Birds of the same feathers flock together.
This is not the case of Birds of the same feathers flock together. This is an investment by a government body using tax payers money and the entire country should benefit from it not just one city. If DRDO/ADA used its own money no one would complain but they are using government money.
The purpose of these project AMCA/Tejas is to develop local industry in India and not just in Bengaluru .
Same applies to Aerospace Industry with OEM, Contractors and R&D all being situated in one place. Like it or not, Bengaluru is to us what Seattle and Toulouse/Hamburg is to the Americans and Europeans.
That is a very bad and misinformed example. In US Aerospace Industry is not limited to Seattle but spread through the country. Boeing primary makes their commercial aircraft in Everett, Washington . LM have huge plants Fort Worth, Texas for F-35, Georgia for F-22, Greenville, S.C. for F-16. US Aerospace Industry is spread out throughout their nation.
US Aerospace R&D industry is also spread through their country so goes for their production industry.
DRDO/ADA plan to favor Bengaluru over rest of country is detrimental to companies located in rest of India and favor Bengaluru based companies.
I know a few good aerospace companies located in Maharashtra and Telangana.
As for EU check location of production partners or their aircraft you will find them spread across the continent.
 
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swapcv

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This is not the case of Birds of the same feathers flock together. This is an investment by a government body using tax payers money and the entire country should benefit from it not just one city. If DRDO/ADA used its own money no one would complain but they are using government money.
The purpose of these project AMCA/Tejas is to develop local industry in India and not just in Bengaluru .

That is a very bad and misinformed example. In US Aerospace Industry is not limited to Seattle but spread through the country. Boeing primary makes their commercial aircraft in Everett, Washington . LM have huge plants Fort Worth, Texas for F-35, Georgia for F-22, Greenville, S.C. for F-16. US Aerospace Industry is spread out throughout their nation.
US Aerospace R&D industry is also spread through their country so goes for their production industry.
DRDO/ADA plan to favor Bengaluru over rest of country is detrimental to companies located in rest of India and favor Bengaluru based companies.
I know a few good aerospace companies located in Maharashtra and Telangana.
As for EU check location of production partners or their aircraft you will find them spread across the continent.
What you're referring to are second and third tier contractors, and while it is true that both US and EU have theirs distributed country wide, it would be disingenuous to say ours isn't either. We have contractors spread throughout the country too, the only difference being that some are very prominent subcontractors like TAL, Mahindra Defence, to smaller ones like AEQUS, not to mention hundreds of MSME's spread throughout India which manufacture smaller parts and components. Also, do not forget that we have assembly lines in Kanpur and Nashik which is pretty far away from Bengaluru itself. As for the entire nation benefiting, that's a misnomer, because the benefits will be different in the eye of the beholder. I see the benefits in terms of results and useful expenditure of taxpayer money and not giving contracts like handouts to every Tom, Dick and Harry who wishes to participate but without the requistie skills, expertise or infrastructure. Also the purpose of developing Tejas, AMCA, MWF, TEDBF etc. is first and foremost to reduce our dependence on imported aircraft while simultaneously meeting our defence needs, and if that is achieved by concentrating our Industry in a single clustre then so be it.
 

johnj

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Are there any plans to introduce an inclosed Weopons pod in AMCA? Like how FA-18 Super Hornet has an enclosed Weopons pod in which a number of Weopons (Missiles, Guided ordnance can be stored).

View attachment 144751

It would be ideal for a Fighter like AMCA to have such a feature embedded in it as AMCA will be a Stealth Aircraft :-
  • With (IWP) AMCA would be able to Carry more Weopons for any mission instead of only in it's IWB and it would still have a lowered RCS too.
  • Not as low as in configuration of only Carrying ordnance inside it's IWB but it would be low still.

View attachment 144750
I liked the pics, and can sh carry inclosed weapons pod under wings ? and what is total weight of inclosed weapons pod ?
No, no plans so far.
 

Super Flanker

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I liked the pics, and can sh carry inclosed weapons pod under wings ? and what is total weight of inclosed weapons pod ?
No, no plans so far.
The total weight of the "Inclosed Weopons pod" would depend on what Weopons the pod would be housing. Basically if you would want to know the weight than you will have to calculate it this way:-

Here I am going to form an equation and will use the following symbols Denoting the Respective terms Here:-

Weight of the Weopons = ∆
Weight of Pod = ©


So weight of Pod would be = ∆ + ©

500.jpg
 

Super Flanker

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I liked the pics, and can sh carry inclosed weapons pod under wings ? and what is total weight of inclosed weapons pod ?
No, no plans so far.
No it cannot carry the Pod on its Wings. It can carry the Pod only on its Center-Fuselage Pylon!
 

Super Flanker

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That's right. That why no plans of inclosed weapons pod for AMCA, pod weight + weapons and its over all its size but good for teddy/iaf version.
If we will be designing a Enclosed Weopons pod for TEDBF than we should make its size to be able to carry Missiles of sizes atleast Astra Mk-2/3 at Maximum. I am pretty sure that designing an enclosed Weopons pod won't be the toughest thing.
 

Bhartiya Sainik

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The GE132 engine does not fit into LCA.
LLLLLLLLLLLCA???????????? I personally don't believe in puppy jets for huge country like ours.

1647622869785.png

I'm least bothered about LCA. It is like USA It is surely a stepping stone for self-capability but today as we are entering mid-21st century, it is an example of "can't spit, can't swallow".
GE414 is also intended for AMCA, TEDBF & MWF, for these 3 teenager jets GE-132 would be good. That's why we are initiating joint-venture for 100+KN engine for the MK2 versions of these jets. It is the T/W ratio which matters, especially for stealth fighters.
 

Bhartiya Sainik

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Now AMCA team must decipher what Raptor guys are upto?
View attachment 145902
View attachment 145903
So far it seems these pylon-pods have not been publicly presented or may be that webpage is not visible in searches or i couldn't find it. But at least 1 page is speculating that these could be prototype for IRST or jammers or even dual combo. Hence these being integral part of EW & EOTS won't require to be jettisoned. The F-22's engines give enough power to their electronics & very little loss in T/W ratio.

1647960035154.png

Something similar has been shown in F-18E/F future expansion

1647960248594.png


If implemented as dual L+R EOTS then they will cover left & right hemispheres. This reminds me of F-16 AFTI's dual pods on LERX.

1647950487310.png

Above the F-16-AFTI demonstrated multiple simultaneous grond+air functions like FLIR, IRST, LD, etc which manifested later in form of DAS/MAWS+EOTS in F-35.
Single RF beam can act like LRF but EO/IR will need atleast 2 sensors to approximately bisect & locate a target passively w/o RF assistance.
The F-22's airframe may not be feasible to modify & blend this pylon-pod in wing, LER, chin, cheeks, rudder, etc.
This can also work as a stealthy pylon in beast-mode as long as only 1 payload is attached. Next challenge would be to address multi-attachment pylon. The usual pylons are useless after weapons are used until next sortie & cannot be jettisoned, hence pose huge threat to current 5th gen jets in beast mode. The stealth pod also suffers same weakness.
1647960638368.png


Below is concept for Su-30MKI MAWS concept similar to western implementations:

1647949333566.png

1647949349317.png

1647949807778.png


Western implementations for 4th gen jets include different models for combining CMDS, MAWS, jammer, EO sensors, RWR:
1647950176848.png

1647950225571.png


But for 5th gen jets some modifications are required for final product to reduce the RCS.
CAUTION: Don't ever compare 4th & 5th gen requirements & implementations.

The AMCA team can learn a lot from this for MK2 version & can try to blend such implementations in the airframe itself. Wingtip pod implementation won't be required which hinders roll-rate.

In 6th gen jet such pylon-pod or blended implementation might come in handy for external loads or DEW.
 

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