AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[fire starter]

Ground reality is that they are exporting drones why we are unable to commission a single drone.

Except for Astra Mk. 1 others are still in development.
Turkey is also developing Bozdoğan (Merlin) and Gökdoğan (Peregrine) for WVR and BVR combat.

We have a head start with Uttam AESA but Aselsan is reported to be currently developing an AESA radar.

When we started we had no experience in aircraft design still we manage to build Tejas (not taking in account the delays) so why can't Turkey develop 5th generation aircraft. Expecting Turkey to fail or claiming AMCA is superior just because we built Tejas is not rational.

The same can be said about all our ToT projects.

Every country build missile as per their requirement. We have brahmos they have SOM and ATMACA.

Lets brag about it once the project completes development and enters mass-production. Saras Mk. 1 ended without success. Their are no points for attempting to build aircraft.

Again every countries develop missile as per their requirement. Turkey developed HISAR, SOR, Mizrak-U, etc. You can google their developments. Turkey is also known to be developing hyper-sonic and BMD weapon.

Thinking Indian defense industry is superior to Turkish industry without objectively analyzing is stupid specifically when Turkish aerospace industry is exporting their products.
Both industry are
Claiming AMCA is superior TF-X because of claim Indian defense industry is superior to Turkish is not pragmatic but plain stupid or blind patriotism.

Duffer just look at the progress of both the countries in strategic weapons (ballistic missiles, submarines, hypersonic weapons, BMD etc.) In which no foreign help is received You will get to know about the reality.

There is no hidden thing that turkey developed it's defence industry with help of NATO and they still hire thousands of scientists from Europe every year and pay them hefty amount with only condition that they will keep it secret.

Amca will be superior to TFX this I can guarantee 110%.

 

[IndianHawk]

Ground reality is that they are exporting drones why we are unable to commission a single drone.

Except for Astra Mk. 1 others are still in development.
Turkey is also developing Bozdoğan (Merlin) and Gökdoğan (Peregrine) for WVR and BVR combat.

We have a head start with Uttam AESA but Aselsan is reported to be currently developing an AESA radar.

When we started we had no experience in aircraft design still we manage to build Tejas (not taking in account the delays) so why can't Turkey develop 5th generation aircraft. Expecting Turkey to fail or claiming AMCA is superior just because we built Tejas is not rational.

The same can be said about all our ToT projects.

Every country build missile as per their requirement. We have brahmos they have SOM and ATMACA.

Lets brag about it once the project completes development and enters mass-production. Saras Mk. 1 ended without success. Their are no points for attempting to build aircraft.

Again every countries develop missile as per their requirement. Turkey developed HISAR, SOR, Mizrak-U, etc. You can google their developments. Turkey is also known to be developing hyper-sonic and BMD weapon.

Thinking Indian defense industry is superior to Turkish industry without objectively analyzing is stupid specifically when Turkish aerospace industry is exporting their products.
Both industry are
Claiming AMCA is superior TF-X because of claim Indian defense industry is superior to Turkish is not pragmatic but plain stupid or blind patriotism.

What we have already done and what turkey has in development has a gap of over 20 years technology wise. That's in conventional weaponry only of one looks at nuclear and strategic sector we are 30-40 years ahead. Enough said .

Regarding amca and tfx amca superiority is already given since we already have gan aesa in manufacturing. AMCA radar would be atleast 10 years ahead of any Turkish radar turkey will be able to done equivalent testing and deployment testing only a decade later.

We already have indian mission computers on su30mki and lca . Turkey will need 2 decades of this experience to make any decent mission computers on their own . Same goes for weaponry , ew suits and everything else .

 

[SavageKing456]

What we have already done and what turkey has in development has a gap of over 20 years technology wise. That's in conventional weaponry only of one looks at nuclear and strategic sector we are 30-40 years ahead. Enough said .

Regarding amca and tfx amca superiority is already given since we already have gan aesa in manufacturing. AMCA radar would be atleast 10 years ahead of any Turkish radar turkey will be able to done equivalent testing and deployment testing only a decade later.

We already have indian mission computers on su30mki and lca . Turkey will need 2 decades of this experience to make any decent mission computers on their own . Same goes for weaponry , ew suits and everything else .

Whole turkish superiority they claim is based on drones and that too with base support of NATO technology.
They're yet to test their scramjet engine.
And yet to have offensive space warfare capabilities.

 

[IndianHawk]

Whole turkish superiority they claim is based on drones and that too with base support of NATO technology.
They're yet to test their scramjet engine.
And yet to have offensive space warfare capabilities.

Only few countries in the world have tested scramjet till now. I doubt turkey will even be able to allocate fund for scram jet research in this decade forget about developing and testing.

 

[SavageKing456]

Only few countries in the world have tested scramjet till now. I doubt turkey will even be able to allocate fund for scram jet research in this decade forget about developing and testing.

well he mentioned turkish bvr missle,i was like okay
the bvr which turkey tested has no data link,less speed,range than even astra mk1 which is already inducted,so it automatically says that turkey is still behind.
correct me if I'm wrong but turkey has still not made any 4th gen combat aircraft,it would really be a miracle that turkey makes an FGFA without having basic R&D of 4th gen combat aircraft and that too better than a country which has already made one(tejas mk1) and nearly most of the tech in tejas mk2

 

[Ar.gaurav28]

Why AMCA thread has become measuring contest between India and Turkey.

It all started as AMCA VS TFX...but got derailed into everything

 

[fire starter]

It all started as AMCA VS TFX...but got derailed into everything

Lol some dick suckers were demanding bitch slapping.

 

[asaffronladoftherisingsun]

For amca .

What we will have

Drdo - almost everything , and better .

Tonbo , maybe some help to drdo a joint project for das and eots at max .


Anything defense is much different.from civil , lnt and all will require drdo help to do the task , hal will be part of jv for integration , material will be from drdo , iit, midhani , that's it .

All software will be drdo

DRDO gg !!!!!!

 

[Ar.gaurav28]

Well can agree upto turkey being that labourer that is/was working on big construction site(f35) & now is like I’m the Builder/Developer! I know all the stuff that goes on I have seen i all happen...
I can make one of my own as he was kicked out from that site...

Brazil even approached HAL to buy a stake in Embraer after Boeing backed out of the KC-390 project. And yet there is 0 news about it. Having a say in the KC-390 project is an example of strategic developments that would benefit India.

Yeah right India should have bought that lavi project from Israel we would using a great fighter by now & china would still relying on cheap copies of russian jets!

Just because they assemble and export , Don't make them superior

We should do that too more! we do, but a lot less... it is way of creating dependence of other countries on ourselves thats how USA became wt it is today!

Tejas is already flying with Uttam.

not yet hold your horses...bro still testing air to ground mode!

What we have already done and what turkey has in development has a gap of over 20 years technology wise.

Yes there is a gap but if things go right for turkey they can match up with us in 10years technology wise.labourers have the will to work hard!

Thus we all can agree upon that for our country it’s make or break time and thing like delaying funding for even our most important projects will hurt us more than we think. The only enemy we need to beat is our own(MOD) lethargic approach towards our project.
This is the decade if we do it right, we can be the real super power be it economically or militarily !!

 

[darshan978]

DRDO gg !!!!!!

here is YT video from company on forging press they used ! they mentioned midhani!

 

[MonaLazy]

YT video from company

Wow! This capability is destined for both Adour & Kaveri jet engines. Thanks for sharing.

Is it perhaps part of the Rafale offsets? Or France pushing its case as a reliable partner to secure another order?

 

[asaffronladoftherisingsun]

Wow! This capability is destined for both Adour & Kaveri jet engines. Thanks for sharing.

Is it perhaps part of the Rafale offsets? Or France pushing its case as a reliable partner to secure another order?

Praise DRDO !!

 

[asaffronladoftherisingsun]

Anybody updates regarding Second defence negative import list which was set to be finalized this week ?

 

[gutenmorgen]

Wow! This capability is destined for both Adour & Kaveri jet engines. Thanks for sharing.

Is it perhaps part of the Rafale offsets? Or France pushing its case as a reliable partner to secure another order?

What is?
The process is developed by DRDO and the company making the forging press is German. I don't see a French involvement here.

 

[Marliii]

Anybody updates regarding Second defence negative import list which was set to be finalized this week ?

 

[IndianHawk]

Wow! This capability is destined for both Adour & Kaveri jet engines. Thanks for sharing.

Is it perhaps part of the Rafale offsets? Or France pushing its case as a reliable partner to secure another order?

No it has nothing to do with french or anybody else. It's our own intellectual property now.

 

[Tshering22]

Pretty recent & comes straight from the horse's mouth..

View attachment 92027

Tejas done, focus on three other fighter jets: two for IAF, one Navy

Three new fighter jets will be flying by 2026, of which two will be for the Air Force and one for the Navy, Girish S Deodhare, chief of Aeronautical Development Agency of the Defence Ministry, which has designed the LCA, told The Indian Express.

indianexpress.com

Anything that comes out of a defence PSU's mouth has to be taken with a fistful of salt. Let's face it; we brag first and then do not deliver.

I would assume this to be non-existent until I see these jets at least taxiing somewhere. Let's not get ahead of ourselves knowing how HAL, DRDO labs and ADA work.

 

[Lonewolf]

Anything that comes out of a defence PSU's mouth has to be taken with a fistful of salt. Let's face it; we brag first and then do not deliver.

I would assume this to be non-existent until I see these jets at least taxiing somewhere. Let's not get ahead of ourselves knowing how HAL, DRDO labs and ADA work.

All have delivered wonderful work and sucked too , depends on what part we are focusing

 

[Tshering22]

All have delivered wonderful work and sucked too , depends on what part we are focusing

The bottomline is, we don't have platforms that we can independently field in case we have an all-out war.

Look at the geopolitical scenario around us; a hostile China, a non-committal Russia, an unfriendly USA, an infighting/indecisive European Union, a weakened UK, and the rest of the world pretty much useless in terms of defence tech support.

If we were to face a full-blown war right now, with no support, what would we do? We don't even know how to reverse engineer and copy-paste like China who can churn out jets like a cardboard factory. War planning and defence developments need to be done, keeping in mind the worst possible scenario; not the most optimistic one.

The way our defence is planned, it is as though we are a part of NATO where another 20 countries would rush to our military aid the moment we are invaded. Moral support means squat when the enemy jets are bombing our troop positions and our defensive systems are not enough to address the threat. AMCA was supposed to have started testing in the next 2 years and it is still not come out of the drawing board yet. They will take another 10 years of test from the day the jet can even taxi.

AMCA is expected to join IAF by 2032 - that is very, very far away assuming that we stick to the deadline. Till then, we have very limited aerial assets. It is strong, but not strong enough to flatten the enemy. And no, I am not talking about Pakistan; I am talking about the Red Dragon.

Now tell me, am I being overly pessimistic or seeing the situation around you my concerns are legitimate?

 

[Lonewolf]

The bottomline is, we don't have platforms that we can independently field in case we have an all-out war.

Look at the geopolitical scenario around us; a hostile China, a non-committal Russia, an unfriendly USA, an infighting/indecisive European Union, a weakened UK, and the rest of the world pretty much useless in terms of defence tech support.

If we were to face a full-blown war right now, with no support, what would we do? We don't even know how to reverse engineer and copy-paste like China who can churn out jets like a cardboard factory. War planning and defence developments need to be done, keeping in mind the worst possible scenario; not the most optimistic one.

The way our defence is planned, it is as though we are a part of NATO where another 20 countries would rush to our military aid the moment we are invaded. Moral support means squat when the enemy jets are bombing our troop positions and our defensive systems are not enough to address the threat. AMCA was supposed to have started testing in the next 2 years and it is still not come out of the drawing board yet. They will take another 10 years of test from the day the jet can even taxi.

AMCA is expected to join IAF by 2032 - that is very, very far away assuming that we stick to the deadline. Till then, we have very limited aerial assets. It is strong, but not strong enough to flatten the enemy. And no, I am not talking about Pakistan; I am talking about the Red Dragon.

Now tell me, am I being overly pessimistic or seeing the situation around you my concerns are legitimate?

Situation is not accessed completely , concern are genuine but what would you reverse engineer ,flanker , it is a lot more indigenous now and would be almost indian after super sukhoi , we don't have proper defence strategy due to lack of will and practical assessment , more of fault of leadership ,not accessing situation realistically is biggest blunder .

Some things where we are more independent are missile part and will be almost 100% independent within 5-7 years .

This is a curve we couldn't escape but could have fast forwarded it .

Our forces want king of all traits ,even if they are given product similar to foreign product ,now this mentality is going away .

You can abuse hal but drdo has done a good job , compared to budget allocation .

Amca was to be changed due to iaf intervention