AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

Bleh

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TVC is great for nose pointing ability but won't it cause a lot of drop in energy? AFAIK in a real turning fight the one with the higher T/W ratio is king.
It does for F-22 (especially more because it has higher drag compare to Su-27 family)... I read a report on joint exercises of NATO they all said that if Eurofighter Typhoon could enter the merge & turn tight enough to stay within the minimum range of engagement for AIM-9X (ie, 1600ft) it would result in a guaranteed kill for them.

AMCA Mark2 is slated to have TVC & similar T/W.. So while it's RCS should be higher than F-22, its shaping should allow it to retain & recover energy significantly better.
 

Trololo

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It does for F-22 (especially more because it has hired rather than Su-27 family)... I read a report on joint exercises of NATO they all said that if Eurofighter Typhoon could enter the merge & turn tight enough to stay within the minimum range of engagement for AIM-9X (ie, 1600ft) it would result in a guaranteed kill for them.

AMCA Mark2 is slated to have TVC & similar T/W.. So while it's RCS should be higher than F-22, its shaping should allow it to retain & recover energy significantly better.
One of the takeaways of the 2007 IAF-RAF exercises at RAF Paddington was that the Typhoon's high excess power puts it in a class of its own at high speed high altitude combat. Very difficult to beat even by the MKI.
 

Bleh

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One of the takeaways of the 2007 IAF-RAF exercises at RAF Paddington was that the Typhoon's high excess power puts it in a class of its own at high speed high altitude combat. Very difficult to beat even by the MKI.
Power output combined with its aerodynamic (again a tradeoff compared to stealthier Rafale) & its canard positioning (which jeopardises its slow speed handling but make it a great energy-fighter of all deltas).
 

Ajax01

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Stealth is achieved by either shaping improvements or material improvements. Perse if you have improved materials you can let go of some shaping constraints. For ex: -20dB reduction has been achieved in stealth materials over the entire X and Ku band. It is said that F22 has -40dB overall with shaping. If you get -20dB absorption even if your aircraft is a flat plate you can easily get 50 percent more ie -20dB more by shaping.
 

Bleh

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Stealth is achieved by either shaping improvements or material improvements.
Something you've missed is that, it becomes disproportionately harder to achieve stealth with only RAM coating & materials alone, as you go further.
Like unless you have the shaping to hide the engine fans there is nothing else you can do. Mig-35 reportedly has 1/4th the RCS of its predecessor, but cannot become a F-35, even if Russian somehow had superior materials.

But yes, AMCA most likely follows this strategy. To get a reasonable amount of stealthy structure, but not too much at the cost of aerodynamics.. then fully rely on materials & paint.
 

Lonewolf

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Smart you miss is that it becomes disproportionately harder to achieve stealth with only RAM coating & materials alone, as you go further.
Like unless you have the shaping to hide the engine fans there is nothing else you can do.

But yes, AMCA most likely follows this strategy. To get a reasonable amount of stealthy structure, but not too much at the cost of aerodynamics.. then fully rely on materials & paint.
And and and active stealth , ew is a inseparable part for proper fifth gen fighter
 

Trololo

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Something you've missed is that, it becomes disproportionately harder to achieve stealth with only RAM coating & materials alone, as you go further.
Like unless you have the shaping to hide the engine fans there is nothing else you can do. Mig-35 reported has 1/5th the RCS of its predecessor, but cannot become a F-35, even if Russian somehow had superior materials.

But yes, AMCA most likely follows this strategy. To get a reasonable amount of stealthy structure, but not too much at the cost of aerodynamics.. then fully rely on materials & paint.
Also like the Russians the IAF places high priority for WVR roles. So some compromise in stealth is expected. But in all likelihood the AMCA will come with relevant EW gear to deal with it.
 

Trololo

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Question:
1> When we say that the AMCA Mk2 will have 110KN class of engines, does it mean that the end wet thrust will be 110KN or are we looking at something in the 140-150KN mark?
2> What will be the amount of onboard electrical power generated? Both RR and IHI are putting a premium on onboard electrical power to drive next gen EW systems.
 

Lonewolf

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Question:
1> When we say that the AMCA Mk2 will have 110KN class of engines, does it mean that the end wet thrust will be 110KN or are we looking at something in the 140-150KN mark?
2> What will be the amount of onboard electrical power generated? Both RR and IHI are putting a premium on onboard electrical power to drive next gen EW systems.
And rr will be joint development partner , max thrust will be some 115 kn at max , dry at 75 kn , that will give 150 dry , and 230 kn wet , that's enough for amca ,better than f 35 , fc 31 ,
 

MonaLazy

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the end wet thrust will be 110KN
Do note that jet engine performance degrades in hot Indian weather they will have to develop an engine that in the west (benchmark engine OEMs) develops 85-90/120-125 kN!! That has to fit in the size of a F-414 which the initial AMCA variants will be built around!

So 85/120kN is the European/US spec we are looking at.
 

FalconSlayers

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this is a possible explanation.
Maybe Unlikely, because F-35 is single engined hence it required an additional pod over it for using it to deploy parachute when it is landing, but AMCA is twin engined and in the gap there is a part of the airframe which Protudes where the parachutes in twin engined aircrafts are usually kept.

Here our own Su-30MKI
1620637618029.png


Our Tejas is single engined hence it’s parachute deployment system is on top of the engine, included inside the vertical tail stabiliser.
1620637743919.jpeg




I might be wrong.
 

MirageBlue

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Question:
1> When we say that the AMCA Mk2 will have 110KN class of engines, does it mean that the end wet thrust will be 110KN or are we looking at something in the 140-150KN mark?
2> What will be the amount of onboard electrical power generated? Both RR and IHI are putting a premium on onboard electrical power to drive next gen EW systems.
The number quoted as the thrust is almost always the wet thrust, unless we're talking about a platform with an engine that doesn't have an afterburner section at all.
 

Bleh

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It would have to be for the F-414-INS6 since the replacement engine in the 110 kN category doesn't exist as yet.
Absolutely.. Plus the AMCA Mark2 would need to have considerable changes, kinda like LCA to MWF shift.

  1. Bigger air-intakes
  2. Reworked CG (big engines & its reinforced bay).
  3. Greater fuel capacity, likely a fuselage plug.
  4. Design changes to aerodynamically make up for the elongation.
  5. Enlarged wings to maintain payload.
 

Lonewolf

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Absolutely.. Plus the AMCA Mark2 would need to have considerable changes, kinda like LCA to MWF shift.

  1. Bigger air-intakes
  2. Reworked CG (big engines & its reinforced bay).
  3. Greater fuel capacity, likely a fuselage plug.
  4. Design changes to aerodynamically make up for the elongation.
  5. Enlarged wings to maintain payload.
15 ton empty weight ?
 

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