AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

Lonewolf

Psychopathic Neighbour
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2021
Messages
7,300
Likes
27,599
Country flag
Seems like Ghatak UCAV is very secret, no info getting out. But no point making and investing so much on such things if you’ll never use it in my opinion.
When will amca used ? Same day ghatak will bomb rhe shit out of porkies and chinks
 

Bleh

Laughing member
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
6,174
Likes
25,851
Country flag
TVC is great for nose pointing ability but won't it cause a lot of drop in energy? AFAIK in a real turning fight the one with the higher T/W ratio is king.
It does for F-22 (especially more because it has higher drag compare to Su-27 family)... I read a report on joint exercises of NATO they all said that if Eurofighter Typhoon could enter the merge & turn tight enough to stay within the minimum range of engagement for AIM-9X (ie, 1600ft) it would result in a guaranteed kill for them.

AMCA Mark2 is slated to have TVC & similar T/W.. So while it's RCS should be higher than F-22, its shaping should allow it to retain & recover energy significantly better.
 

Trololo

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2017
Messages
701
Likes
2,183
Country flag
It does for F-22 (especially more because it has hired rather than Su-27 family)... I read a report on joint exercises of NATO they all said that if Eurofighter Typhoon could enter the merge & turn tight enough to stay within the minimum range of engagement for AIM-9X (ie, 1600ft) it would result in a guaranteed kill for them.

AMCA Mark2 is slated to have TVC & similar T/W.. So while it's RCS should be higher than F-22, its shaping should allow it to retain & recover energy significantly better.
One of the takeaways of the 2007 IAF-RAF exercises at RAF Paddington was that the Typhoon's high excess power puts it in a class of its own at high speed high altitude combat. Very difficult to beat even by the MKI.
 

Bleh

Laughing member
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
6,174
Likes
25,851
Country flag
One of the takeaways of the 2007 IAF-RAF exercises at RAF Paddington was that the Typhoon's high excess power puts it in a class of its own at high speed high altitude combat. Very difficult to beat even by the MKI.
Power output combined with its aerodynamic (again a tradeoff compared to stealthier Rafale) & its canard positioning (which jeopardises its slow speed handling but make it a great energy-fighter of all deltas).
 

Ajax01

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 29, 2020
Messages
360
Likes
1,183
Country flag
Stealth is achieved by either shaping improvements or material improvements. Perse if you have improved materials you can let go of some shaping constraints. For ex: -20dB reduction has been achieved in stealth materials over the entire X and Ku band. It is said that F22 has -40dB overall with shaping. If you get -20dB absorption even if your aircraft is a flat plate you can easily get 50 percent more ie -20dB more by shaping.
 

Bleh

Laughing member
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
6,174
Likes
25,851
Country flag
Stealth is achieved by either shaping improvements or material improvements.
Something you've missed is that, it becomes disproportionately harder to achieve stealth with only RAM coating & materials alone, as you go further.
Like unless you have the shaping to hide the engine fans there is nothing else you can do. Mig-35 reportedly has 1/4th the RCS of its predecessor, but cannot become a F-35, even if Russian somehow had superior materials.

But yes, AMCA most likely follows this strategy. To get a reasonable amount of stealthy structure, but not too much at the cost of aerodynamics.. then fully rely on materials & paint.
 

Lonewolf

Psychopathic Neighbour
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2021
Messages
7,300
Likes
27,599
Country flag
Smart you miss is that it becomes disproportionately harder to achieve stealth with only RAM coating & materials alone, as you go further.
Like unless you have the shaping to hide the engine fans there is nothing else you can do.

But yes, AMCA most likely follows this strategy. To get a reasonable amount of stealthy structure, but not too much at the cost of aerodynamics.. then fully rely on materials & paint.
And and and active stealth , ew is a inseparable part for proper fifth gen fighter
 

Trololo

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2017
Messages
701
Likes
2,183
Country flag
Something you've missed is that, it becomes disproportionately harder to achieve stealth with only RAM coating & materials alone, as you go further.
Like unless you have the shaping to hide the engine fans there is nothing else you can do. Mig-35 reported has 1/5th the RCS of its predecessor, but cannot become a F-35, even if Russian somehow had superior materials.

But yes, AMCA most likely follows this strategy. To get a reasonable amount of stealthy structure, but not too much at the cost of aerodynamics.. then fully rely on materials & paint.
Also like the Russians the IAF places high priority for WVR roles. So some compromise in stealth is expected. But in all likelihood the AMCA will come with relevant EW gear to deal with it.
 

Trololo

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2017
Messages
701
Likes
2,183
Country flag
Question:
1> When we say that the AMCA Mk2 will have 110KN class of engines, does it mean that the end wet thrust will be 110KN or are we looking at something in the 140-150KN mark?
2> What will be the amount of onboard electrical power generated? Both RR and IHI are putting a premium on onboard electrical power to drive next gen EW systems.
 

Lonewolf

Psychopathic Neighbour
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2021
Messages
7,300
Likes
27,599
Country flag
Question:
1> When we say that the AMCA Mk2 will have 110KN class of engines, does it mean that the end wet thrust will be 110KN or are we looking at something in the 140-150KN mark?
2> What will be the amount of onboard electrical power generated? Both RR and IHI are putting a premium on onboard electrical power to drive next gen EW systems.
And rr will be joint development partner , max thrust will be some 115 kn at max , dry at 75 kn , that will give 150 dry , and 230 kn wet , that's enough for amca ,better than f 35 , fc 31 ,
 

MonaLazy

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2019
Messages
1,320
Likes
7,893
the end wet thrust will be 110KN
Do note that jet engine performance degrades in hot Indian weather they will have to develop an engine that in the west (benchmark engine OEMs) develops 85-90/120-125 kN!! That has to fit in the size of a F-414 which the initial AMCA variants will be built around!

So 85/120kN is the European/US spec we are looking at.
 

FalconSlayers

धर्मो रक्षति रक्षितः
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2020
Messages
27,293
Likes
187,917
Country flag
this is a possible explanation.
Maybe Unlikely, because F-35 is single engined hence it required an additional pod over it for using it to deploy parachute when it is landing, but AMCA is twin engined and in the gap there is a part of the airframe which Protudes where the parachutes in twin engined aircrafts are usually kept.

Here our own Su-30MKI
1620637618029.png


Our Tejas is single engined hence it’s parachute deployment system is on top of the engine, included inside the vertical tail stabiliser.
1620637743919.jpeg




I might be wrong.
 

MirageBlue

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2020
Messages
556
Likes
3,274
Country flag
Question:
1> When we say that the AMCA Mk2 will have 110KN class of engines, does it mean that the end wet thrust will be 110KN or are we looking at something in the 140-150KN mark?
2> What will be the amount of onboard electrical power generated? Both RR and IHI are putting a premium on onboard electrical power to drive next gen EW systems.
The number quoted as the thrust is almost always the wet thrust, unless we're talking about a platform with an engine that doesn't have an afterburner section at all.
 

Bleh

Laughing member
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
6,174
Likes
25,851
Country flag
It would have to be for the F-414-INS6 since the replacement engine in the 110 kN category doesn't exist as yet.
Absolutely.. Plus the AMCA Mark2 would need to have considerable changes, kinda like LCA to MWF shift.

  1. Bigger air-intakes
  2. Reworked CG (big engines & its reinforced bay).
  3. Greater fuel capacity, likely a fuselage plug.
  4. Design changes to aerodynamically make up for the elongation.
  5. Enlarged wings to maintain payload.
 

Lonewolf

Psychopathic Neighbour
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2021
Messages
7,300
Likes
27,599
Country flag
Absolutely.. Plus the AMCA Mark2 would need to have considerable changes, kinda like LCA to MWF shift.

  1. Bigger air-intakes
  2. Reworked CG (big engines & its reinforced bay).
  3. Greater fuel capacity, likely a fuselage plug.
  4. Design changes to aerodynamically make up for the elongation.
  5. Enlarged wings to maintain payload.
15 ton empty weight ?
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top