AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[Dessert Storm]

Amca mk2 as per reports will have engine replaced and change in avionics and possibly change in structural and fuselage materials . Very low chance of design change.

There won't be substantial design changes, that's why probably it's called AMCA Mk2. A substantial design change would be a new aircraft which would take forward the combined learnings from AMCA Mk2 and Ghatak.
Going forward from AMCA into 2040s we may be flying a combo of:
(1) 4.5 Gen Fighters
(2) AMCA 5, 5.5
(3) Wingman aircraft, UCAV along with (1) & (2) above. Would take care of lesser hardpoints in (2) above.
(4) 6th Generation fighter (maybe a collaboration of 'equal standing').
(5) Heavy Bombers/DEW platforms.
(6) IAF may be Indian Air & Space Force.
*DEW would obviously play a part too. Where are the engines for that?

 

[patriots]

Timeline

View attachment 61864

These years mentioned are year of production.....
As LCA af mk2 willl fly before 2024 ....

 

[Suryavanshi]

Timeline

View attachment 61864

Me when it arrives on schedule.

Ahamudilla bros may god bless us.

 

[Akula]

By the time Indian airforce completes it's 100 years in 2032, I want to see AMCA mk1A flying with LCA mk1A, mk2, ORCA(?) and Ghatak.

 

[WolfPack86]

First Flight of AMCA in 2027, IAF wants 150 of them in Two variants

India is looking at a very tight deadline to develop next generation fighter jets for its air force and is seeking to leverage its requirement of over 450 new combat aircraft in the coming decade to develop an aeronautical ecosystem with the participation of the private sector. The Advanced Multirole Combat Aircraft (AMCA) project has been assigned an internal timeline to fly by 2027, which has been described as ‘very tight’ by the air force that is fully supporting the project. Air Chief Marshal RKS Bhadauria has indicated that the first two squadrons of the fighters will be powered by an imported engine while the remaining five are likely to get an indigenous power plant. As reported by ET, plans are afoot to create a joint venture, preferably led by the private sector, for manufacturing of these advanced jets, with the current deadline being set for 2028. Sharing details of the project, the air chief said that the plan is to induct 140-150 AMCA fighters in the coming decade, as well as additional LCA fighter jets. The air force is also looking at adding sixth generation technology on its AMCA fighters. “Directed energy weapons are on our wish list. What we want is to have some sixth generation technology on our fifth generation aircraft (AMCA),” the air chief said, adding that this could be in the anti missile system application. Listing out a number of aircraft manufacturing programmes in the offing — from AMCA to LCA and a range of helicopters besides transporters and trainers — the air chief said that this is the best time to develop an industrial ecosystem that would require public-private collaboration. As reported, India is likely to produce its next generation of fighter jets in a private sector-led JV, which could require investments of over Rs 2,500 crore from the selected company but would catapult it into a select league capable of manufacturing cutting edge aeronautical systems. India’s leading aero manufacturer, state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) is currently working out the costs involved and the structure of the planned JV.

First Flight of AMCA in 2027, IAF wants 150 of them in Two variants – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

 

[porky_kicker]

After seeing this you might realise why I was kind of curious about the vertical fins ( should have been visible near the sides of the nozzles ) and why I mentioned the possibility of ruddervators as a passing through.

Anyways no point musing over a pic , let's wait for aeroindia

 

[Suryavanshi]

Would they go for mass prototyping or just go with one solidified deisgn.
I wouldn't mind if they solidify design after 5 to 10 prototypes.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

There won't be substantial design changes, that's why probably it's called AMCA Mk2. A substantial design change would be a new aircraft which would take forward the combined learnings from AMCA Mk2 and Ghatak.
Going forward from AMCA into 2040s we may be flying a combo of:
(1) 4.5 Gen Fighters
(2) AMCA 5, 5.5
(3) Wingman aircraft, UCAV along with (1) & (2) above. Would take care of lesser hardpoints in (2) above.
(4) 6th Generation fighter (maybe a collaboration of 'equal standing').
(5) Heavy Bombers/DEW platforms.
(6) IAF may be Indian Air & Space Force.
*DEW would obviously play a part too. Where are the engines for that?

No Indian 6th Generation Fighter will get inducted before 2050. Everyone (except the dalals) want the 6th generation to be 100% indigenous. Given the steep rise in tech requirements from 5th gen engine to 6th gen engine, and the requirements in LASER weapons tech and better weapons, don't expect Indian 6th gen before 2050.

Heavy Bombers are another thing which we won't have to money for till 2040 at least. Till then, most of Indian Army's modernization would be mostly complete, so after that, IAF could think of developing a bomber. Not before.

2035-2050, AMCA Mk2 is our best bird. I bet Chinese will have a 6th gen out in 2035. They like to do propaganda.

View attachment 61865

After seeing this you might realise why I was curious about the vertical fins

You are right about the wings: leading edge roots are placed forward. Meaning lower wing loading.

 

[Dessert Storm]

No Indian 6th Generation Fighter will get inducted before 2050. Everyone (except the dalals) want the 6th generation to be 100% indigenous. Given the steep rise in tech requirements from 5th gen engine to 6th gen engine, and the requirements in LASER weapons tech and better weapons, don't expect Indian 6th gen before 2050.

Possible with a collaboration.

 

[A chauhan]

No Indian 6th Generation Fighter will get inducted before 2050. Everyone (except the dalals) want the 6th generation to be 100% indigenous. Given the steep rise in tech requirements from 5th gen engine to 6th gen engine, and the requirements in LASER weapons tech and better weapons, don't expect Indian 6th gen before 2050.

Heavy Bombers are another thing which we won't have to money for till 2040 at least. Till then, most of Indian Army's modernization would be mostly complete, so after that, IAF could think of developing a bomber. Not before.

2035-2050, AMCA Mk2 is our best bird. I bet Chinese will have a 6th gen out in 2035. They like to do propaganda.


You are right about the wings: leading edge roots are placed forward. Meaning lower wing loading.

I'll say "6th gen" is still a vague term, it depends on the perspective of the users.

 

[Suryavanshi]

Possible with a collaboration.

HAL production lines will lay mostly idle by 2030 so u have to do produce something so let it be 6 th gen aircraft.
America will field 6th gen before 2030, Europoors probably between 2035 to 2040 if we do it in 2040 than it won't be too bad.

 

[porky_kicker]

And sir you are knowledgeable ,so I can't argue with you

Bdw amca 1:1 model in making....we will know clearly...in aero india 2021

Being correct is more important than being knowledgeable.

I prefer the former and IMO so should everyone

 

[Karthi]

No Indian 6th Generation Fighter will get inducted before 2050. Everyone (except the dalals) want the 6th generation to be 100% indigenous. Given the steep rise in tech requirements from 5th gen engine to 6th gen engine, and the requirements in LASER weapons tech and better weapons, don't expect Indian 6th gen before 2050.

Heavy Bombers are another thing which we won't have to money for till 2040 at least. Till then, most of Indian Army's modernization would be mostly complete, so after that, IAF could think of developing a bomber. Not before.

2035-2050, AMCA Mk2 is our best bird. I bet Chinese will have a 6th gen out in 2035. They like to do propaganda.


You are right about the wings: leading edge roots are placed forward. Meaning lower wing loading.

HAL production lines will lay mostly idle by 2030 so u have to do produce something so let it be 6 th gen aircraft.
America will field 6th gen before 2030, Europoors probably between 2035 to 2040 if we do it in 2040 than it won't be to bad.

The picture USAF released was nothing more than a TD not even a prototype , the tech is available in other countries also . It's just a propoganda it will take atleast two decade to enter production or service .

And moreover if we develop a fourth generation airframe with modular construction and plug n play software , we can incorporate DEWs , advanced EW suites , Sensor fusion , 360 degree coverage , ling range Weapons eetc with in our budget we can avoid the costly maintenance and hangers .but we need Engines with adequate power, All we need to develop Rugged Radar absorbing/avoiding materials , sonrhat we can design anything .

 

[Dessert Storm]

The picture USAF released was nothing more than a TD not even a prototype , the tech is available in other countries also . It's just a propoganda it will take atleast two decade to enter production or service .

And moreover if we develop a fourth generation airframe with modular construction and plug n play software , we can incorporate DEWs , advanced EW suites , Sensor fusion , 360 degree coverage , ling range Weapons eetc with in our budget we can avoid the costly maintenance and hangers .but we need Engines with adequate power, All we need to develop Rugged Radar absorbing/avoiding materials , sonrhat we can design anything .

In my previous posts I have expressed my reservations about developing a 110kn class engine by 2030. Further, only RR has given clarity about IP and Variable Cycle not Safran. Why's the IAF ok with that thrust class? What am I missing?

 

[Emperor Kalki]

A single weapons bay reflects poorly on the designers , considering they had a decade to work on the design

It means no IR missiles on stealth missions.....seems like there isn't even space for staggered arrangement....

Then how the hell do they intent to let the CCM's seeker get a lock on the target.....are they going to just use an outer pylon rather than the weapon bays for CCM....
Or just gonna go ahead with just LOAL CCMs in primary bay/bays.....that would be a bad idea IMO....

Well staggered arrangement could be a way to improve there....but that would be just a speculation...and i don't wanna be the loony fanboy making that here.....and 4 BVRs is pretty much enough in a stealth config IMO...
But the problem is with the CCM config....

And the decision to avoid the side bays could be due to airflow variation caused by open bays and CCMs peeping out....but they could have gone with something similar to j 20 style simple but effective config....

And sorry for a late reply on this topic. I didn't get an alert from thus thread for some time.. i know, my bad..

 

[Dessert Storm]

Being correct is more important than being knowledgeable.

I prefer the former and IMO so should everyone

Both ain't mutually exclusive. But yes, if you are talking about picking one over other.

 

[Bleh]

That's a poor excuse , no space left . Who designed the aircraft . And was it not their responsibility to find a design ( which too more than a decade ) which offered more internal volume for weapons carriage. ADA was always retrogressive in their work . Less of scientists more of bureaucrats.

Just look at FC 31 it also doesn't have side bays and AMCA is similar to it.

If iaf is happy with that, we should not complain

Neither of you are correct in this case. Despite its size there had been AMCA's older designs that came with side-bays, or single 5 BVR ventral bay.

But IAF deemed it unnecessary & wanted more fuel instead at that space.

So, now is just has 2 joined ventral bays, that carries only 4 missiles.

Internal bay configuration was pretty much solidified long time ago.

 

[Bleh]

After seeing this you might realise why I was kind of curious about

After seeing this you might realise why I was kind of curious about the vertical fins ( should have been visible near the sides of the noz

zles ) and why I mentioned the possibility of ruddervators as a passing through.

Anyways no point musing over a pic , let's wait for aeroindia

Not really, with the new tailplanes. But interesting possibility... Especially when it's been tried before.

 

[Paras.Sharma]

Hi All,
I often read on forum & got a bit of understanding of aircrafts, per my understanding aircraft structure & engine thrust (dry) plays important role in supercruise without afterburners. I did a bit of data collection form Wiki & GE website on different aircraft (capable of supercruise) & jet engines. Below is the compiled table for reference.
Can anyone please help me/us understand will GE-414 EPE or our own engine of similar thrust be enough for AMCA to supercruise & fulfill energy needed by 6th (or 5.5) gen enhancements like directed energy weapons or other high energy usage weapon while under supercruise i.e. on Dry thrust only?

Aircraft Name	Empty weight	Gross weight	Max take off weight	Dry Thrust (N)	Wet Thrust (N)	T/W at Gross weight Dry Thrust	T/W Max takeoff weight Dry Thrust	T/W at Gross weight Wet Thrust	T/W Max takeoff weight Wet Thrust
F-22 Raptor	19700	29410	38000	116000	156000	0.80	0.62	1.08	0.84
Eurofighter Typhoon	11000	16000	23500	60000	90000	0.76	0.52	1.15	0.78
Dassault Rafale	9850	15000	24500	50000	75000	0.68	0.42	1.02	0.62
AMCA (TD) with current GE-F414 INS6	11000	18000	29000	58500	98000	0.66	0.41	1.11	0.69
AMCA MK1 (with GE-414 EPE) - estimated	11000	18000	29000	70000	116000	0.79	0.49	1.31	0.82

 

[vishnugupt]

Hi All,
I often read on forum & got a bit of understanding of aircrafts, per my understanding aircraft structure & engine thrust (dry) plays important role in supercruise without afterburners. I did a bit of data collection form Wiki & GE website on different aircraft (capable of supercruise) & jet engines. Below is the compiled table for reference.
Can anyone please help me/us understand will GE-414 EPE or our own engine of similar thrust be enough for AMCA to supercruise & fulfill energy needed by 6th (or 5.5) gen enhancements like directed energy weapons or other high energy usage weapon while under supercruise i.e. on Dry thrust only?

Aircraft Name	Empty weight	Gross weight	Max take off weight	Dry Thrust (N)	Wet Thrust (N)	T/W at Gross weight Dry Thrust	T/W Max takeoff weight Dry Thrust	T/W at Gross weight Wet Thrust	T/W Max takeoff weight Wet Thrust
F-22 Raptor	19700	29410	38000	116000	156000	0.80	0.62	1.08	0.84
Eurofighter Typhoon	11000	16000	23500	60000	90000	0.76	0.52	1.15	0.78
Dassault Rafale	9850	15000	24500	50000	75000	0.68	0.42	1.02	0.62
AMCA (TD) with current GE-F414 INS6	11000	18000	29000	58500	98000	0.66	0.41	1.11	0.69
AMCA MK1 (with GE-414 EPE) - estimated	11000	18000	29000	70000	116000	0.79	0.49	1.31	0.82

I haven't noticed ADA mentioned AMCA, a 29 ton jet, most of time they say 25 tons. If it is a 29 tons then its internal weapon carrying capacity looks small.