AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[ace009]

I doubt the configuration is even flight worthy. However, the F-22 does have smaller wings than comparable 3rd gen aircraft.

Here is an image for the F-22 concept evolution -

 

[p2prada]

It's just a concept model. AMCA design has not even started.

 

[ace009]

With all due respect to ADA and DRDO, what the f**k takes so long to "start" the design process? The first "concept model" came out in 2007-2008. It's been 3-4 years since then ...

 

[gogbot]

With all due respect to ADA and DRDO, what the f**k takes so long to "start" the design process? The first "concept model" came out in 2007-2008. It's been 3-4 years since then ...

May be you would know why , if you actually did some reading.

ADA did concept design and testing through its on pocket , for the last few years even before 2007.

There has been no government sanctioned project till 2010(where 2 billion was given as seed money), GoI would not have approved such an ambitious project before LCA was inducted.

IAF Air Staff requirements for the aircraft have only been released in 2010 and they are not final , and now they have to to perform feasibility study on those requirements , at the same time ADA is already in the process of re-design trying to match the ASR put forward. Design phase will only be complete in the next 1-2 years when the feasibility study is completed and changes can be put into practice , and of course wind tunnel testing and all that. After which the design would be frozen.

So why the f**K do i know all this shit and you are just another ignorant P***K bad mouthing DRDO , because i actually try to pay attention the last 3-4 years.

 

[p2prada]

With all due respect to ADA and DRDO, what the f**k takes so long to "start" the design process? The first "concept model" came out in 2007-2008. It's been 3-4 years since then ...

Civilian R&D is different from Military R&D. Military R&D is carried out by a hundred companies and thousands of workers. That's why it takes years to finish the project.

There is a huge gestation period between concept stage and product delivery. When LCA was taken up, the R&D involved was easier than the AMCA concept. The fact is LCA's technology existed at the time it was conceptualized and by the time it came out it, it had become obsolete. Hence, a Mk2 was mooted even before Mk1 was properly inducted.

This is the first time ADA is thinking far into the future with AMCA. This is the first time our aerospace industry will be building something that will have some level of credibility in the future after the product is delivered. Massive delays in the project takes it to further obsolescence. Therefore, military R&D evolves even after the final product is released. Both FMBT and AMCA developments are trying to establish technology that could be relevant in the future.

Military R&D isn't everybody's cup of tea. Private industry in India cannot contribute to the same level as a defence PSU. The Private industries will continue supporting or doing work that is outsourced from the Defence PSUs for another 40-50 years before they have the experience and the funds to carry out mega projects of their own. So, we have to make do with what we have.

AMCA's feasibility stage is set to end only by the end of this year. After that the design stage will start and will take 7 to 8 years before first flight. Then another 5 years for full scale inductions; as long as they do flight tests twice as fast as LCA with lesser number of prototypes.

 

[black eagle]

 

[Crusader53]

IMHO,


Test Flights schedule: Post 2017

Provisional IAF Induction: Around 2025

Pilot Configuration: Single Seat (Twin seat Trainer)

Empty Weight: 10tons

Loaded Weight: 15tons

Operational Range: 3000-4000Km

Combat Radius:: 1000-1500Km.

LOL

The aircraft does not exsist at this stage...........

 

[nrj]

AMCA artist's impression....

Fabulous impression!

Looks like skinny brother of raptor.... :thumb:

LOL

The aircraft does not exist at this stage...........

So what?

What are you trying to imply?

 

[p2prada]

LOL

The aircraft does not exsist at this stage...........

LOL?>>> It does not. LOLOLOLOL!!!! L3337777 Kkekekekekeke!!!

 

[Tshering22]

I wish FGFA variant can be made into something like this considering the underbelly internal bay "blanket cover" (sorry dunno the technical term). The design looks promising. (Even F-35A and B has small wings).

 

[black eagle]

 

[Tshering22]

Any ideas people whether only Astra will be arming the AMCA as Indian made AAM? Or do we have AGMs that are Indian made as well? Please shed light on this.

 

[ppgj]

Looking at the design...I seriously doubt the performance and lift characteristics of the aircraft...the wing is too small.

satish, i guess you are referring to this model.

my own impression is that this model is not the replica of the model ADA is working on. why i say this is because if you look at this official ADA brochure (take a close look at the AMCA picture in the centre) - you can make out the model just does not match the image!!

here -

for ex - take a look at the elevon shaping. exactly similar to the main wing in terms of edge matching - both leading and trailing edges and also the wing tip edges. this is right.

OTOH the model has elevon shaping which does not match the wings at all which is perplexing!!! and also the wing tip edge does not match with elevon wing tip!!!

to answer your main point, if you look at the wings in both, you can visually make out the model somehow does not look correct when compared to the picture in the ADA brochure which shows much larger wing area!!! take a closer look at the wing root joint at the trailing edge of the main wing. it joins 'more aft' on the fuselage than the one shown in the model (ref : the tail fin root).

i don't understand how this model is there?? is it the offcial ADA wind tunnel model?? i think not. if it was - you would be seeing a placard saying it is so - like, in this model -

 

[ppgj]

@satish, just a clarification -

just taking forward from my last post, it seems the model is also from the ADA brochure here -

which means 2 ADA brochures showing differently. suffice to say the model or the picture in the last brochure are 'not frozen'. IMO that should be out sometime within the year.

i would be more happy with the picture in the brochure of the last post. even if they change the elevon shaping at the trailing edge it should only be like - 'chopping' a small triangle at the corner close to the engine nozzles and with the edges matching the leading edges. that would be fine.

however if i take both the model and the picture one thing that is 'satisfying' is the engines are well hidden. if i draw 2 lines along the tail fin roots (IOW the along edges of the turbofans) towards the cockpit, it ends roughly around the inner lip of the intakes adjacent to the cockpit!! also if one takes into consideration the serpentine 'S' air channel 'along the lateral axis' - that would safely hide the engine FAN blades.

so all in all a good design IMO. take it fwiw.

 

[SATISH]

@ppgj

The design process is yet to start and even the feasibility tests havent been started. The technologies havent been identified and above all ADA has not even allocated its engineers officially. I just put forth my concerns about that model.

 

[ppgj]

@ppgj

The design process is yet to start and even the feasibility tests havent been started. The technologies havent been identified and above all ADA has not even allocated its engineers officially. I just put forth my concerns about that model.

agreed. infact i said myself that neither of the designs have been frozen. it was just a reply based on the unfrozen model and another picture from the ADA brochure. however the frozen design would not be 'radically' different from the ones shown and my pick would be the one in the brochure for the reasons i enumerated in the past.

 

[sandeepdg]

Any ideas people whether only Astra will be arming the AMCA as Indian made AAM? Or do we have AGMs that are Indian made as well? Please shed light on this.

I believe that anything other than the Astra will be usual Russian missiles like the R-73, R-27, R-77, KH-29 AGM and maybe the KAB-500 laser guided bombs. We don't have any Indian AGMs as yet.

 

[nrj]

I believe that anything other than the Astra will be usual Russian missiles like the R-73, R-27, R-77, KH-29 AGM and maybe the KAB-500 laser guided bombs. We don't have any Indian AGMs as yet.

Lookout for A2G Nirbhay. MKI will be armed with it soon & I'm hopeful for AMCA too. Although I feel addition of weight may bring problems to AMCA but it can be sorted out.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

i think the amca and fgfa will be armed with astra mk2.also can anyone confirm that whether the range of a cruise missile increase if it this air launched than its ground launched version?

 

[Tshering22]

Lookout for A2G Nirbhay. MKI will be armed with it soon & I'm hopeful for AMCA too. Although I feel addition of weight may bring problems to AMCA but it can be sorted out.

Nirbhays would be pointless on MKIs. That's the whole reason why BrahMos has been modified for the aerial version. BrahMos's most lethal advantage that Nirbhay as an ALCM would not have is its demonic speed. Nirbhay's advantage is everything that BrahMos has minus that speed. It will still be best aimed for Army and Navy use rather than ALCM.

Although I really wish we could use some sort of larger modified aircraft (transporter or MRMR variety) which could act as BrahMos launcher. 1 huge airliner armed with 2 dozen BrahMos. Imagine that.. :evil:

I really hope our programme goes beyond just Astra since we seriously need AGMs and more variants of AAMs. We could initially join up with Rafael and NPO Machinostroniye to co-produce newer missiles and even export them. R-73 and R-77s are getting old. We need new meat and semi-indigenous/100% indigenous.