Al-Khalid MBT And Pakistani Armour

[Kunal Biswas]

Chinese productis known for their quality.

Chinese product made in Pakistan under tot..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

It is not my logic.

Indeed its not your, I am just referring the comment with the term 'Generation' as for marketing purpose induced by US companies ..

 

[Akim]

Indeed its not your, I am just referring the comment with the term 'Generation' as for marketing purpose induced by US companies ..

She was simplified, beginning a zero report with an aviation (a reactive era began for them). To be correct - they are named by "the tanks of post-war generation» (1,2,3,3+, 3++).

 

[p2prada]

Aircraft generations are also considered during and after WW2 ended. The jet age with the Me-262 as the first of the first generation.

 

[Damian]

Ok it seems I need to make some corrections here.

First, tank generations are:

WWI Generation.
Interwar Generation.
WWII Generation.

Now here are post WWII Generations:

1st Generation are tanks like T-54, T-55, M47, M48, Centurion.
2nd Generation are tanks like M60, T-62, Leopard 1, Chieftain, AMX-30.
3rd Generation are tanks like M1/M1IP/M1A1 (and it's pre 1990's modifications), Leopard 2A1/A4, Challenger 1, T-64, T-72, T-80.
3rd + Generation are tanks like M1A1SA/M1A2SEP, Leopard 2A5/A6, Leclerc, Challenger 2, Merkava Mk4, T-84M Oplot, T-90MS Tagil.

Ah and one more thing, it is truth that in design concept both T-72 and T-80 are further development of T-64, but only in overall design concept. As a vehicles from mechanical point of view, both 3 (T-64, T-72 and T-80) are completely separate, simultanously designed vehicles, because time between their designing was preatty short.

 

[farhan_9909]

dude just because u closed your eye that does not means that the whole world is in the dark....... yes the T72 of indian army had problems in past and now
the latest upgrades are

1. Polish SKO-1T DRAWA-T fire control systems/thermal imagers supplied by the Polish PCO/Cenzin (from PT-91 Twardy)

2. DRDO explosive reactive armour

3. A navigation system from Israel 's Tamam

4. German Litef or South African RDI

5. A locally developed laser illumination warning system

6. New radios manufactured by Tadiran or GES Marconi and an improved NBC protection system will be fitted.

7. The tank is planned to be powered by a 1,000 hp (750 kW) S-1000 engine made by the Polish firm PZL-Wola (also from PT-91 Twardy).

It is also upgraded with new fire detection and suppression systems and laser warning systems on either side of the turret. Also known as Combat Improved Ajeya.

India's L&T, Raytheon, Join on T-72 Tank Upgrade | Defense News | defensenews.com

how many are upgraded?
Upgrade seen good but still wont make them on par with type85II

 

[farhan_9909]

Pakistan is marketing al khalid for export i dont know products made under tot can be exported?

Still cant understand why would even pak manufacture it under license when even the basic aj dont have 5-10% of Chinese components

Where in ak1 i doubt even 5%
and in Close future in AK2 i doubt even zero %

instead of throwing mud over each other tank and calling them copies and blah blah
we should just concentrate on the technical side

despite not even remotely related to engineering,i will try my level best

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Upgrade seen good but still wont make them on par with type85II

What is the FCS of Type -85 some specs or name ? provided you know about its..

What type of 125mm gun on type-85 service in PA ? Hope its not degraded 125mm gun used in Al-Khalid..

Does this Type-85 have CITV ? like in Al-khalid, Does CITV have thermal vision to be a pure hunter killer ?

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Assuming you lack knowledge about such details and as always making wild claims..

instead of throwing mud over each other tank and calling them copies and blah blah
we should just concentrate on the technical side

despite not even remotely related to engineering,i will try my level best

If that hurts, Deal with it..

T-59 is Chinese clone of T-55, which is updated & Known as AL-zarra with Space Armour and a 125mm not as par as 2A46M/1/2..

type 96 was a 2nd gen tank Such as your arjun.

Mbt2000 was a jv based on type90(China first 3rd gen tank).

Avoid playing this way..

 

[farhan_9909]

What is the FCS of Type -85 some specs or name ? provided you know about its..

What type of 125mm gun on type-85 service in PA ? Hope its not degraded 125mm gun used in Al-Khalid..

Does this Type-85 have CITV ? like in Al-khalid, Does CITV have thermal vision to be a pure hunter killer ?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Assuming you lack knowledge about such details and as always making wild claims..




If that hurts, Deal with it..

T-59 is Chinese clone of T-55, which is updated & Known as AL-zarra with Space Armour and a 125mm not as par as 2A46M/1/2..



Avoid playing this way..

you dont know about any thing regarding guns in pak tanks and blindly calling them downgraded.

Even the gun on al Zarar has a better muzzle velocity than the one on arjun.

My response was to your post.since the part few days.the only thing i hear from you is blindly calling AK useless.

And today you were calling t72 superior to AK
while at present there is nothing comparable to AK1 in the region unless you guys gets hand on t90ms

 

[farhan_9909]

 

[farhan_9909]

Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf gives a model of Al Khalid MBT to Lt Gen Mykhailo Borysiuk, General Designer of Armoured Vehicles and Artillery Systems

 

[Kunal Biswas]

you dont know about any thing regarding guns in pak tanks and blindly calling them downgraded.

Even the gun on al Zarar has a better muzzle velocity than the one on arjun.

My response was to your post.since the part few days.the only thing i hear from you is blindly calling AK useless.

And today you were calling t72 superior to AK

Well expected, you dont have any thing to back you claims and avoiding with diversions such as Arjun etc..

1. Calling a cheap T-55 clone upgrade as par as T-80UD and close to T-90S in terms of electronic..
2. AK is waste of money, Damian explained in details back few pages..
3. T-72 in IA are better with there 2A46M than some copied 125mm gun provided as proof there chamber pressure also better cover with ERA even roof..
4. I have sufficient proof to back my claims only after reading your tank deign and gun specs..

While in the mean time you have utter failed to provide proof about your claims and you dont even provide link to back up such claim, some poster from other forum least matter without creditable logic and proof of some kind..

while at present there is nothing comparable to AK1 in the region unless you guys gets hand on t90ms

In your wildest dream under blind Nationalism..

 

[EzioAltaïr]

you dont know about any thing regarding guns in pak tanks and blindly calling them downgraded.

Even the gun on al Zarar has a better muzzle velocity than the one on arjun.

My response was to your post.since the part few days.the only thing i hear from you is blindly calling AK useless.

And today you were calling t72 superior to AK
while at present there is nothing comparable to AK1 in the region unless you guys gets hand on t90ms

And what do you back your claims with but nationalism?

 

[farhan_9909]

with varta

 

[farhan_9909]

Well expected, you dont have any thing to back you claims and avoiding with diversions such as Arjun etc..

1. Calling a cheap T-55 clone upgrade as par as T-80UD and close to T-90S in terms of electronic..
2. AK is waste of money, Damian explained in details back few pages..
3. T-72 in IA are better with there 2A46M than some copied 125mm gun provided as proof there chamber pressure also better cover with ERA even roof..
4. I have sufficient proof to back my claims only after reading your tank deign and gun specs..

While in the mean time you have utter failed to provide proof about your claims and you dont even provide link to back up such claim, some poster from other forum least matter without creditable logic and proof of some kind..



In your wildest dream under blind Nationalism..

i said as per Ukrainian the al Zarar upgrade Program to bring them Close to t80ud level.check out in global security

strange your taking damian post serious

well as said before the t72 are slightly inferior to our al Zarar.only if they are not the upgraded one.

Seems like you dont even know about guns and there chamber pressure.(will post Am articLE about guns chamber pressure and there effect,muzzle velocity

the al Zarar gun muzzle velocity for a round is 1730m/s(posted in the guns thread)
while just 1600m/s for the 19th century invented rifled gun of arjun(posted in the same thread)

well tell me to provide proof about the following,i will post it

and wake up and drop your underestimation habit

again nothing comparable to AK1 in the region
this is reality now.the sooner you accept the better it is

 

[farhan_9909]

Ukraine is a key partner in the production of the Al-Khalid tank which is a joint venture between China, Pakistan and Ukraine. Ukraine is also providing assistance to Pakistan in the Upgrade/Re-Build its T-59 tanks to the Al-Zarar Configuration, which is intended to match the T-80UD tanks. In February 2002 Ukraine announced that the Malyshev plant would provide another 315 engines for Al-Khalid tanks over three years. The contract's estimated value was $125-150 million.

Al Khalid MBT-2000 / Type 2000 Main Battle Tank

 

[farhan_9909]

all the pakistani type 85 were upgraded to type 85 III standard and the major difference was a 1000hp engine.

While the t72 still has to get a 1000hp engine.
And just the t90s has a 1200 hp engine.
The older had 1000hp.

Pakistan Military Consortium :: www.PakDef.info

 

[EzioAltaïr]

all the pakistani type 85 were upgraded to type 85 III standard and the major difference was a 1000hp engine.

While the t72 still has to get a 1000hp engine.
And just the t90s has a 1200 hp engine.
The older had 1000hp.

Pakistan Military Consortium :: www.PakDef.info

60% of our T-72 Ajeyas are of the mk 2 standard (meaning they have a 1000hp engine).

All the T-90S and T-90M Bhishmas have a 1250 hp engine.

T-72 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

T-72 operators and variants - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

T-90 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[p2prada]

i said as per Ukrainian the al Zarar upgrade Program to bring them Close to t80ud level.check out in global security

I don't see how Ukraine being involved in the Al Zarrar program will make it better than the T-80UD. Irrespective of all the electronics, the basic layout of the tank is still from the 60s and 70s.

Lockheed Martin is involved in the Taiwanese fighter program F-CK-1, but it is not as good as the F-16. LM was also involved in JF-17 early on and it is not better than the F-16. EADS is involved in LCA, that won't make it better than the Typhoon.

Israelis are involved in the Arjun. That does not mean Arjun will be better than the Merkava Mark IV.

An upgrade program always makes the tank better than before, nothing to say it will be better than already superior designs.

As for the AK, as long as it has the old Type 90 turret, it won't be better than the T-90/T-80. If you claim the turret on AK-2 is brand new then it becomes more believable and a picture will prove it. But if you say the AK-2 will have the same turret as AK-1 then the claim of it being superior to T-90S will go for a toss.

Greater weight does not relate to higher protection.

The Type 99 isn't particularly impressive either, unless you claim AK-2 is better than Type 99 too.

 

[EzioAltaïr]

And to add to that, Pakistan has too few numbers of the upgraded and modern variants to brag about. Our fleet of Bhishmas and Arjuns together is equal in number to the entire modernised section of Pakistani tanks, consisting of T-80UDs, Al Khalids, Type 85 IIAPs, and Al- Zarrars. The majority of their armour is Type 69s, Type 59, and M48s.