ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[Vamsi]

US provide India technology for single crystal turbine blades used in jet engines.

Spoiler: wlvn

No, it's just about coatings on SCBs, not the blade casting

 

[Blackmamba]

Be aware of the fact: it took Russians 5-6 years to add canard on their Su-30 after their Su-30 entered service even though they already had other plane with canard designing experience before that.
Considering Indian scientists had much less experience in aerodynamic design comparing to Russians and zero experience of canard before MK2, the time should be much longer.

So, my guess is: when ADA made up the timeline, they probably believed that French would provide some help in aerodynamic outfit (who had plenty experiences in this), but the deal wasn't settled successfully.

Stop sprouting nonsense from your rear end, either back up your claim with a source or shut up.

 

[MonaLazy]

 

[FactsPlease]

Can you tell us what do we lack?

Breath... ...

-- Can't stop myself. Deletion deserved at Mod will.

 

[MonaLazy]

F414 jet engines deal could increase India's reliance on US - The Week

 

[Azaad]

F414 jet engines deal could increase India's reliance on US - The Week

He's putting the cart before the horse. It would've been hopelessly one sided with fatal dependence on the US had we not struck this deal & depended solely on imports. Right now what we've done is mitigation of the risk factor to a great extent.

Our dependence on the US with this deal isn't fatal PROVIDED we move on to solve the other parts of the equation namely development & certification of the latest variant of the Kaveri TF to at least an advanced version of the F-404 if not better within the next 10-12 yrs & co development of the 120 KN TF for the AMCA Mk-2 .

Without these , that dependence on the US will continue & eventually prove to be dangerous .

 

[Abhijat]

We would be still totally dependent on U.S as they hold rest of the critical and non replaceable technology components.

Also any reading on how this is different from Al-31, and how would it provide us with knowledge about engine know-why and solve our own Kaveri problem which presumably latter couldn't do so ?

Also, if possible don't mind the percentage thrown around, it's all 'indrajal'

 

[Suryavanshi]

What is the logic of keeping it at 80% why not 100% what parts are they keeping away from us?

 

[Blademaster]

What is the logic of keeping it at 80% why not 100% what parts are they keeping away from us?

That 20% is everything you need to produce the engine yourself. Without that 20%, India is completely dependent on US to keep its Tejas planes flying.

 

[jai jaganath]

What is the logic of keeping it at 80% why not 100% what parts are they keeping away from us?

ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

Can you tell us what do we lack? Going through other threads and pdfs I understood that first thing these aren't the only critical things there are others which as usual they won't share Secondly our desired numbers can't be achieved not bcoz absence of basic hot section components but their...

defenceforumindia.com

ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

Can you tell us what do we lack? Going through other threads and pdfs I understood that first thing these aren't the only critical things there are others which as usual they won't share Secondly our desired numbers can't be achieved not bcoz absence of basic hot section components but their...

defenceforumindia.com

 

[Delta Squad]

What is the logic of keeping it at 80% why not 100% what parts are they keeping away from us?

Don't know whether I am right or wrong, a general trend I see in terms of indegenization is percentage by value is always less than percentage by component. Some subsystem costs more, some less. For example, in a news on LCH it was like 75% Indegenous by component and 60% Indegenous by value (figures may slightly differ, but trend is same).
Now, here it is being said that 80% by value, so expect around 90-95% by component.... Probably, ToT on a handful of highly critical component( probably related to hot core) is not being given. Again I may be wrong, but it's my opinion.

 

[Azaad]

What is the logic of keeping it at 80% why not 100% what parts are they keeping away from us?

Parts involved in the hot section , the core of the TF. If that's known we can mfg the TF on our own without US help .

 

[Suryavanshi]

Parts involved in the hot section , the core of the TF. If that's known we can mfg the TF on our own without US help .

Might sound retarded but I think we should drop this deal and and go grind really really hard to achieve the remaining 20%.
This deal seems to be our insurance against failure in developing hot section.

Or is that 20% really that unachievable?

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Might sound retarded but I think we should drop this deal and and go grind really really hard to achieve the remaining 20%.
This deal seems to be our insurance against failure in developing hot section.

Or is that 20% really that unachievable?

Yea drop the deal and drop Tejas and amca too then? Cause then both of these planes are delayed by atleast 6-10 years

 

[Azaad]

Might sound retarded but I think we should drop this deal and and go grind really really hard to achieve the remaining 20%.
This deal seems to be our insurance against failure in developing hot section.

Or is that 20% really that unachievable?

That 20% is the reason why the Kaveri as it exists today is under performing. As far as the rest of your post goes there are other developments in the pipeline to cater to the issue of developing a TF in-house. Refer to my previous post.

 

[Bleh]

Just get a license production deal for 120kN engine.. plis Modi. I'm sowwy about calling your govt a hijra. Swear won't do it again no matter what the fuck up

 

[jai jaganath]

Might sound retarded but I think we should drop this deal and and go grind really really hard to achieve the remaining 20%.
This deal seems to be our insurance against failure in developing hot section.

Or is that 20% really that unachievable?

Point is learning
They giving nothing else other than coating and machining tech so I would personally rate below al-31 in terms of deal and indigenization

 

[MonaLazy]

Might sound retarded but I think we should drop this deal and and go grind really really hard to achieve the remaining 20%.

Drop the deal, lose even the 80% and get back to square 1. We have been grinding on Kaveri for 40 years- and it is still not considered good enough for Mk1 Tejas.

While we can curse the Americans all we want- what has been stated often in various news articles is that this level of tech transfer is unprecedented.

US-India Landmark Jet Engine Deal Includes Unprecedented 80 Per Cent Tech Transfer By Value: Report

During the upcoming state visit by Prime Minister Narendra Modi to the United States, India and the US are set to sign a deal for the co-production of General Electric's F414 fighter jet engine

swarajyamag.com

The US has not shared engine technology to this extent with any other nation. A source familiar with the deal stated, "This level of technology transfer has not been given by the US, the UK, and France to any country."

We can flog ourselves over not having succeeded despite GTRE's 40 years or cry hoarse that US has not been kind to us in the tech arena in the past (cryogenics et al). Either that OR we can run with this 80%, focus our best brains and start-ups on the balance 20% (which admittedly is the hardest part of the puzzle) and be forever free in designing our own jet engines. The choice is entirely ours.

In 3 years when this tech is fully absorbed I'd like to see what if any are the ripple effects on Kaveri. Also want to add this tech will put us ahead of both Russian and Chinese engines. That is pretty significant!

That 20% is the reason why the Kaveri as it exists today is under performing

It's not the 20% it is the full 100%. Otherwise, why would we seek it's ToT if we have mastered it?

 

[Arjun Mk1A]

Might sound retarded but I think we should drop this deal and and go grind really really hard to achieve the remaining 20%.
This deal seems to be our insurance against failure in developing hot section.

Or is that 20% really that unachievable?

Dropping the deal is the suicide man. Till now we did not hear a single word from GTRE folks regarding the roadmap of Kaveri. This is the red flag. Roadmap in the sense, how much we achieved and how much we need to achieve. All the available information we had is basically curated by some journalist or defense followers.

We lack resources for testing, we don't have sufficient tech partners now.

The best solution is to sign the GE deal for present scenario and meanwhile prepare the roadmap for Kaveri and start funding parallelly.

 

[Azaad]

It's not the 20% it is the full 100%. Otherwise, why would we seek it's ToT if we have mastered it?

Other than the hot parts of the engine, the rest of the Kaveri is delivering fine. How else could it have been chosen to power the Ghatak or GTRE could come up with a 12 MW Marine version of the Kaveri ? That's precisely the 20% which is out of the scope of the ToT with GE & that's precisely what we've finally got down to mfg at HAL Koraput with the AL-31 ( still a few missing parts of the puzzle though for which we're dependent on the Russians).