ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[MonaLazy]

Other than the hot parts of the engine, the rest of the Kaveri is delivering fine.

No hot parts- no thrust! Like saying the car's engine is not working, the rest of it is delivering fine!

How else could it have been chosen to power the Ghatak or GTRE could come up with a 12 MW Marine version of the Kaveri ? That's precisely the 20% which is out of the scope of the ToT with GE & that's precisely what we've finally got down to finally mfg at HAL Koraput with the AL-31 ( still a few missing parts of the puzzle though for which we're dependent on the Russians).

Please look up the specs of RR's MT30 to get an idea of the yawning gap in tech. Marine applications in any case are not as demanding as aerial applications- KMGT is a consolation prize. AL-31 is nowhere near the material science of F414- reflected in their durability.

 

[MonaLazy]

Quoting IDRW,

F-414: HAL to get 80% ToT, GE Lists out ToT details – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

The deal to jointly manufacture the potent GE F414-INS6 aero-engine in India for an upgraded version of India’s indigenous Tejas MkII fighter aircraft is inching closer to its conclusion. New details are emerging, shedding light on the level of Transfer of Technology (ToT) and the specific areas that will be covered by this agreement.

The Transfer of Technology for the F414 engine to India is expected to be around 78-80 per cent initially, with the potential to reach 100 per cent over the next decade or more. This progression will depend on the requirements of the Indian Air Force (IAF) and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited’s (HAL) ability to assimilate the advanced technology.


GE has provided a breakdown of the areas that will be covered under the Transfer of Technology for the F414 engine. This includes coating and machining of single crystal turbine blades, machining and coating of hot end parts, complete tech transfer for blisk machining, machining of powder metallurgy, polymer matrix composites, and laser drilling for combustion.

While HAL will have the opportunity to manufacture the engines, it is important to note that GE will retain the intellectual property rights (IPR) of the engine. Each engine produced by HAL will require pre-approval from GE. India is prohibited from making unauthorized modifications to the engine, but there is scope for collaboration to carry out further engine advancements that align with India’s specific requirements.

This collaboration marks a significant milestone in India’s efforts to enhance its indigenous defence capabilities. The GE F414-INS6 engine, with its advanced features and performance capabilities, will contribute to the improved operational capabilities of the Tejas MkII aircraft. The ToT component of the deal will not only boost India’s defence manufacturing capabilities but also foster technological self-reliance in the long run.

 

[jai jaganath]

Other than the hot parts of the engine, the rest of the Kaveri is delivering fine. How else could it have been chosen to power the Ghatak or GTRE could come up with a 12 MW Marine version of the Kaveri ? That's precisely the 20% which is out of the scope of the ToT with GE & that's precisely what we've finally got down to mfg at HAL Koraput with the AL-31 ( still a few missing parts of the puzzle though for which we're dependent on the Russians).

Nah
To be specific u might be correct in past I mean yeah metallurgy was the key issue why desired thrust wasn't achievable
Hot core section even then was giving required thrust but again issue was how much it can sustain in high temp
And problems lied in AB section too thats the the reason giving only 75-78kn if I am not wrong
But due to our constant effort and development in modern material science by our institution has led to more refined core which was provided 45kn in dry stage is now able to cross 50kn that's why it's selected for ghatak
Basically success of Kaveri now lies on success of ghatak program
If ghatak succeeded then govt may give permission for full scale development of aero engine based on improved core used in dry variant that would help them rectifying the problems in AB section using knewly acquired knowledge on material sciences
So fingers crossed

 

[Azaad]

No hot parts- no thrust! Like saying the car's engine is not working, the rest of it is delivering fine!



Please look up the specs of RR's MT30 to get an idea of the yawning gap in tech. Marine applications in any case are not as demanding as aerial applications- KMGT is a consolation prize. AL-31 is nowhere near the material science of F414- reflected in their durability.

Since you're being pedantic to the point of fault, it was the metallurgy which wasn't upto the mark. Kaveri couldn't generate thrust beyond 78 KN in wet thrust thru AFB & more importantly couldn't sustain it.

SARRAN diagnosed the problem, suggested solutions which would require rebuilding the entire core for which fresh funds would have to be sought alternatively offering their M-88 core to power the Kaveri for a price, royalties & no IP - an offer they'd made way back in 2007-08 which was rejected by GTRE, IAF & MoD.

Speculations by BRF guys on Twitter around a year back seemed to suggest that GTRE rejected the offer from SAFRAN partly because they were confident of getting the entire thing right on their own. So, why didn't they get a new project sanctioned by the MoD, you may ask? Good question.

Well the idea behind not immediately sanctioning such a project by MoD was apparently the Ghatak program carrying the non AFB TF of the Kaveri fructifying post which the grapevine went a new indigenous project for yet another derivative of the Kaveri to replace the F-404 on board the LCA Mk-1 / Mk-1a during the MLU a decade from now, was to be sanctioned.

Whoever we chose as our partner for the JV for co development of 120 KN TF would also serve as consultant cum trouble shooter for this project. That's the long & short of it . Let's see how much of this comes true in the time to come. Fingers crossed.

As far as AL-31 is concerned, at least it's flying & delivering whatever the Russkies expected from it, irrespective if their material science isn't upto western standards as has been the case with all their TFs. Ditto for the WS series from China too. What wouldn't we give to be in their shoes today?

 

[Arjun Mk1A]

Since you're being pedantic to the point of fault, it was the metallurgy which wasn't upto the mark. Kaveri couldn't generate thrust beyond 78 KN in wet thrust thru AFB & more importantly couldn't sustain it.

SARRAN diagnosed the problem, suggested solutions which would require rebuilding the entire core for which fresh funds would have to be sought alternatively offering their M-88 core to power the Kaveri for a price, royalties & no IP - an offer they'd made way back in 2007-08 which was rejected by GTRE, IAF & MoD.

Speculations by BRF guys on Twitter around a year back seemed to suggest that GTRE rejected the offer from SAFRAN partly because they were confident of getting the entire thing right on their own. So, why didn't they get a new project sanctioned by the MoD, you may ask? Good question.

Well the idea behind not immediately sanctioning such a project by MoD was apparently the Ghatak program carrying the non AFB TF of the Kaveri fructifying post which the grapevine went a new indigenous project for yet another derivative of the Kaveri to replace the F-404 on board the LCA Mk-1 / Mk-1a during the MLU a decade from now, was to be sanctioned.

Whoever we chose as our partner for the JV for co development of 120 KN TF would also serve as consultant cum trouble shooter for this project. That's the long & short of it . Let's see how much of this comes true in the time to come. Fingers crossed.

As far as AL-31 is concerned, at least it's flying & delivering whatever the Russkies expected from it, irrespective if their material science isn't upto western standards as has been the case with all their TFs. Ditto for the WS series from China too. What wouldn't we give to be in their shoes today?

Don't know why people shitting on AL Series engines. It is the monster of its own. As per the durability of the engine with respect to western engine is a question mark. We don't have enough information for a comparison. Out of that IAF were happy with flying them and the Russians does not have problem with flying them in the Ukranian war.

 

[Azaad]

Don't know why people shitting on AL Series engines. It is the monster of its own. As per the durability of the engine with respect to western engine is a question mark. We don't have enough information for a comparison. Out of that IAF were happy with flying them and the Russians does not have problem with flying them in the Ukranian war.

Excuse me ! Where did I pour scorn on the AL series of TFs ?

 

[Arjun Mk1A]

Excuse me ! Where did I pour scorn on the AL series of TFs ?

I am talking out our @MonaLazy fellow.

 

[Azaad]

I am talking out our @MonaLazy fellow.

Quote him then . What's the point quoting me to criticize him .

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Yo experts alpha defence just said with this deal G.E will help us in kaveri hot core or something anyone else has any insight?

 

[Gyyan]

Yo experts alpha defence just said with this deal G.E will help us in kaveri hot core or something anyone else has any insight?

They also said we can make AL-31 class engine.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

They also said we can make AL-31 class engine.

I think they said that we have just indigenoused it

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

And they also said we might here something from a company in us which does jet engine testing after Modi's visit any clue about the company? Experts @Azaad @MonaLazy anyone else?

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

And they said after AMCA mk2 engine is done we will have a reprogram which will be to replace engines of Tejas mk2 and amca mk1

 

[Azaad]

And they also said we might here something from a company in us which does jet engine testing after Modi's visit any clue about the company? Experts @Azaad @MonaLazy anyone else?

Whoa ! Expert ?? No expert here . No clue buddy . Not informed on this aspect.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Whoa ! Expert ?? No expert here . No clue buddy . Not informed on this aspect.

You all are experts According to me lol I have 0 knowledge

 

[Azaad]

You all are experts According to me lol I have 0 knowledge

The real expert here is @jai jaganath . Keep an eye out for him . He comes up with a lot of exposes. And googlies. And exposes in the form of googlies . And vice versa. He's a modest man of many talents.

 

[MonaLazy]

G.E will help us in kaveri hot core

In 3 years when this tech is fully absorbed I'd like to see what if any are the ripple effects on Kaveri.

Was wondering the same in the afternoon and I thought we will see something in 3 years time, but lo and behold!

https://www.aninews.in/news/national/general-news/drdo-lab-to-get-knowhow-of-critical-tech-as-part-of-ge-deal-will-help-indigenous-engine-programmes-officials20230618201847/

DRDO lab to get knowhow of critical tech as part of GE deal, will help indigenous engine programmes: Officials
ANI | Updated: Jun 18, 2023 20:18 IST

New Delhi [India], June 18 (ANI): Gas Turbine Research Establishment-- a DRDO lab involved in the development of indigenous engines-- would be part of the proposed deal with American GE for manufacturing jet engines in India, which would help them gain expertise in the field, government officials said.
The officials said the American firm in an "unprecedented move" is sharing manufacturing technology for engines which is 80 per cent by cost.
GTRE is a Defence Research and Development Organisation laboratory based in Bengaluru and has developed the Kaveri engine which was supposed to originally power the LCA Tejas aircraft variants.
Due to delays in the project, India has been forced to go for the GE-404 engines for the initial 113 LCA aircraft and GE-414s for the LCA Mark 2 and the fifth generation planes planned to be produced in India.
Government officials said, subsequently the percentage of the Transfer of Technologies (ToT) is expected to increase further.
With this Transfer of Technology, the parts will be made in the country and GTRE will be receiving all the know-how including that of processes and coatings for the crystal blades etc will be transferred.
Officials said the proposed ToT is unprecedented and GE has not transferred this level of ToT even to their NATO allies.
India has plans of going in for another bigger jet aircraft engine to power its futuristic versions of the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft for which it has been in talks with the French side.
However, the present status of the talks between the two sides on the matter is not clear.
The deal may be announced during PM Narendra Modi's visit to the US in the coming week. (ANI)

 

[jai jaganath]

The real expert here is @jai jaganath . Keep an eye out for him . He comes up with a lot of exposes. And googlies. And exposes in the form of googlies . And vice versa. He's a modest man of many talents.

Comon man leave my obsession
Coming to point I understand from articles few yt videos if I can understand then some research papers available on net
Not much info
u might be knowing everything coz u can argue continuesly

 

[jai jaganath]

And they said after AMCA mk2 engine is done we will have a reprogram which will be to replace engines of Tejas mk2 and amca mk1

What
Can u write in bit simple form
I didn't understand

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

What
Can u write in bit simple form
I didn't understand

After engine for AMCA mk2 is ready then gov will make a program to make engine based on that learning for all Tejas and amca mk1 and replace ge engines basically