ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[Tang]

LCA mark 2 is 4 year old program.
the speed at which HAL and ADA are progressing is commendable.

main difference is the eco system which is running tech development in parallel.

Kind of,

Actually MK1a did not came out of nowhere, original MK2 whose work started in 2009 became MK1a without F414.
New MK2 with canards work started after 2014 only.

Now First flight of MK2 is in 2023, while MK1a is 2022.
MK1a is actually quite a mature design , so very quick production is expected.

Basically, you can say MK1a is actually original MK2.

New MK2 is actually MK3, a completely new design.

BTW all MK1 will be changed to MK1a level too.

All in all - IAF would be operating around 250-300 Desi Tejas variants.

It will be the backbone of IAF (our own F16). Be happy about it.

 

[Harry101]

Kind of,

Actually MK1a did not came out of nowhere, original MK2 whose work started in 2009 became MK1a without F414.
New MK2 with canards work started after 2014 only.

Now First flight of MK2 is in 2023, while MK1a is 2022.
MK1a is actually quite a mature design , so very quick production is expected.

Basically, you can say MK1a is actually original MK2.

New MK2 is actually MK3, a completely new design.

BTW all MK1 will be changed to MK1a level too.

All in all - IAF would be operating around 250-300 Desi Tejas variants.

It will be the backbone of IAF (our own F16). Be happy about it.

Then does it make sense to buy 114 foreign jets in mmrca 2? Maybe get another 2 squadrons of rafale as stop gap measure and divert all funds on increasing mk1a and mwf production capacities and that JV engine. Rafale should be the last foreign fighter jet IAF buys.

 

[Tang]

Then does it make sense to buy 114 foreign jets in mmrca 2? Maybe get another 2 squadrons of rafale as stop gap measure and divert all funds on increasing mk1a and mwf production capacities and that JV engine. Rafale should be the last foreign fighter jet IAF buys.

Actually, ideally, IAF should get 90 more Rafale, with ToT of critical tech, & maintenance, and service at the level of at least Su30MKI.

Rafale will be the tip of our sword. Bleeding edge, which our adversary(China) doesn't have.

 

[nixin]

The first Tejas Mk2 prototype can be fabricated only when the money for the same is released. It cannot be built from legacy disbursements. Why doesn't somebody ask whether that has been done?

 

[MirageBlue]

Kind of,

Actually MK1a did not came out of nowhere, original MK2 whose work started in 2009 became MK1a without F414.
New MK2 with canards work started after 2014 only.

Not correct. the original Mk2 had several changes to the fuselage including a plug to increase the length of the airframe. the Mk1A dropped any such changes that were not related to improved maintainability.

Basically, you can say MK1a is actually original MK2.

No you cannot. Mk1A came from HAL, whereas ADA was the one driving the Mk2 design.

 

[Tang]

Not correct. the original Mk2 had several changes to the fuselage including a plug to increase the length of the airframe. the Mk1A dropped any such changes that were not related to improved maintainability.

Well I have mentioned that in my previous post, but MK1a is 80% of the original MK2

No you cannot. Mk1A came from HAL, whereas ADA was the one driving the Mk2 design.

Yes HAL proposed that and IAF was ok with MK1a.

Again I will reiterate, original MK2 is now MK1a without F414 and 1m plug gag,
This is actually a good move, because we have now made Tejas MK2 in line with F16 and M2000

 

[BON PLAN]

If the need arises, M88-4 would be suitable for Tejas Mk2 & AMCA

Why are we going to RR for JV?
What happened with Safran Kaveri offset deal?

How many JV annuncements aroud a jet engine these last 20 years ? R&R, GE, Safran, others....

 

[Love Charger]

How many JV annuncements aroud a jet engine these last 20 years ? R&R, GE, Safran, others....

Safran will provide engine for tejas as some are saying rolls Royce was is blacklistd from india

 

[MonaLazy]

How many JV annuncements aroud a jet engine these last 20 years ? R&R, GE, Safran, others....

Turkey has access to GE's blueprints for parts of jet engine because of 49% ownership in TEI as explained by @rodeo & has tech transfer from GE for blisks.

Turkish defense industry news updates

-engine: prototypes and the first few squadrons will use F110 engines until national engine is developed. Please tell us more about the indigenous fighter jet engine development efforts in Turkey. What kind of technology has been developed and where the current thrust is.

defenceforumindia.com

These parts are not designed by TEI. TEI manufactures them. But TEI's relationship with GE is different. GE, after designing the engines, gives the blue prints of engine parts to TEI and asking TEI for designing manufacturing processes for these parts. I mind you, these parts are not the hot parts of the engine. TEI designs the processes with the stipulation that TEI will get the 70% of the production volume of these parts. So essentially saying, I will design the process but I'm the one who is producing it. What does GE gets? Cheap but quality and reliable engineering. She doesn't have to pay extra engineering hours for the US engineers. What does TEI gets? TEI gets billions of dollars worth of contracts.

Turkish defense industry news updates

-engine: prototypes and the first few squadrons will use F110 engines until national engine is developed. Please tell us more about the indigenous fighter jet engine development efforts in Turkey. What kind of technology has been developed and where the current thrust is.

defenceforumindia.com

Turkish defense industry news updates

-engine: prototypes and the first few squadrons will use F110 engines until national engine is developed. Please tell us more about the indigenous fighter jet engine development efforts in Turkey. What kind of technology has been developed and where the current thrust is.

defenceforumindia.com

Turkish defense industry news updates

-engine: prototypes and the first few squadrons will use F110 engines until national engine is developed. Please tell us more about the indigenous fighter jet engine development efforts in Turkey. What kind of technology has been developed and where the current thrust is.

defenceforumindia.com

The Turkish access to GE tech sets some precedent- maybe India can work out a similar arrangement? Among GE, Safran & RR- GE seems the best match as they are already the chosen OEM for Tejas MK1/A/2, AMCA & TEDBF with F404 & F414 & will be setting up a manufacturing plant in India for F414. They are the closest to realising the 110kN engine with the enhanced F414. The current lot of F404s is known to merely sip on fuel, have very high MTBO/F- all good characteristics in a power plant. Looking to the future, they are also furthest ahead on the curve for adaptive cycle engines- a quest India will embark 10-15 years from now after the 110kN is realised- a deep tech sharing framework will reap many benefits for India.

As for their stubborn refusal to share any tech so far- a flying K9 Kaveri is our best bet to get them back to the negotiating table.

 

[Blank]

 

[Tshering22]

Then does it make sense to buy 114 foreign jets in mmrca 2? Maybe get another 2 squadrons of rafale as stop gap measure and divert all funds on increasing mk1a and mwf production capacities and that JV engine. Rafale should be the last foreign fighter jet IAF buys.

If we were a very smart system, which I am hoping we are, this is being done to keep everyone's attention diverted from our program. If another MRCA saga starts, it will give time for HAL to mature the MK2 and AMCA tech without op-eds and arms lobby attacking them in meaningful numbers.

This could also just be a misdirection strategy for the international arms lobby.

 

[Tshering22]

Turkey has access to GE's blueprints for parts of jet engine because of 49% ownership in TEI as explained by @rodeo & has tech transfer from GE for blisks.

Turkish defense industry news updates

-engine: prototypes and the first few squadrons will use F110 engines until national engine is developed. Please tell us more about the indigenous fighter jet engine development efforts in Turkey. What kind of technology has been developed and where the current thrust is.

defenceforumindia.com

Turkish defense industry news updates

-engine: prototypes and the first few squadrons will use F110 engines until national engine is developed. Please tell us more about the indigenous fighter jet engine development efforts in Turkey. What kind of technology has been developed and where the current thrust is.

defenceforumindia.com

Turkish defense industry news updates

-engine: prototypes and the first few squadrons will use F110 engines until national engine is developed. Please tell us more about the indigenous fighter jet engine development efforts in Turkey. What kind of technology has been developed and where the current thrust is.

defenceforumindia.com

Turkish defense industry news updates

-engine: prototypes and the first few squadrons will use F110 engines until national engine is developed. Please tell us more about the indigenous fighter jet engine development efforts in Turkey. What kind of technology has been developed and where the current thrust is.

defenceforumindia.com

The Turkish access to GE tech sets some precedent- maybe India can work out a similar arrangement? Among GE, Safran & RR- GE seems the best match as they are already the chosen OEM for Tejas MK1/A/2, AMCA & TEDBF with F404 & F414 & will be setting up a manufacturing plant in India for F414. They are the closest to realising the 110kN engine with the enhanced F414. The current lot of F404s is known to merely sip on fuel, have very high MTBO/F- all good characteristics in a power plant. Looking to the future, they are also furthest ahead on the curve for adaptive cycle engines- a quest India will embark 10-15 years from now after the 110kN is realised- a deep tech sharing framework will reap many benefits for India.

As for their stubborn refusal to share any tech so far- a flying K9 Kaveri is our best bet to get them back to the negotiating table.

The collective West is well aware that the only advantage that they have right now are in 2 things - propulsion and Artificial Intelligence. Particularly for the arms market. What makes you think that they will part with it?

If this was some tinpot dictatorship in the Middle East sucking up to them, they'd agree because they know that even with ToT such a country won't be able to progress. However, tech sharing with us only makes us stronger and a potential competitor.

The only way this can change is if GOI pulls out funds from stupid populist welfare schemes and puts it in tech R&D.

 

[MonaLazy]

What makes you think that they will part with it

Please read the posts linked in the post you quoted.

 

[Blank]

Made-in-India stealth fighter project set to take off in 2022 - Times of India

India is now finally getting set to launch its most ambitious indigenous military aviation project to build a fifth-generation fighter or the advanced medium combat aircraft (AMCA) with advanced stealth features as well as 'supercruise' capabilities. As of now, the development cost of the...

m.timesofindia.com

There are some discussions also underway about whether India should leapfrog from the Tejas Mark-1A directly to the AMCA. “IAF will certainly require additional Tejas jets after the next 83 are delivered, whether they are enhanced variants of Mark-1A or Mark-2. Many technologies proven in their manufacture will be scaled up for AMCA,” said a source

 

[skdking]

The DRDO can be pressured into working overtime on important projects. But there are only a few ways of getting it done. The officers that control the flow of projects from the MoD are the key problem here. Unless the order comes directly from the PMO, they ignore everything.

I have this friend who works for a major strategy company who work with various government organizations including Mazagaon Docks, BRO and even the recent corporatization of OFB. I don't understand much of what he does but he once took the time of explaining how messed up the middle and lower levels are.

These guys are able to maintain a smokescreen between the top and the crowd that the tax is being utilized well. There are only 2 ways to make them work;

1) There is a major event happening where a national announcement will be made;
2) The PM says he wants to inaugurate something by so-and-so date.

Other than that, these guys are just comfortable in their routine and are completely unconcerned about how many troops die on the border. Very thick skinned, bad attitude, greedy for commissions, in touch with arms & specific construction lobbies that actively try to thwart defence projects and aware of the job immunity they have.

I agree 100%.

The existing procurement model needs to be thrown into Bay of Bengal.

Reform by stealth will not work here as the middle bureaucracy knows 1001 ways to scuttle anything that harms their interests.

This is true for Fauji bureaucracy too.

 

[Brood Father]

So IAF wants to scuttle both LCH and MK2 ..This is pathetic . IAF is compromised by foreign dalals..

 

[IndianHawk]

So IAF wants to scuttle both LCH and MK2 ..This is pathetic . IAF is compromised by foreign dalals..

Don't fall for stupid reporting. LCH isn't going anywhere neither is mk2 .

HAL has already build LCH factory at tumukar with 30 lch per year capacity.

Mk2 jigs were tendered quite a while ago and all subsystems are ready for integration as actual aircraft takes shape.

These things are not happening in void . GOI and IAF are fully behind these.

 

[rohit b3]

Don't fall for stupid reporting. LCH isn't going anywhere neither is mk2 .

HAL has already build LCH factory at tumukar with 30 lch per year capacity.

Mk2 jigs were tendered quite a while ago and all subsystems are ready for integration as actual aircraft takes shape.

These things are not happening in void . GOI and IAF are fully behind these.

not going anywhere, but unnecessarily delayed cause funds are prioritized towards phoren maal.

 

[IndianHawk]

not going anywhere, but unnecessarily delayed cause funds are prioritized towards phoren maal.

Funds are always prioritized. Now more and more for desi mall we have 4 destroyers + 7 frigate + 2 ssbn ( all indeginous not counting 4 talwar class). being built in country and orders have just been placed for 83 mk1a.

LCH orders will come soon. Probably after all lsp issues are sorted. Mk2 has gotten funds earlier if I recall information on strategic forums.

 

[Brood Father]

Don't fall for stupid reporting. LCH isn't going anywhere neither is mk2 .

HAL has already build LCH factory at tumukar with 30 lch per year capacity.

Mk2 jigs were tendered quite a while ago and all subsystems are ready for integration as actual aircraft takes shape.

These things are not happening in void . GOI and IAF are fully behind these.

AMCA will get CCA approval by early 2022, well do we have any such news on MK2
Looks like MOD is involved in dalali .

Is hamam mein sab nange hai