ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[BON PLAN]

Our reliance in this regard stems from the lack of choice. Other than the American makers, it would be the British and the French (India dosen't want Russian engines). British policy is influenced by Americans, so why not deal directly with Americans. French didn't seem to have the engine required or did they @BON PLAN @Picard.
Further GE has engines for platforms Tejas Mk1-AMCA Mk1, so it's convenient from commonality and continuity perspective.
If I may..... GE engine was the necessary evil (unreliable ally) that was chosen.

M88 was studied in 3 variants :
M88-2 for 7.5tons of thrust.
M88-3 for 9 tons. Already tested (for UAE, and not only)
M88-4 for 11.5 tons. only on paper so far, but maybe used for the SCAF prototyp because SAFRAN hold the lead for NEFE (New European Fighter Engine)

the -3 or -4 may be usefull for India.

 

[WARREN SS]

1 ) IAF even rejected PAK-FA because of the engine which was in fact in development.

IAF rejected It because of its lack in Advancement of design which not VLO And Funding constraints
And no scope improvement further
India has better option with indigenous development as it has money And Western technological access

I like your confidence in AMCA but given the past experience of Notorious IAF, AMCA is more prone to rejection than Tejas mk2. Why?

My Confidence nothing do with facts on grounds. Past experience only Shows Lethargic and freeloading nature of our DSPSU's And R&D Ecosystem And Politicians And multiple failure to pass Dead line after deadlines.
only Victims in all this game is Pilots who lost there Lives flying 50 years old relics termed as "Flying coffins"

I Mean How IAF bad here To Want Platform Which gives them Edge over adversary in war when there is not Single weight Category platform available indigenously.

2 ) AMCA most likely will be delayed

DRDO already achieved 50 % of its technology by 2025 most which already in advanced stages
rest is Turbofan engines Which out equation as GE414 is already chosen for porotypes and Initial variants
So Every thing is on path

3 ) By 2035, IAF will talk about 6th generation jet ( You know ever fast-evolving threats )

LOL Even Europeans Made window of 6 th gen prototype by 2040-45
2035 is bracket of AMCA mk2 With Indigenous engines And Heavy category

6 ) Technologies for Tejas mk2 are readily available but for AMCA it is into development.

MK2 is also need Wind tunnel testing And Prototype IOC And FOC stage
Tech only different in terms of design
.

7 ) 114 MRFA will become 114 5th/6th generation fighter acquisition programs.

Another Conjecture As there no option for that accept F-35
Which not offered yet

Many Dallas and lobbies will be there to take care of the rest.

As far 123 LCA ordered by IAF till now takes Project worth is 8-9 billion $
So much of not Adding indigenous products

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

After listening to his past and present opinion, One can safely assume that He is not an LM or Boeing dalla. He is an asset to UN armed forces who cry for import, no matter from where and what weapons.
His knowledge about indigenous programs is actually a mirror of the UN Armed forces general's/Chief's opinions.



Still, the requirement for 114 MRFA will be there till eternity.




I like your confidence in AMCA but given the past experience of Notorious IAF, AMCA is more prone to rejection than Tejas mk2. Why?
1 ) IAF even rejected PAK-FA because of the engine which was in fact in development.
2 ) AMCA most likely will be delayed
3 ) By 2035, IAF will talk about 6th generation jet ( You know ever fast-evolving threats )
5 ) Indias budget and GDP will increase so will increase the area of influence IAF might demand Heavy category 5th/6th generation fighter
6 ) Technologies for Tejas mk2 are readily available but for AMCA it is into development.
7 ) 114 MRFA will become 114 5th/6th generation fighter acquisition programs.

Many Dallas and lobbies will be there to take care of the rest.

1. IAF didn't reject Pakfa for want of engines alone. It was a factor but not the major. Major deal-breaker was lack of stealth. And refusal of Russia to share meaningful workload with us. All important technology from Mission computer, Cockpit, radars were Russian to begin with but they wanted Indian money to develop Russian product.
3. 30 years since F22, first 5th gen fighter flew. No other country other than US have a impactful numbers of 5th gen fighters to this day. 6th generation will become common only around 2070 and later. Note it down. Even in 2070, 4th generation fighters would still be flying. They would be the low cost option.
7. No way.

 

[arnabmit]

we all know how factual our fav halwai is...but how do you see his remark that akash sam was obsolete when it was inducted...? naturally pakistanis are enjoying him thanks to pgurus!

Spoiler: Watch at your own risk

https://cloud.degoo.com/share/Dz3Q7lJcPyWfENBmsXNmXg

 

[Abdus Salem killed]

1. IAF didn't reject Pakfa for want of engines alone. It was a factor but not the major. Major deal-breaker was lack of stealth. And refusal of Russia to share meaningful workload with us. All important technology from Mission computer, Cockpit, radars were Russian to begin with but they wanted Indian money to develop Russian product.
3. 30 years since F22, first 5th gen fighter flew. No other country other than US have a impactful numbers of 5th gen fighters to this day. 6th generation will become common only around 2070 and later. Note it down. Even in 2070, 4th generation fighters would still be flying. They would be the low cost option.
7. No way.

2070 time

 

[Steven Rogers]

True it is one aspect where good improvement has been made. It is the foundation for fortress India.
Barak 8, Akash, S-400 is formidable combo. The only thing I don't understand is how different weapon system can operate in an integrated network. If some can shed some light.


He craps out of his mouth many times. Once he said that airforce pilots will have trouble to adapt to Rafale, guess why!! He says quality of pilot not good and moreover unlike western counterparts who have played Playstation during their childhood, the latter have an undeniable advantage in training
Yes he said that.
We all know airforce is the service that attracts the brightest mind, and you have to be among the best to make it to fighter planes. Got the link, confidently phekh ta jara hain

Isko koi bataye ki,not every gora is a fan of play station,and why this regionalism with the X-Box and Nintendo...

 

[HawkisRight]

 

[Kalkioftoday]

Can anyone tell me what was the year the Mk2 program started?

 

[Tang]

Can anyone tell me what was the year the Mk2 program started?

November 2009
But design changed a lot after 2014

Guys, please correct me if I am wrong.

PS:- Lots of factual error in the article.

Long-awaited indigenous light combat aircraft Tejas Mk II targeted by 2022

Sanctioned by the government in 2009, the Mk II will be equipped with state-of-the-art AESA radar with the indigenously developed air-to-air missile Astra, which has a range of 70km. The beyond visual range missile is currently being tested on the IAF’s Su-30 MKI fighters.

www.hindustantimes.com

 

[Kalkioftoday]

November 2009
But design changed a lot after 2014

Guys, please correct me if I am wrong.

PS:- Lots of factual error in the article.

Long-awaited indigenous light combat aircraft Tejas Mk II targeted by 2022

Sanctioned by the government in 2009, the Mk II will be equipped with state-of-the-art AESA radar with the indigenously developed air-to-air missile Astra, which has a range of 70km. The beyond visual range missile is currently being tested on the IAF’s Su-30 MKI fighters.

www.hindustantimes.com

12 years just to make an enlarged Tejas with a extra few design changes and modifications. If we've given the isreali the Mk1 design and the money, the isrealis would've rolled out the Mk2 prototype within a 3/4 year even though they've stop designing fighter jets a long ago. We curse our airforce for not inducting desi maals but we hardly question DRDO's capabilities and it's 'mayavi' timelines. Airforce is still want to buy 114 MRFA even though the Mk2 is right at the corner because unlike us IAF doesn't believe in DRDO's timeline bullshit anymore.

 

[Vamsi]

12 years just to make an enlarged Tejas with a extra few design changes and modifications. If we've given the isreali the Mk1 design and the money, the isrealis would've rolled out the Mk2 prototype within a 3/4 year even though they've stop designing fighter jets a long ago. We curse our airforce for not inducting desi maals but we hardly question DRDO's capabilities and it's 'mayavi' timelines. Airforce is still want to buy 114 MRFA even though the Mk2 is right at the corner because unlike us IAF doesn't believe in DRDO's timeline bullshit anymore.

No buddy, the serious work on Mk-2 as we know it today, started only after 2016-17 when Manohar Parrikar ji showed Mk-1A down the IAF's throat.

 

[Tang]

12 years just to make an enlarged Tejas with a extra few design changes and modifications. If we've given the isreali the Mk1 design and the money, the isrealis would've rolled out the Mk2 prototype within a 3/4 year even though they've stop designing fighter jets a long ago. We curse our airforce for not inducting desi maals but we hardly question DRDO's capabilities and it's 'mayavi' timelines. Airforce is still want to buy 114 MRFA even though the Mk2 is right at the corner because unlike us IAF doesn't believe in DRDO's timeline bullshit.

Actually, the First flight of MK2 was planned in 2014 only, The original 1m plug enlarged MK2
But then things changed, maybe due to IAF, we have decided to make MK2 more potent, in line of F16 Block60 and Mirage 2000.

MK1a is actually the original MK2 without 1-metre plug and F414 engines.

Read this first

Tracking The Tejas: How The Tejas Mk2 Design Became The Medium Weight Fighter | Delhi Defence Review

delhidefencereview.com

 

[Kalkioftoday]

No buddy, the serious work on Mk-2 as we know it today, started only after 2016-17 when Manohar Parrikar ji showed Mk-1A down the IAF's throat.

What a sad state of affair. Before fighting a war with a superpower, i think we just need a cleansing of own.

 

[lcafanboy]

 

[IndianHawk]

12 years just to make an enlarged Tejas with a extra few design changes and modifications. If we've given the isreali the Mk1 design and the money, the isrealis would've rolled out the Mk2 prototype within a 3/4 year even though they've stop designing fighter jets a long ago. We curse our airforce for not inducting desi maals but we hardly question DRDO's capabilities and it's 'mayavi' timelines. Airforce is still want to buy 114 MRFA even though the Mk2 is right at the corner because unlike us IAF doesn't believe in DRDO's timeline bullshit anymore.

IAF rejected design proposed in early 2010-14. They were bitten by gripen bug and only agreed to move forward when mk2 design has exceeded gripen NG parameters. ( At least on paper).

But at least now we have all major subsystems ready even before metal cutting. Aesa / ew suite / irst / maws / obogs / drop tanks / weaponry ( astra / ngram/ pgm etc . All in place already.

 

[Spitfire9]

IAF rejected design proposed in early 2010-14. They were bitten by gripen bug and only agreed to move forward when mk2 design has exceeded gripen NG parameters. ( At least on paper).

But at least now we have all major subsystems ready even before metal cutting. Aesa / ew suite / irst / maws / obogs / drop tanks / weaponry ( astra / ngram/ pgm etc . All in place already.

So why does IAF top brass not show more enthusiasm for it? With Tejas everything was late/very late/appallingly late. Mk2 sounds like it is super low risk for delays in comparison to Mk1.

 

[IndianHawk]

So why does IAF top brass not show more enthusiasm for it? With Tejas everything was late/very late/appallingly late. Mk2 sounds like it is super low risk for delays in comparison to Mk1.

IAF is supporting mk2 hence the metal cutting is moving forward. IAF team is involved. Delays were before finalizing the design .

Growing chinese enmity forced IAF to move from lighter earlier Design to more potent MWF design which can swing between two fronts in war time and penetrate deep into chinese airspace along with Rafale.

Now as everything is in place delays should be minimal / non existent barring whatever time COVID has wasted.

 

[Srinivas_K]

Actually, the First flight of MK2 was planned in 2014 only, The original 1m plug enlarged MK2
But then things changed, maybe due to IAF, we have decided to make MK2 more potent, in line of F16 Block60 and Mirage 2000.

MK1a is actually the original MK2 without 1-metre plug and F414 engines.

Read this first

Tracking The Tejas: How The Tejas Mk2 Design Became The Medium Weight Fighter | Delhi Defence Review

delhidefencereview.com

LCA mark 2 is 4 year old program.
the speed at which HAL and ADA are progressing is commendable.

main difference is the eco system which is running tech development in parallel.

 

[Tshering22]

12 years just to make an enlarged Tejas with a extra few design changes and modifications. If we've given the isreali the Mk1 design and the money, the isrealis would've rolled out the Mk2 prototype within a 3/4 year even though they've stop designing fighter jets a long ago. We curse our airforce for not inducting desi maals but we hardly question DRDO's capabilities and it's 'mayavi' timelines. Airforce is still want to buy 114 MRFA even though the Mk2 is right at the corner because unlike us IAF doesn't believe in DRDO's timeline bullshit anymore.

The DRDO can be pressured into working overtime on important projects. But there are only a few ways of getting it done. The officers that control the flow of projects from the MoD are the key problem here. Unless the order comes directly from the PMO, they ignore everything.

I have this friend who works for a major strategy company who work with various government organizations including Mazagaon Docks, BRO and even the recent corporatization of OFB. I don't understand much of what he does but he once took the time of explaining how messed up the middle and lower levels are.

These guys are able to maintain a smokescreen between the top and the crowd that the tax is being utilized well. There are only 2 ways to make them work;

1) There is a major event happening where a national announcement will be made;
2) The PM says he wants to inaugurate something by so-and-so date.

Other than that, these guys are just comfortable in their routine and are completely unconcerned about how many troops die on the border. Very thick skinned, bad attitude, greedy for commissions, in touch with arms & specific construction lobbies that actively try to thwart defence projects and aware of the job immunity they have.

 

[Tang]

M88 was studied in 3 variants :
M88-2 for 7.5tons of thrust.
M88-3 for 9 tons. Already tested (for UAE, and not only)
M88-4 for 11.5 tons. only on paper so far, but maybe used for the SCAF prototyp because SAFRAN hold the lead for NEFE (New European Fighter Engine)

the -3 or -4 may be usefull for India.

If the need arises, M88-4 would be suitable for Tejas Mk2 & AMCA

Why are we going to RR for JV?
What happened with Safran Kaveri offset deal?