ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[Trololo]

That's the classic mulk nazuk daur se guzar raha hai argument. I don't buy it. Once we own a 5th gen engine by 2030, we can do advent by 2040. Easy. Possibly under the same collab with RR. For now we must ask them for what they already have, not what they hope to have 10-15 years from now. However, if RR can give us a tested, certified & mass produced 6th gen engine by 2028 then I'm all for it. But that ain't happening because the RR engine is in its 6th year/phase 2 of development. There is a phase 3 before the first full scale demonstrator is even built. God knows when it will enter production.



Come 2030 would you rather have a matured 5th gen jet engine or an in the works 6th gen? Best in class, future requirements are all euphemisms for scope creep. Project delay. Blame DRDO/GTRE. Will IAF be the kid in the candy shop demanding everything available or will they be smarter? I think by being silent on ADVENT or E2SG or any other alphabet soup IAF is passing up on the fancy. What they want, the 110kNs is being made plainly evident.

Even a 414 EPE level tech that we can mass produce by 2030 will put us among the top dogs in Asia, certainly far ahead of Pakistan and China. It gives us strategic independence for mk 2, amca and tedbf. That alone is worth its weight in gold. Plus forex savings from not having to pay GE.

Finally engine dev is a continuous process. Please see M88 TCO pack followed by THEO program.

Have to agree with you on this point. Its important that the engine for the AMCA Mk2 reaches maturity by 2030 even with 4th gen EPE tech. An actual 5th gen VC engine with very high electrical power can come in the late 2030s as an engine upgrade.

 

[SavageKing456]

Aight,so i think both are right w.r.t to engine programs,but if we currently go for adaptive cycle engine with RR,it would be a big gamble considering it needs a hell lot of time to certify.
AMCA mk2 would require adaptive cycle engine by 2035 to get more efficient power and to be a real 6th gen fighter and for that case too ACE is needed.
Honestly it depends on timelines,it would take enormous time for India to rollout 6th gen fighters which depends on ACE,for the time being we should master the basic level of F414 class engine for rest of our programs and switch for ACE in later part of 2030s

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Aight,so i think both are right w.r.t to engine programs,but if we currently go for adaptive cycle engine with RR,it would be a big gamble considering it needs a hell lot of time to certify.
AMCA mk2 would require adaptive cycle engine by 2035 to get more efficient power and to be a real 6th gen fighter and for that case too ACE is needed.
Honestly it depends on timelines,it would take enormous time for India to rollout 6th gen fighters which depends on ACE,for the time being we should master the basic level of F414 class engine for rest of our programs and switch for ACE in later part of 2030s

Yes, it is the future. Like VVTEC engines came in automobiles and Ram air bypass technology came in solid fuel Ramjet planes, adaptive cycle engine optimize itself for given RPM to provide maximum fuel efficiency as if it is designed to operate at that Particular RPM.

 

[IndianHawk]

Aight,so i think both are right w.r.t to engine programs,but if we currently go for adaptive cycle engine with RR,it would be a big gamble considering it needs a hell lot of time to certify.
AMCA mk2 would require adaptive cycle engine by 2035 to get more efficient power and to be a real 6th gen fighter and for that case too ACE is needed.
Honestly it depends on timelines,it would take enormous time for India to rollout 6th gen fighters which depends on ACE,for the time being we should master the basic level of F414 class engine for rest of our programs and switch for ACE in later part of 2030s

AMCA mk2 will have normal 110kn engine on par with gef414 epe. At most 120kn if that becomes feasible.

In the 2030s we will start working on proper 6th gen plane . Just like between 2020-2030 our programs are MWF , tedbf and aura and amca similarly in 2030-40 we will have multiple programs amca mk2 , tedbf mk2 with stealth probably , next gen drone and 6th gen with variable engine and modular bays.

So a variable engine will need to be developed by 2040 something.

It could then theoretically go into amca when amca reached mid life upgrade stage.

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

I don't know what you guys discuss but I kind of feel elated , because i bet that this kind of technical discussion never occurs on peedeef. instead they try to find why they have tiger like instinct , because only a tiger can run a mafia gang etc.
Here it's a different thing , biradaars .

 

[Lonewolf]

I don't know what you guys discuss but I kind of feel elated , because i bet that this kind of technical discussion never occurs instead they try to find why they have tiger like instinct , because only a tiger can run a mafia gang etc.
Here it's a different thing , biradaars .

Those porks .

Leave them .


So my take is most probably we may go for a vce engine for mk2 , but at lower turbine temperature , look at turbine temperature of f 35 ,it was difficult for them as they were trying to build a fucking engine with 2100+k bearing capacity and that's no joke , @Okabe Rintarou as once discussed , it requires ceramic blades ,in turbine and that's the toughest not to crack ,if you go for it , you need lot kf research at disposal ,which we don't have now , that's why it took usa so long , if we go for lower temperature as our thrust requirements are lower too ,we may do a vce in time

 

[SavageKing456]

AMCA mk2 will have normal 110kn engine on par with gef414 epe. At most 120kn if that becomes feasible.

In the 2030s we will start working on proper 6th gen plane . Just like between 2020-2030 our programs are MWF , tedbf and aura and amca similarly in 2030-40 we will have multiple programs amca mk2 , tedbf mk2 with stealth probably , next gen drone and 6th gen with variable engine and modular bays.

So a variable engine will need to be developed by 2040 something.

It could then theoretically go into amca when amca reached mid life upgrade stage.

Wait,am i missing something
Amca mk2 would be 6th or 5.5 gen ?
110kn would be underpowered AFAIK if 6th gen

 

[UnderFingy]

Wait,am i missing something
Amca mk2 would be 6th or 5.5 gen ?
110kn would be underpowered AFAIK if 6th gen

Wasn't it supposed to be "5.5 gen with some features of 6th gen"?

 

[MonaLazy]

4th gen EPE tech. An actual 5th gen VC engine with very high electrical power can come in the late 2030s as an engine upgrade.

Just to set the record straight.. I was calling EPE 5th gen because that level of tech is being targeted for AMCA which is a 5th gen aircraft. Even Korean stealth, KF-21 Boramae will fly with the same powerplant (Non-EPE for now).

XA100/XA101/Tempest engine are 6th gen because they are targetted for 6th gen fighters NGAD/Tempest where electricity generation, thermal management & adaptive cycle are among the newer requirements unique to this gen.

 

[MonaLazy]

AMCA mk2 will have normal 110kn engine on par with gef414 epe. At most 120kn if that becomes feasible.

In the 2030s we will start working on proper 6th gen plane . Just like between 2020-2030 our programs are MWF , tedbf and aura and amca similarly in 2030-40 we will have multiple programs amca mk2 , tedbf mk2 with stealth probably , next gen drone and 6th gen with variable engine and modular bays.

So a variable engine will need to be developed by 2040 something.

It could then theoretically go into amca when amca reached mid life upgrade stage.

Now that seems totally do-able, rather than going for the most complicated engine like Kaveri for us in the 80s and then ending up with design too complex in 2021 to do anything about- Kaveri UCAV engine is just consolation prize. The starting point of these Birbal ki khichdi engines is impossible ASQRs from the forces. Here's hoping they stay sane this time around.

 

[IndianHawk]

Now that seems totally do-able, rather than going for the most complicated engine like Kaveri for us in the 80s and then ending up with design too complex in 2021 to do anything about- Kaveri UCAV engine is just consolation prize. The starting point of these Birbal ki khichdi engines is impossible ASQRs from the forces. Here's hoping they stay sane this time around.

There is tremendous progress in engine technology in india in last few years. Lot's of things indiginesd. Lots more coming.

Private sector on board this time and government ready to let's the fund's flow. We will get there .

 

[no smoking]

US is not reliable in case of a conflict in their backyard ,not because they will back down but will be having their own problem and for that japanese need theur iwn industry and export weapons to friendly nations , so that they will a immediate back up in neighborhood

You don't get the point.

Japan is not an independent country, it is still an occupied country in fact. Her economic policy, military development policy and diplomatic policy are all heavily influenced by US (they can only dance within the line drawn by Americans).
Who are their friendly nations? Well, that is decided by Washington not Tokyo.

 

[IndianHawk]

You don't get the point.

Japan is not an independent country, it is still an occupied country in fact. Her economic policy, military development policy and diplomatic policy are all heavily influenced by US (they can only dance within the line drawn by Americans).
Who are their friendly nations? Well, that is decided by Washington not Tokyo.

Still Better than china who are slaves to CCP which killed millions of chinese and denies any freedom to chinese. Lol.

 

[Lonewolf]

Still Better than china who are slaves to CCP which killed millions of chinese and denies any freedom to chinese. Lol.

Thread is being derailed please refrain

 

[flanker99]

She'll be really sexy

 

[Ar.gaurav28]

That's the classic mulk nazuk daur se guzar raha hai argument. I don't buy it. Once we own a 5th gen engine by 2030, we can do advent by 2040.

Exact thing I would suggest just to add another important point which hasn’t been discussed is we need to absorb tech of an engine that we have mass produced before jumping onto a state of the art tech, can’t straight away go from no reliable engine produced to such a tech marvel! It’s like asking for trouble something will definitely go wrong...need the same approach as mk2 is a stepping stone for AMCA!!
But most importantly first we need all the sort of test beds in our country...

And we here don't taking in account that kaveri has inherent Design issues ,not mettalurgy now , earluer it was , now it's more like almost solved .

We also forget that kaveri is a engine for lower thrust not in class of ej 200

I agree with inherent design flaws but,
if it just inherent design issues why was there a talk about putting m88 core in it??
we still have metallurgy issues just compare it’s core temp to m88(75kn thrust)!!
Ej200 produces less thrust than f414 but no1 can deny it is a way much more refined engine, better in every aspect be it t/w ratio, size or fuel consumption!!
Truth might hurt but kaveri is a dead end!!
k6 is what we can make the most of that design...

So like F404 evolved to F414 to EPE, where is the progression for Kaveri?

well that’s what their plan was a series of k5 to k11or12, would have been better if they would have started with jaguar engines for which they were floating tenders all around the globe!
after it’s commercial success could have invested further in that k series
only hope now is jv or private sector!

Wait,am i missing something
Amca mk2 would be 6th or 5.5 gen ?
110kn would be underpowered AFAIK if 6th gen

On that front I hope the engine we get in jv with RR is a step up from ej200 & a stepping stone for their tempest engines, with a goal in mind to get it ready till 2028-29!
&
About 110kn+ hoping it to be revised to 120-140kn!(very much achievable with RR)

 

[FGFAPilot1]

Is it just me or does anyone also think that Tejas MK2 seems pretty ugly? I mean I'd take function over form every time but Mk2 is just plain ugly.

 

[flanker99]

Is it just me or does anyone also think that Tejas MK2 seems pretty ugly? I mean I'd take function over form every time but Mk2 is just plain ugly.

Just you

 

[Vaibhavseafarer]

Is it just me or does anyone also think that Tejas MK2 seems pretty ugly? I mean I'd take function over form every time but Mk2 is just plain ugly.

It's just you alone.

 

[SUPERPOWER]

She'll be really sexy

Pehle baane do....nazar mat lagao..