ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[Bleh]

GE will require an order guarantee to produce it.

Neva gonna happen. We're working with Safran & RR.. What's the point bringing EPE up every few days then?!.

 

[Trololo]

Any idea if the planned 110KN engine for the AMCA will be a VCE or not?

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Add another 5 years to Full-scale production(1 squadron=18 jets/year) and you get around 2027-2028 timeline.

The plan is to start production by 2025. As of now there are only 2 prototypes planned. But there is a possibility we might end up with 3 prototype for parallel testing. There will be no LSP. Straight production. That's what ADA has promised.
While for Amca we might end up with TD, prototype and LSP. Same for TEDBF. Induction should be in 2026. Looks competitive with new engine.

 

[Bleh]

Thimck Tejas pretty much done.

The plan is to start production by 2025. As of now there are only 2 prototypes planned. But there is a possibility we might end up with 3 prototype for parallel testing. There will be no LSP. Straight production. That's what ADA has promised.
While for Amca we might end up with TD, prototype and LSP. Same for TEDBF. Induction should be in 2026. Looks competitive with new engine.

3 prototypes & 2026 as per plan (So about 2027-28 practically).

 

[onlinpunit]

This is not a salted peanuts making factory we are talking about. To develop an indigenous defence industry will requires buy in from the consumer as well. Accountability will of course need to be in place which I believe has been set in the contract for Tejas MK1A.

Before liberation and pvtization of indian economy we used to hear the same sob stories from govt white elephants. But after a few hiccups every thing went smoothly. HAL along with Air India and BSNL is just the last of the govt white elephants.

 

[warriorextreme]

Before liberation and pvtization of indian economy we used to hear the same sob stories from govt white elephants. But after a few hiccups every thing went smoothly. HAL along with Air India and BSNL is just the last of the govt white elephants.

I am not referring to just HAL here. I am referring to indigenous industry which involves public and private. HAL itself has lot of private partners now.

 

[Trololo]

HAL has seen a good turnaround. Govt should continue to work to bring it upto speed with global giants. But I feel that when 2-3 top class pvt players come up in India HAL should be divested and sold off.

 

[MonaLazy]

2-3 top class pvt players come up in India HAL should be divested and sold off.

It's perform or perish, not perform and perish! If they are doing well encourage them with more funds and projects. The Indian armed forces is a particularly naggy customer (look at LCH & LUH saga for IA & IAF, Dhruv for IN). Don't think their tantrums can be justified on any private company balance sheet.

 

[Trololo]

It's perform or perish, not perform and perish! If they are doing well encourage them with more funds and projects. The Indian armed forces is a particularly naggy customer. Don't think their tantrums can be justified on any private company balance sheet.

Its difficult to bring in accountability in a PSU from end to end. A pvt entity will perform better. But for the time being HAL is serving our purpose.

 

[MonaLazy]

Its difficult to bring in accountability in a PSU from end to end. A pvt entity will perform better.

All depends on leadership. With a private entity the govt's leverage is financial rewards and penalties. With PSUs they have fine grained control. Can stop career progress of non performers, relegate them to being paper pushers. The carrot being you won't lose your job, but the govt has enough sticks if it chooses to exercise them.

Here's a good example: https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/top...cked-as-drdo-chief-without-explanation-727011

Or how the army was forced to muzzle its guns after the Shopian fake encounter despite AFSPA.

Finally, which private sector company will spend it's own funds to ready frames for future production order in anticipation when the order itself is nowhere in sight.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Neva gonna happen. We're working with Safran & RR.. What's the point bringing EPE up every few days then?!.

1. There is no point in discussing anything here ... if that's the case

2. When people talk then missed or available options will be discussed

3. We aren't working with anyone don't spread rumours in reality only negotiation are going on as of now and that has nothing do with EPE.

 

[Flying Dagger]

He is talking abt 18 unit per year production which ain't happening so early in the run .

The plan is to start production by 2025. As of now there are only 2 prototypes planned. But there is a possibility we might end up with 3 prototype for parallel testing. There will be no LSP. Straight production. That's what ADA has promised.
While for Amca we might end up with TD, prototype and LSP. Same for TEDBF. Induction should be in 2026. Looks competitive with new engine.

 

[Trololo]

All depends on leadership. With a private entity the govt's leverage is financial rewards and penalties. With PSUs they have fine grained control. Can stop career progress of non performers, relegate them to being paper pushers. The carrot being you won't lose your job, but the govt has enough sticks if it chooses to exercise them.

Here's a good example: https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/top...cked-as-drdo-chief-without-explanation-727011

Or how the army was forced to muzzle its guns after the Shopian fake encounter despite AFSPA.

Finally, which private sector company will spend it's own funds to ready frames for future production order in anticipation when the order itself is nowhere in sight.

In a PSU you cannot hire or fire as per business requirements/state of the company. Being in a cushy position with little risk of getting fired is what stalls further development. Stopping career progression does not impact salary or pension at current position unless gross violation of terms of service is committed.
Any pvt sector employee knows that unless they improve their skills and abilities and show results they stand to lose their jobs. This tacit fear keeps them on their toes. Similarly the pvt companies know that unless they innovate and compete they won't stand in business. This competition is what brings out better products. Currently, due to PSU monopoly, this does not happen in aerospace sector in India yet.
Finally, wrt orders, its purely a function of defence budget and military mindset. Orders aren't placed because nobody wants to be at the receiving end of a theoretically bad product. Similarly budgets are tight to place orders without the product getting proved on multiple orders. I believe that the present political dispensation can alleviate this problem by pushing the military. Case in point was Mk1A or else the LCA program would have died by now. Similarly as our economy rises defence budget will go up. And hence product making PSUs need to go. That includes HAL. But not at this stage though.

 

[Trololo]

I wonder how the LCA Mk2 will do in potential foreign sales......we have good prospects if positioned right.

 

[Ar.gaurav28]

GE F414 engine should have been picked in 2000s itself with epe upgrade but we are still negotiating.

The only problem is be it any Indian govt they don’t trust USA thus they wouldn’t invest in R&D for epe, they will feel themselves comfortable with France or UK!
See how scared(CATSA) they are in a simple purchase of f414 for mk2!

They have been over projecting themselves and their capability making false promises for promotion etc.. despite knowing they can't fulfill them.

They learnt that from their old masters #congress they always thought for themselves as a political gimmick rather than cohesive goal oriented organisation!
I was the happiest when I got to know HAL will only be assembling majority of the components in all the platform from now on sooner later thats all be left of HAL!

What EPE? Is India going to fund development of a foreign OEM's engine for a couple of hundred AMCA?

If that foreign OEM would have been from France or UK then they would have done it...but it’s AMERICAAAAAAA

The industries which run without accountability and have captive customers runs on crutches..!

Blame your govt for it!
They could have carved a division out of ISRO very easily and should have pitted them against each other to provide high quality at low price & in time!
like LM & Boeing, Sukhoi & MIG, etc...
But they didn’t your government made them incompetent just like MTNL/BSNL

I wonder how the LCA Mk2 will do in potential foreign sales......we have good prospects if positioned right.

On realistic front don’t expect big no.from any country & it depends even more on the price tag associated with it! Gripen E is the biggest competitor and to secure contract they will have to keep it significantly low!

 

[Trololo]

The only problem is be it any Indian govt they don’t trust USA thus they wouldn’t invest in R&D for epe, they will feel themselves comfortable with France or UK!
See how scared(CATSA) they are in a simple purchase of f414 for mk2!

They learnt that from their old masters #congress they always thought for themselves as a political gimmick rather than cohesive goal oriented organisation!
I was the happiest when I got to know HAL will only be assembling majority of the components in all the platform from now on sooner later thats all be left of HAL!

If that foreign OEM would have been from France or UK then they would have done it...but it’s AMERICAAAAAAA

Blame your govt for it!
They could have carved a division out of ISRO very easily and should have pitted them against each other to provide high quality at low price & in time!
like LM & Boeing, Sukhoi & MIG, etc...
But they didn’t your government made them incompetent just like MTNL/BSNL

On realistic front don’t expect big no.from any country & it depends even more on the price tag associated with it! Gripen E is the biggest competitor and to secure contract they will have to keep it significantly low!

LCA Mk2 has many unique advantages over GripenE, with the most important one being single source procurement of almost all parts of the aircraft except the engines. This will change in the future. Same goes for weapons as well. + the ability to train with some of the best in the business in the form of the IAF. I think if we pitch well we can make a very compelling case.

 

[onlinpunit]

LCA Mk2 has many unique advantages over GripenE, with the most important one being single source procurement of almost all parts of the aircraft except the engines. This will change in the future. Same goes for weapons as well. + the ability to train with some of the best in the business in the form of the IAF. I think if we pitch well we can make a very compelling case.

We simply love comparing imaginary ( under development if it offends any one ) planes with the real ones !

 

[Lonewolf]

We simply love comparing imaginary ( under development if it offends any one ) planes with the real ones !

So if you don't like ignore that part .

 

[onlinpunit]

So if you don't like ignore that part .

U can do the same !

 

[Lonewolf]

U can do the same !

I compare based on timeline and projected specs , with possibility of integration in forces .