ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[HariPrasad-1]

View attachment 87852

Look at Canopy and see how much smoothing has gone into the design to make it more aerodynamic. I would always like a lot of work to be done on aerodynamics as it exploits the maximum potential a fighter can offer. This is the reason why Gripen is best amongst all fighter of its category so far doing maximum from an engine can offer.

 

[MirageBlue]

Here's a bit of a pick-me-up for y'all Nibbiars after, you know...

View attachment 87758

I can't believe there are guys out there that don't think that this close coupled canard Tejas Mk2 is simply stunning!

 

[Tang]

No tejas mk2 is gripan equivalent while tedbf is rafale/eurofighter /super hornet equivalent

MK2 is Rafale equivalent

 

[MirageBlue]

View attachment 87738
You can google it bro!!
first reason for not using a 110kn engine right now is because there isn’t any available in market right now!
secondly whenever testing a new platform you will do it on a proven engine like ge414 or ej200

even in the basic maths
MWF weight = 7500kg
fuel. = 3400kg
total. = 10900kg
thus you need 110Kn+ to have that thrust to weight ratio above atleast 1.
otherwise you wouldn’t be able to use the true potential of platform.

There is hardly any fighter out there with T/W ratio of 1 with full internal fuel.

T/W ratio is generally important for missions where you expect to turn and burn. And for such missions, the fighter will carry air to air missiles, drop tanks and internal fuel. As fuel burns up, the fighter gets lighter and the T/W ratio improves. By the time you get to the CAP station or the area where you expect to encounter the bogey, your T/W ratio will be significantly better.

The Mirage-2000 with nearly identical weights is also powered by a 98 kN engine. As is the Gripen E. An engine that produces 10-12 kN more would be welcome but it's Specific Fuel Consumption must also be the same or better to improve range and endurance.

 

[MirageBlue]

MK2 is Rafale equivalent

Not in terms of weight, range and payload class. It is in the Mirage-2000 class weight/range/payload wise, but will have avionics that are nearly as good as and in some cases better than, the Rafale.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

MK2 is Rafale equivalent

No it is not. Though it can perform many roles of Su 30 MKI and Rafale.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

What people do not discuss here is that a potent aircraft like MWF can save a big amount in mission. If you have an aircraft with AESA and Ultra long long range missile and over 6 tons of payload, you can use it for many missions which it can perform in less than half of the cost of what Rafale can do and in 1/3rd of the cost of what MKI can perform. Grippen's operating cost per hour is less than half of F 16. So desi MWF will have just 1/3rd operating cost of MKIs and 1/2 of Rafale. Their can not be any better news than this.

 

[MirageBlue]

Hindsight 20/20.. Safran fucked Rafale with undepowerd engines. They have a bad rep for that in France. Their high power engines are huge like M-53-2 & GE is far ahead of them on basis od weight-size efficiency.

Safran did offer a higher powered M-88 version. However, the M-88 thrust in afterburner wasn't the focus of the improvements that the French AF wanted. They've focused primarily on getting higher Time Between Overhauls (TBOs) instead to reduce Total Cost of Ownership (TCO)

Rafale flies with uprated M88 engine

Source: Snecma; dated May 4, web-posted May 5, 2010)

COURCOURONNES, France --- The first test flight of a Rafale fighter powered by the Snecma (Safran group) M88-4E engine (formerly designated the “TCO Pack”, for total cost of ownership) took place on March 22 at the Istres air base in southern France.

Lasting 1 hour and 30 minutes, the flight was a total success, and was used to expand the flight envelope. The complete test campaign for the M88-4E engine comprises some 70 flights in 2010, with different engine configurations. Ten test flights have been carried out to date.

“We are satisfied with the successful initial flights of the M88-4E, the third major engine upgrade, reflecting our continuing focus on research & development. The latest evolution of the engine enables us to better meet the expectations of our customer, by helping decrease the Rafale’s maintenance costs,” said Didier Desnoyer, Snecma’s Vice President Military Engines.

The development of the M88-4E is proceeding very satisfactorily. The first ground test of the engine was performed in September 2009. Development engines are now undergoing ground performance and endurance tests, and a series of altitude chamber tests was completed in late February. Qualification and delivery of the first production-standard M88-4E is now slated for the end of 2011.

In January 2008, French defense procurement agency DGA awarded Snecma the “TCO Pack” contract for the M88-2 engine. The aim of this contract was to extend the service life and time between inspections for several parts of the engine. Modifications mainly concern the high-pressure compressor and turbine.
..

 

[HariPrasad-1]

There is hardly any fighter out there with T/W ratio of 1 with full internal fuel.

T/W ratio is generally important for missions where you expect to turn and burn. And for such missions, the fighter will carry air to air missiles, drop tanks and internal fuel. As fuel burns up, the fighter gets lighter and the T/W ratio improves. By the time you get to the CAP station or the area where you expect to encounter the bogey, your T/W ratio will be significantly better.

The Mirage-2000 with nearly identical weights is also powered by a 98 kN engine. As is the Gripen E. An engine that produces 10-12 kN more would be welcome but it's Specific Fuel Consumption must also be the same or better to improve range and endurance.

GE 414 EPE has same fuel consumption as GE 414 with about 10% higher dry and after burner thrust.

 

[Bleh]

Safran did offer a higher powered M-88 version. However, the M-88 thrust in afterburner wasn't the focus of the improvements that the French AF wanted. They've focused primarily on getting higher Time Between Overhauls (TBOs) instead to reduce Total Cost of Ownership (TCO)

Rafale flies with uprated M88 engine

Still non-existent in 2021?.. Ok, that tells us all we need to know.

GE 414 EPE has same fuel consumption as GE 414 with about 10% higher dry and after burner thrust.

Suck it physics.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Not in terms of weight, range and payload class. It is in the Mirage-2000 class weight/range/payload wise, but will have avionics that are nearly as good as and in some cases better than, the Rafale.

Nothing can match active cancelation system and EW Spectra of Rafale at present.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Still non-existent in 2021?.. Ok, that tells us all we need to know.



Suck it physics.

Ignorance is a bliss. You can bluff anything without any knowledge. Any modern derivative always deliver higher power with same or less fuel consumption. This is common across car engines to plane engines. Nay modern engines generate much higher power from same size of older engines. This is very common.

By the way, this is from GE's website. Though it doesn't show fuel consumption, it says that there is an improvement in power by 18%. I am sure that physics does not suck in GE's pamphlet.

F414 Engine | GE Aerospace

F414Engine

www.geaviation.com

 

[Ar.gaurav28]

There is hardly any fighter out there with T/W ratio of 1 with full internal fuel.

f15,f16,f22,mig29-35,su27-35,su57,euro fighter even rafale almost 1.
are they joke to you!

 

[MirageBlue]

If Rafale is compromised by underpowered engines why did India order 36 of them?

hi Spitfire,

It is not compromised by underpowered engines. It was tested out at Leh as part of the MRCA contest and no issues were reported due to thrust. There was talk about UAE being interested in Rafales with higher thrust M88 engines, but that didn't go anywhere and no other customer has really complained about lack of thrust.

 

[MirageBlue]

f15,f16,f22,mig29-35,su27-35,su57,euro fighter even rafale almost 1.
are they joke to you!

So please post the figures..

Empty weight
Full internal fuel weight
Weight with air to air weapons
A/B thrust

 

[Bleh]

Though it doesn't show fuel consumption, it says that there is an improvement in power by 18%.

Then why did your say "EPE has same fuel consumption as GE 414 with about 10% higher dry and after burner thrust"..?

And modern engines are drastically different in design, that's why they are more fuel-efficient. Because they are better in technology not just any upgrade... Mere ko bol rha hai ignorance is bliss.

 

[Ar.gaurav28]

So please post the figures..

Empty weight
Full internal fuel weight
Weight with air to air weapons
A/B thrust

You could have googled it yourself...its very easy!

some I have mentioned if i left some I hope you can google it!

 

[MirageBlue]

You could have googled it yourself...its very easy!
View attachment 87921
some I have mentioned if i left some I hope you can google it!

Thanks for posting this.

And what this table clearly shows is that except for some of the twin engine fighters (F-15, MiG-29, F-22), none of the single engine fighters have T/W ratio of 1.

Not the F-16 Block 50/60/70, Mirage-2000, F-35A/B/C, none of them.

J-10 I wouldn't even fully consider because it's empty weight figures are not manufacturer published and can be are mostly made available by fanboys who want it to seem better than it is. And even then, J-10 is only marginally better than Tejas Mk1.

So, even if the Tejas Mk2 MWF doesn't have 110 kN of AB thrust, it will not be an issue in most of the missions it will need to fulfill.

 

[Ar.gaurav28]

Thanks for posting this.

And what this table clearly shows is that except for some of the twin engine fighters (F-15, MiG-29, F-22), none of the single engine fighters have T/W ratio of 1.

Not the F-16 Block 50/60/70, Mirage-2000, F-35A/B/C, none of them.

J-10 I wouldn't even fully consider because it's empty weight figures are not manufacturer published and can be are mostly made available by fanboys who want it to seem better than it is. And even then, J-10 is only marginally better than Tejas Mk1.

So, even if the Tejas Mk2 MWF doesn't have 110 kN of AB thrust, it will not be an issue in most of the missions it will need to fulfill.

For Christ sake google f16 specs and check about the nose cone at the inlet of mirage 2000.
cant serve everything to you on a platter

 

[Neeraj Mathur]

Will Mk2 have Sidebays?

nope
i remember someone asking HVT about this, he replied by saying that there is just no space left. he said its a 25 ton Ac smaller than F22 and bigger than f35 in dimensions so there is just no space.