ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[Bleh]

Here's a bit of a pick-me-up for y'all Nibbiars after, you know...

 

[Ar.gaurav28]

Only fly in the ointment with that plan is the LCA is not designed for EJ200. Last time there was such an engine change from GTRE GTX-35VS to GE F404-IN20- there were changes to LCA wing roots for air flow among others, and indeed the whole intake became sub optimal- not to mention it delayed the program by 5 full years.

So if Buddhan pulls the plug on GE engines for India at this late stage of production- we are cucked. LCA Mk1, Mk1A, MWF, AMCA, TEDBF everything.

But they won't- not when big money is flowing from India to America. Recently they have notified of 6 additional P8's for India (besides the earlier deal for predators)- expect military sales to be brisk under the current regime in US. India is a different league (bulwark against China) from Turkey if that removal from F-35 program has you worried.

we already have 100 engines of f414 in our bag plus if you do know rafale was also tested on ge404 then they easily replaced it with m88 that was the reason Safran is ready to put it’s core in kaveri and according to sources can produce upto 105kn thrust.
issue there is just with IP rights.

so even if that bhuddan go crazy as he did as putting embargo in giving India raw material for meds/vaccines.

safran kaveri dervatives for tejas ,mk1a,mk2
DRDO & Rolls-Royce engine for AMCA & TEDBF.
so no1 can F us.

I actually feel that it would be a good thing if he does go crazy!
a blessing in disguise...with sanctions all our efforts will on developing the required engines rather than just buying off the shelf stuff!
&
this is why they won‘t put sanctions coz they want India dependent on them for defence weapons.

 

[Bleh]

Another bonus, in celebration of Mamtaz Begum losing her constituency...

 

[MonaLazy]

we already have 100 engines of f414 in our bag

No we don't! Please read some earlier research I did here & here. Happy reading!

m88 that was the reason Safran is ready to put it’s core in kaveri and according to sources can produce upto 105kn thrust.

Again if you did some reading on your own I wouldn't have to school you. But here is your answer. The M88-4 you keep tom-toming is a paper engine- this comes from the resident French expert on all things military. It is ~90kN, not a 110kN so even on paper specs it does not match what we need. For SCAF they are going for an all new engine unrelated to M88 (other than building on tech base of an earlier gen engine in the broadest sense of the word).

rafale was also tested on ge404 then they easily replaced it with m88

Not so sure about the easy part. Can you put some time lines around it. How much time to make the transition and what changes were made to the aircraft. I cannot believe it was a drop fit- it never is. An aircraft is designed around the engine(s).

so even if that bhuddan go crazy

Going crazy for a senile 80 yo is not out of the ordinary- don't you think. He is old and it is perfectly fine if he trips going up the air ladder too fast. But do remember despite the US pharma lobby he was quickly shown the light and came around to doing the right thing. Wheels within wheels within wheels. Indian lobby is fairly effective in the US.

safran kaveri dervatives for tejas ,mk1a,mk2
DRDO & Rolls-Royce engine for AMCA & TEDBF.
so no1 can F us.

You may recall how our scientists working on Tejas CLAWs were booted from LM's labs the day we tested the nuke bombs. We did not even have access to our own work on their computers (that it got us going is a story of resilience for another day). The west can be nasty when they want to be.

Engine tech is in the hands of 4-5 global OEMs. So yes until we are atmanirbhar in engine tech they can very well fvck us if they so please. Why do you think we are willing to pay big bucks to Safran/RR for the 110 kN engine?

 

[Spitfire9]

No we don't! Please read some earlier research I did here & here. Happy reading!



Again if you did some reading on your own I wouldn't have to school you. But here is your answer. The M88-4 you keep tom-toming is a paper engine- this comes from the resident French expert on all things military. It is ~90kN, not a 110kN so even on paper specs it does not match what we need. For SCAF they are going for an all new engine unrelated to M88 (other than building on tech base of an earlier gen engine in the broadest sense of the word).



Not so sure about the easy part. Can you put some time lines around it. How much time to make the transition and what changes were made to the aircraft. I cannot believe it was a drop fit- it never is. An aircraft is designed around the engine(s).



Going crazy for a senile 80 yo is not out of the ordinary- don't you think. He is old and it is perfectly fine if he trips going up the air ladder too fast. But do remember despite the US pharma lobby he was quickly shown the light and came around to doing the right thing. Wheels within wheels within wheels. Indian lobby is fairly effective in the US.



You may recall how our scientists working on Tejas CLAWs were booted from LM's labs the day we tested the nuke bombs. We did not even have access to our own work on their computers (that it got us going is a story of resilience for another day). The west can be nasty when they want to be.

Engine tech is in the hands of 4-5 global OEMs. So yes until we are atmanirbhar in engine tech they can very well fvck us if they so please. Why do you think we are willing to pay big bucks to Safran/RR for the 110 kN engine?

You could have done that 10 years ago when it was obvious that Kaveri development would not be completed without outside help. At that point RR or SNECMA could have been paid a load of $$$ to enable India to make Indian fighters with Indian engines without foreign powers switching production off (by embargo of engines) or grounding aircraft in IAF service (embargo of spares).

As various other people on this forum have informed me, there have been no disastrous failures in the Tejas programme, so I am obviously a complete idiot in what I say.

PS My profession is software development, quite often taking over programmes that have gone awry, fallen behind schedule or are failing in other ways and getting the capability required produced on schedule and on budget.

 

[Ar.gaurav28]

PS My profession is software development, quite often taking over programmes that have gone awry, fallen behind schedule or are failing in other ways and getting the capability required produced on schedule and on budget.

The Budget has been the biggest constraint look how little we have spend in R&D for the engine where we all know it’s most important asset is metallurgy.
& fun fact we want 2-3 types of engine and we don’t even have high altitude test bed!

Still there is lack of sincerity!

 

[MonaLazy]

could have done

Will only deal with what is. Coulda.. woulda.. shoulda.. is a slippery slope I have no intention of treading.

 

[Ar.gaurav28]

No we don't! Please read some earlier research I did here & here. Happy reading!

 

[Ar.gaurav28]

Not so sure about the easy part. Can you put some time lines around it. How much time to make the transition and what changes were made to the aircraft. I cannot believe it was a drop fit- it never is. An aircraft is designed around the engine(s).

https://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&r...2-gt-403.pdf&usg=AOvVaw1Fld49hkA6qgb3KClrrkUR

Ofcourse it ain’t like changing the lock on the door but it is possible and would be done even in tejas mk2 if we are able to make a 110kn thrust engine of our own!

You may recall how our scientists working on Tejas CLAWs were booted from LM's labs the day we tested the nuke bombs. We did not even have access to our own work on their computers (that it got us going is a story of resilience for another day). The west can be nasty when they want to be.

Engine tech is in the hands of 4-5 global OEMs. So yes until we are atmanirbhar in engine tech they can very well fvck us if they so please. Why do you think we are willing to pay big bucks to Safran/RR for the 110 kN engine?

In those days they were doing us a favour not joint developing anything when LM kicked us out. But now,Time has changed it’s multipolar world now and they need India to contain China!
&
Yes we will have to pay big bucks to save time in R&D thus, joint develop a engine with IP rights as we are getting it with RR.

Again if you did some reading on your own I wouldn't have to school you. But here is your answer. The M88-4 you keep tom-toming is a paper engine- this comes from the resident French expert on all things military. It is ~90kN, not a 110kN so even on paper specs it does not match what we need. For SCAF they are going for an all new engine unrelated to M88 (other than building on tech base of an earlier gen engine in the broadest sense of the word).

https://www.safran-aircraft-engines...gn-mou-military-engine-collaboration-20210208
Please read it carefully!!

 

[Bleh]

 

[Kchontha]

We indian are silly, while craving for western technology sacrifices the ruskies. Su35 is a potent weapon platform feared by westerners but still we have a problem with it here n there, the same is the case with su57 because we go by what the dalals say. If uncle sam sanctions the whole programs delayed by one n half decades. Solutions look for alternatives.

 

[Bleh]

We indian are silly, while craving for western technology sacrifices the ruskies. Su35 is a potent weapon platform feared by westerners but still we have a problem with it here n there, the same is the case with su57 because we go by what the dalals say. If uncle sam sanctions the whole programs delayed by one n half decades. Solutions look for alternatives.

M8 only silly thing is these sanction-doomsday talk.. Turkey has been actually slapped with CAATSA & US is still supplying them engines for their attack helicopters!

Unless the cows do something really stupid like nuking civilians, we're good.

 

[Kchontha]

U never know, dont put all your eggs on the same basket.

 

[Bleh]

U never know, dont put all your eggs on the same basket.

Our other basket is 110kN RR engine.. These baskets are too costly to have in dozens. We assemble Mig-29's RD-33, if push comes to shove.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Our other basket is 110kN RR engine.. These baskets are too costly to have in dozens. We assemble Mig-29's RD-33, if push comes to shove.

We can make our own engine in next 10 yr or so... And there is no point in jumping up and down because time is what it needs with investment and project planning.

Unfortunately we have lost more than 10 yrs on negotiations only with foreign firms which is costing us dearly now. We should have picked up one consultant partner and gone with that.

 

[Bleh]

The canards of MWF, are not what you thought they'd be like.

We can make our own engine in next 10 yr or so... And there is no point in jumping up and down because time is what it needs with investment and project planning.

Unfortunately we have lost more than 10 yrs on negotiations only with foreign firms which is costing us dearly now. We should have picked up one consultant partner and gone with that.

Hindsight 20/20.. Safran fucked Rafale with undepowerd engines. They have a bad rep for that in France. Their high power engines are huge like M-53-2 & GE is far ahead of them on basis od weight-size efficiency.

 

[Spitfire9]

The canards of MWF, are not what you thought they'd be like. View attachment 87848



Hindsight 20/20.. Safran fucked Rafale with undepowerd engines. They have a bad rep for that in France. Their high power engines are huge like M-53-2 & GE is far ahead of them on basis od weight-size efficiency.

If Rafale is compromised by underpowered engines why did India order 36 of them?

 

[Killbot]

If Rafale is compromised by underpowered engines why did India order 36 of them?

Underpowered =/= all bad

 

[HariPrasad-1]

MWF is also supposed to get that 110KN thrust engine!
that would be a 30% increase in thrust!

People often quote afterburner thrust only. However, Dry thrust is very important as it determines MTOW, Super cruise etc.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Another bonus, in celebration of Mamtaz Begum losing her constituency...

View attachment 87770

View attachment 87771

In latest design, Cockpit looks different. It looks much more aerodynamic.