ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

Trololo

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2017
Messages
317
Likes
687
Country flag
Due to much higher internal fuel, overall T/W ratio of Mark2 is same as Tejas Mark1... About 0.95 (considering present F414, not EPE)

Performance difference will be brought by canards, superior aerodynamics & improved FCS, not brute power.
There is a possibility that the Mk2 will get F414-GE-400 engines which makes around 116 KN of thrust and has similar fuel efficiency and better reliability than F414 INS-6.
 

Bleh

Laughing member
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
4,574
Likes
15,882
Country flag
There is a possibility that the Mk2 will get F414-GE-400 engines which makes around 116 KN of thrust and has similar fuel efficiency and better reliability than F414 INS-6.
Nope. F414-400 generate 98kN thrust in test rigs & about 95kN mounted on jet in Indian condition.

F414-EPE don't exist yet. If it does, then maybe someday... I think the TVC option on F414 will do the trick & then some more. No need to burn fuel for what can be achieved in other ways.
 
Last edited:

dude00720

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Messages
466
Likes
1,586
Country flag
There is a possibility that the Mk2 will get F414-GE-400 engines which makes around 116 KN of thrust and has similar fuel efficiency and better reliability than F414 INS-6.
Basically, do all you can to stop Kaveri development.
 

Trololo

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2017
Messages
317
Likes
687
Country flag
Basically, do all you can to stop Kaveri development.
No. Indigenous 110 KN class engine will not be ready until AMCA Mk2 is ready to go. At that point the same engine, with some mods, will be back ported to the MWF and TEDBF. Indigenous engine is being developed with this goal in mind. At this point of time we do not have other options. M88 is too underpowered, current EJ-200 has whims of 4 countries (including human rights ke hawaldar Germany) and makes around 8KN less power than the F414, and don't even get me started on the RD-33. Like it or not but till about 2025 we are tightly coupled with US MIC, for better or for worse. Given the circumstances the F414 is our best bet to get our aircraft industry rolling and actually churning out products.
 
Last edited:

Akula

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2019
Messages
1,931
Likes
5,991
Country flag
No. Indigenous 110 KN class engine will not be ready until AMCA Mk2 is ready to go. At that point the same engine, with some mods, will be back ported to the MWF and TEDBF. Indigenous engine is being developed with this goal in mind. At this point of time we do not have other options. M88 is too underpowered, current EJ-200 has whims of 4 countries (including human rights ke hawaldar Germany) and makes around 8KN less power than the F414, and don't even get me started on the RD-33. Like it or not but till about 2025 we are tightly coupled with US MIC, for better or for worse. Given the circumstances the F414 is our best bet to get our aircraft industry rolling and actually churning out products.
Then how we are able to get Meteor missile for our Rafales? Germany is not allowing supply of MBDA Meteor missiles to Middle East countries which operate both Rafale and Typhoon.
 

Flying Dagger

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2019
Messages
2,008
Likes
4,808
Country flag
There is a possibility that the Mk2 will get F414-GE-400 engines which makes around 116 KN of thrust and has similar fuel efficiency and better reliability than F414 INS-6.
That possibility is actually work of the forum members in reality ADA have decided to opt for the one available now with 97/98 kn wet thrust.

But let's hope some miracle happens.
 

kurup

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
492
Likes
1,005
Country flag
Don't like the new dual-rack for Astra tho... Old one from previous models looker sleeker. This one gives overall aerodynamic benefits probably.

View attachment 75126
1. Canard attached to a bulge running below along the canopy to spine .

2. Aileron control mechanism now moved from below the wings to top of the wing and moved towards the main body .

3. Non-retractable IFR probe ?

Nice design , akin to a mini TEDBF
 

Bleh

Laughing member
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
4,574
Likes
15,882
Country flag
1. Canard attached to a bulge running below along the canopy to spine .

2. Aileron control mechanism now moved from below the wings to top of the wing and moved towards the main body .

3. Non-retractable IFR probe ?

Nice design , akin to a mini TEDBF
They've moved IFR probe (IRST too), possibly not for now reason. It's new position screams retractable. Compare to Eurofighter Typhoon... And they may have tried this to Tejas once, but probably didn't manage enough space.

images (1).jpeg


scan0001.jpg
 

Starlight

New Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2021
Messages
3
Likes
5
Country flag
I read a while back that the Tejas Mark 2 will have a retractable IFR probe. The Dassault fighter aircraft series hangover is not really needed. Therefore the designers at HAL/ADA should address this immediately as the retractable IFR probe is their crown jewel as observed for the Tejas series design. For the HAL Tejas series aircraft in the future, the norm should be retrofitting the Retractable IFR probe on the Mark 1 and Mark 1A while having the Retractable probe as standard on the Mark 2.
 
Last edited:

WarriorIndian

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2009
Messages
279
Likes
852
Country flag
I read a while back that the Tejas Mark 2 will have a retractable IFR probe. The Dassault fighter aircraft series hangover is not really needed. Therefore the designers at HAL/ADA should address this immediately as the retractable IFR probe is their crown jewel as observed for the Tejas series design. For the HAL Tejas series aircraft in the future, the norm should be retrofitting the Retractable IFR probe on the Mark 1 and Mark 1A while having the Retractable probe as standard on the Mark 2.
I dont think you'd get to see that in Mark 2 because it doesn't offer much advantage to a 4+ Gen aircraft, besides IAF needs something that's easy to maintain. Tejas MK2 might sport a removable probe as like in Mirage or maybe even the Rafales might so the drag penalty is not there when the mission doesn't call for it.
 

Trololo

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2017
Messages
317
Likes
687
Country flag
Then how we are able to get Meteor missile for our Rafales? Germany is not allowing supply of MBDA Meteor missiles to Middle East countries which operate both Rafale and Typhoon.
A meteor is a less expensive and less glamorous piece of kit than an EJ-200. Also we can make our meteor equivalents. Not an EJ-200 equivalent. Germany has much more leverage here. But since we aren't a pushover anymore, they won't overtly try to slight us with the Meteor sale.
 

Trololo

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2017
Messages
317
Likes
687
Country flag
That possibility is actually work of the forum members in reality ADA have decided to opt for the one available now with 97/98 kn wet thrust.

But let's hope some miracle happens.
EPE was not ready when Mk2 configuration and design was being evaluated and frozen. Flight testing and validation will happen with 98KN engine, and possibly the first low volume production run will happen with the same. But I'm pretty certain that if the EPE comes as a drop fit for INS6, and should the Gripen-E switch over to that, then the Mk2 will do the same as well. More than thrust, EPE will give higher on board electrical power which can improve the electronics performance.
 

Annaa

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2021
Messages
44
Likes
63
Country flag
Mwf vs mirage vs mig29 vs jaguar jet
  • Crew: 1 or 2
  • Length: 14.60 m (47 ft 11 in)
  • Wingspan: 8.50 m (27 ft 11 in)
  • Height: 4.86 m (15 ft 11 in)
  • Wing area: 44 m2 (470 sq ft)
  • Airfoil: close canard, compound tailless delta wing designed for static instability.
  • Empty weight: 7,850 kg (17,306 lb) (expected)
  • Gross weight: 11,300 kg (24,912 lb) (expected)
  • Max takeoff weight: 17,500 kg (38,581 lb) (expected)[36][37]
  • Fuel capacity: 3,400 kg (7,500 lb)[1]
  • Powerplant: 1 × General Electric F414-GE-INS6EPE turbofan, 58.5 kN (13,200 lbf) thrust dry, 98 kN (22,000 lbf) with afterburner
Performance(expected)

  • Maximum speed: Mach 2.0
  • Range: 2,500 km (1,600 mi, 1,300 nmi) (minimum)
  • Combat range: 1,500 km (930 mi, 810 nmi)
  • Ferry range: 3,500 km (2,200 mi, 1,900 nmi) with 3 additional fuel tanks
  • Service ceiling: 17,300 m (50,000 ft) (expected)
  • g limits: +9/−3.5 (expected)
  • Thrust/weight: 1.00 (expected)
Armament

Avionics

Mirage jet
  • Crew: 1
  • Length: 14.36 m (47 ft 1 in)
  • Wingspan: 9.13 m (29 ft 11 in)
  • Height: 5.2 m (17 ft 1 in)
  • Wing area: 41 m2 (440 sq ft)
  • Empty weight: 7,500 kg (16,535 lb)
  • Gross weight: 13,800 kg (30,424 lb)
  • Max takeoff weight: 17,000 kg (37,479 lb)
  • Powerplant: 1 × SNECMA M53-P2 afterburning turbofan engine, 64.3 kN (14,500 lbf) thrust dry, 95.1 kN (21,400 lbf) with afterburner
Performance

  • Maximum speed: 2,336 km/h (1,452 mph, 1,261 kn) / M2.2 at high altitude
1,110 km/h (690 mph; 600 kn) at sea level
  • Range: 1,550 km (960 mi, 840 nmi)
  • Ferry range: 3,335 km (2,072 mi, 1,801 nmi) with auxiliary fuel
  • Service ceiling: 17,060 m (55,970 ft)
  • Rate of climb: 285 m/s (56,100 ft/min)[citation needed]
  • Wing loading: 337 kg/m2 (69 lb/sq ft)
  • Thrust/weight: 0.7
Armament

  • Guns: 2× 30 mm (1.2 in) DEFA 554 revolver cannon, 125 rounds per gun
  • Hardpoints: 9 total (4× under-wing, 5× under-fuselage) with a capacity of 6,300 kg (13,900 lb) external fuel and ordnance,
  • Rockets: Matra 68 mm unguided rocket pods, 18 rockets per pod
  • Missiles:
  • Bombs:
    • Unguided:
    • Guided:
      • PGM 500 and PGM 2000 modular guided bombs (Mirage 2000-9)
      • AS-30L laser-guided missile (Mirage 2000 D)
      • GBU-12 laser-guided bombs (Mirage 2000 D, Mirage 2000 C & Mirage 2000 N with external laser designation)
      • GBU-16 laser-guided bomb (Mirage 2000 D, Mirage 2000 C & Mirage 2000 N with external laser designation)
      • GBU-24 laser-guided bomb (Mirage 2000 D, Mirage 2000 C & Mirage 2000 N with external laser designation)
      • GBU-49 laser-guided bombs (Mirage 2000 D)
      • ASMP-A tactical nuclear cruise missile (Mirage 2000 N)
      • 1x Spice 2000 (Mirage 2000 N)[1]
Avionics

Mig29
  • Crew: 1
  • Length: 17.32 m (56 ft 10 in)
  • Wingspan: 11.36 m (37 ft 3 in)
  • Height: 4.73 m (15 ft 6 in)
  • Wing area: 38 m2 (410 sq ft)
  • Empty weight: 11,000 kg (24,251 lb)
  • Gross weight: 14,900 kg (32,849 lb)
  • Max takeoff weight: 18,000 kg (39,683 lb)
  • Fuel capacity: 3,500 kg (7,716 lb) internal
  • Powerplant: 2 × Klimov RD-33 afterburning turbofan engines, 81.59 kN (18,340 lbf) with afterburner
Performance

  • Maximum speed: 2,400 km/h (1,500 mph, 1,300 kn) at high altitude
  • Maximum speed: Mach 2.25
  • Range: 1,430 km (890 mi, 770 nmi) with maximum internal fuel[252]
  • Ferry range: 2,100 km (1,300 mi, 1,100 nmi) with 1x drop tank
  • Service ceiling: 18,000 m (59,000 ft)
  • g limits: +9
  • Rate of climb: 330 m/s (65,000 ft/min) [253]
  • Wing loading: 403 kg/m2 (83 lb/sq ft)
  • Thrust/weight: 1.09
Armament

Avionics

Jaguar jet
  • Crew: 1 (A and S) ; 2 (B and E)
  • Length: 16.83 m (55 ft 3 in) (A and S) with minor variations dependent on nose configuration ; 17.53 m (57.5 ft) (B and E) with minor variations dependent on nose probe type (AAR or pitot)
  • Wingspan: 8.69 m (28 ft 6 in)
  • Height: 4.89 m (16 ft 1 in)
  • Wing area: 24.18 m2 (260.3 sq ft)
  • Aspect ratio: 3.12
  • Empty weight: 7,000 kg (15,432 lb) typical, (dependent on variant and role)
  • Gross weight: 10,954 kg (24,149 lb) full internal fuel and 120 rpg
  • Max takeoff weight: 15,700 kg (34,613 lb) with external stores
  • Fuel capacity: 4,200 l (1,100 US gal; 920 imp gal) internal, with provision for three 1,200 l (320 US gal; 260 imp gal) drop tanks on inboard and centreline pylons
  • Powerplant: 2 × Rolls-Royce Turbomeca Adour Mk.102 afterburning turbofan engines, 22.75 kN (5,110 lbf) thrust each dry, 32.5 kN (7,300 lbf) with afterburner
Performance

  • Maximum speed: 1,350 km/h (840 mph, 730 kn) Mach 1.1 at sea level
1,699 km/h (1,056 mph; 917 kn) Mach 1.6 at 11,000 m (36,000 ft)
  • Landing speed: 213 km/h (132 mph; 115 kn)
  • Combat range: 815 km (506 mi, 440 nmi) hi-lo-hi (internal fuel)
575 km (357 mi; 310 nmi) lo-lo-lo (internal fuel)1,408 km (875 mi; 760 nmi) hi-lo-hi (with external fuel)908 km (564 mi; 490 nmi) lo-lo-lo (with external fuel)
  • Ferry range: 1,902 km (1,182 mi, 1,027 nmi) with full internal and external tanks
  • Service ceiling: 14,000 m (46,000 ft) [140]
  • g limits: +8.6 (ultimate load +12)
  • Time to altitude: 9,145 m (30,003 ft) in 1 minute 30 seconds[140]
  • Wing loading: 649.3 kg/m2 (133.0 lb/sq ft) maximum
  • Thrust/weight: Adour Mk.102: 0.422
Adour Mk.104: 0.464Adour Mk.811: 0.486
  • Take-off run: 580 m (1,900 ft) with typical tactical load
  • Take-off run to 15 m (49 ft): 940 m (3,080 ft) with typical tactical load
  • Landing run from 15 m (49 ft): 785 m (2,575 ft) with typical tactical load
  • Landing run: 470 m (1,540 ft) with typical tactical load
Armament

 

Flying Dagger

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2019
Messages
2,008
Likes
4,808
Country flag
EPE was not ready when Mk2 configuration and design was being evaluated and frozen. Flight testing and validation will happen with 98KN engine, and possibly the first low volume production run will happen with the same. But I'm pretty certain that if the EPE comes as a drop fit for INS6, and should the Gripen-E switch over to that, then the Mk2 will do the same as well. More than thrust, EPE will give higher on board electrical power which can improve the electronics performance.
It was offered to us for a very long time but we declined. They won't put money in dev. without getting firm order.
 

LegendaryR3D

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2021
Messages
18
Likes
61
Country flag
MWF:
  • Empty weight: 7,850 kg (17,306 lb) (expected)
  • Gross weight: 11,300 kg (24,912 lb) (expected)
  • Max takeoff weight: 17,500 kg (38,581 lb) (expected)[36][37]
  • Powerplant: 1 × General Electric F414-GE-INS6EPE turbofan, 58.5 kN (13,200 lbf) thrust dry, 98 kN (22,000 lbf) with afterburner
Mirage 2K:
  • Empty weight: 7,500 kg (16,535 lb)
  • Gross weight: 13,800 kg (30,424 lb)
  • Max takeoff weight: 17,000 kg (37,479 lb)
  • Powerplant: 1 × SNECMA M53-P2 afterburning turbofan engine, 64.3 kN (14,500 lbf) thrust dry, 95.1 kN (21,400 lbf) with afterburner
Mig 29:
  • Empty weight: 11,000 kg (24,251 lb)
  • Gross weight: 14,900 kg (32,849 lb)
  • Max takeoff weight: 18,000 kg (39,683 lb)
  • Powerplant: 2 × Klimov RD-33 afterburning turbofan engines, 81.59 kN (18,340 lbf) with afterburner
MiG 29 is a lemon when compared to the other two. Lousy MTOW, high empty weight, and the logistics/maintenance cost of dual engines.

I have heard a story that it was only procured due to discount prices from USSR, and that the IAF really wanted more Mirage 2Ks. I am inclined to believe it just viewing the specs.
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top