ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[Killbot]

Yes, announced in AKM video.

The Brahmos-NG (1500kg) & RudraM-3 (1600kg+) are to be carried.

What is the relationship between RudraM1, M2 and M3?

 

[Bleh]

What is the relationship between RudraM1, M2 and M3?

RudraM-1 is the NGARM, almost nothing is known about RudraM-2, and the final RudraM-3 is a primarily anti-ratiation supersonic cruise missile like a successor to Rusky Kh-15.

 

[Akula]

RudraM-1 is the NGARM, almost nothing is known about RudraM-2, and the final RudraM-3 is a primarily anti-ratiation supersonic cruise missile like a successor to Rusky Kh-15.

I think RudraM-2 is a deep earth penetrator.

 

[Killbot]

RudraM-1 is the NGARM, almost nothing is known about RudraM-2, and the final RudraM-3 is a primarily anti-ratiation supersonic cruise missile like a successor to Rusky Kh-15.

Wasn't there talk of it being a hypersonic ALBM? My goodness, this is confusing..

 

[porky_kicker]

RudraM-I
Air to surface missile with dual pulse propulsion
Supersonic
150 km range
PHH and MMW seeker

RudraM-II/RudraM-IIA

Air to surface aeroballistic missile
Supersonic
700 /1000 kg weight
330 km range
200 kg warhead ( PCB/PF/? )
IIR seeker

RudraM-III

Air to surface aeroballistic missile
High supersonic
1.6 ton weight
550 km range
RF seeker

I don't think given the range and warhead weight and type , RudraM-II and RudraM-III are anti radiation missiles.

Anti radiation could be one of the roles ( with custom variants ) but not the primary role.

IMO the other roles primarily will be anti structure , anti HDBT and as a EPW. There could be other roles too .

 

[sorcerer]

Tejas Mark II to Roll Out Next Year; High-speed Trials in 2023:HAL Chief Madhavan

Tejas Mark II to Roll Out Next Year; High-speed Trials in 2023:HAL Chief Madhavan - News18

Chairman and Managing Director of Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd R Madhavan said the structural package and other work on the Tejas Mark II is progressing well and its production is likely to start somewhere around 2025.

www.news18.com

 

[porky_kicker]

People are saying it is RudraM-III

If one looks carefully

One will infer that the missile doesn't have a radome , the nose tip section is small and radomes are always a single piece ( there cannot be joints or rivetting ahead of the seeker ) , and given the size of the missile , the nose tip section is kind of small ( any seeker antenna there will be really tiny ).

So the said missile IMO is INS-GPS guided.

And I cannot say if it RudraM-III. There are just too many control surfaces in the rear . Both RudraM-II / RudraM-III schematics showed 8 control surfaces each , now the yellow coloured missile has 16 rear control surfaces alone.

My suspicion is it is a variant of RudraM-II , the additional 2 sets of new fins are positioned alternatively ahead of the original 2 set of fins in RudraM-II.

 

[Bleh]

Wasn't there talk of it being a hypersonic ALBM? My goodness, this is confusing..

You don't air launch a ballistic missile. That'd be pointless... I doubt the chatter suggesting so. Especially because of shit-ton control surfaces on it.

 

[Akula]

You don't air launch a ballistic missile. That'd be pointless

He is talking about Kinzhal type missile.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

You don't air launch a ballistic missile. That'd be pointless

Why would launching a ballistic missile from a highly manuverable platform that can, for a limited time, enter enemy's airspace, be "pointless"?

 

[Bleh]

Why would launching a ballistic missile from a highly manuverable platform that can, for a limited time, enter enemy's airspace, be "pointless"?

Because of how it works.

Firstly, while carrying it you're not any sort of manoeuvrable... or low observable. Might as well use a jumbo-jet to launch.
And unlike Cruise missiles (which has a range of barely few thousand km max & will gain an advantage from being carried a bit) ballistic missiles will fly up into the space and come around, 5-10k km range is easily achieved that way. Air-launching those would not be necessary, even tactical ballistic missiles are deliberately short ranged.

We don't need more predictable ballistic missiles, we need hypersonic or atleast high supersonic cruise missiles & stealthy cruise missiles with various guidances like IIR, TV, IRNSS etc. to effectively overcome countermeasures.

He is talking about Kinzhal type missile.

Oh, could be. That just flies through high atmosphere to bypass drag, not truly ballistic... Plus neither of ours are appropriately to be hypersonic, unlike Kinzgal.

So again, I'm not claiming to be 100% sure but you should be really doubtful.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Because of how it works.

Firstly, while carrying it you're not any sort of manoeuvrable... or low observable. Might as well use a jumbo-jet to launch.

And unlike Cruise missiles (which has a range of barely few thousand km max & will gain an advantage from being carried a bit) ballistic missiles will fly up into the space and come around, 5-10k km range is easily achieved that way. Air-launching those would not be necessary, even tactical ballistic missiles are deliberately short ranged.

Nobody is talking about launching heavy nuclear IRBM from jets. Shorter ranger missiles are being talked about here with ranges of a few hundred kilometers.

 

[Bleh]

Nobody is talking about launching heavy nuclear IRBM from jets. Shorter ranger missiles are being talked about here with ranges of a few hundred kilometers.

Sorry added the reply to you above.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Sorry added the reply to you above.

We don't need more predictable ballistic missiles, we need hypersonic or atleast high supersonic cruise missiles & stealthy cruise missiles with various guidances like IIR, TV, IRNSS etc. to effectively overcome countermeasures.

Not quite. Once enemy AD is effectively supressed or destroyed, its cheaper to use ballistic missiles rather than hypersonic/supersonic cruise missiles or stealthy subsonic cruise missiles.
Similar to how we need dumb bombs despite having smart ones.

 

[Bleh]

Not quite. Once enemy AD is effectively supressed or destroyed, its cheaper to use ballistic missiles rather than hypersonic/supersonic cruise missiles or stealthy subsonic cruise missiles.
Similar to how we need dumb bombs despite having smart ones.

Then use pralay & prithvi & stuff!.. Why'll you need to air-launch that crap?

Kinzgal itself might just be a gimmick. Its capabilities are nothing special compared to regular ballistic missile. You can make equally maneuverable, longer-ranged, Mach10 capable ballistic missiles without any complications of air-launched version, which simply isn't necessary.

You know what's necessary?.. A stealthy cruise missile for MWF (all our jets, but this its thread)... & a truely long-ranged sea-skimming high-supersonic LFRJ... & a TV based A2G missile to be the workhorse.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Then use pralay & prithvi & stuff... Why's you need to air launch that crap?

Kinzgal itself might just be a gimmick. Its capabilities are nothing special compared to regilar ballistic missile. You can make equally maneuverable, longer-ranged, Mach10 capable ballistic missiles without any complications of air-launched version, which simply isn't that necessary.

Its better to have both air and ground launched options. Enemy ISR might be able to locate the majority of your Ground based TEL but jets can hit from unexpected axes of attack.

Kinzhal is old wine in new bottle, but that doesn't mean the weapon is obsolete. It just means that its nothing new.

You know what's necessary?.. A stealthy cruise missile for MWF (all our jets, but this its thread)... & a truely long-ranged sea-skimming high-supersonic LFRJ... & a TV based A2G missile to be the workhorse.
View attachment 75843View attachment 75844

Agree 100%.

 

[Killbot]

You don't air launch a ballistic missile. That'd be pointless... I doubt the chatter suggesting so. Especially because of shit-ton control surfaces on it.

@porky_kicker seems to think otherwise. And there is the Kinzhal. Though I don't get the point, really. You'd be better served with a stealthy or hypersonic cruise missile. Or even ground launched ballistic missile like prithvi.

 

[porky_kicker]

@porky_kicker seems to think otherwise. And there is the Kinzhal. Though I don't get the point, really. You'd be better served with a stealthy or hypersonic cruise missile. Or even ground launched ballistic missile like prithvi.

Aeroballistic missile is not exactly same as ballistic missile

Aeroballistic missiles are air launched and are aerodynamically more controllable throughout their flight unlike ballistic missiles while retaining some of the characteristics of ballistic missiles.

Kinzhal is aeroballistic

Basically it is a matter of nomenclature / schematics . Too much overlapping anyway.

 

[FalconZero]

 

[FalconZero]

View attachment 75856

Tejas has gotten thicker.