ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

Trololo

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If you have powerful simulators, we can substantially reduce the wind tunnel testing which is a big advantage. We shall test only those configuration on planes which can not be simulated.
Spot on. Hence supercomputers. I wonder if we can use the combined capacities of the IMD and ISRO supercomputers for this. Perhaps on a contractual basis of sorts.
 

gryphus-scarface

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Don't blabber about what you don't know about. Indian TEAMS don't figure consistently in the top 5 of any international olympiads or even the ACM ICPC. Individual performances always show the outliers of the distribution. The average lies in the middle of the bell curve. The further skewed that bell curve is to the good outliers, the better is the quality of the average individual. Even if getting into ISI is hard, it does not necessarily correlate with top notch research output. And it is research output (and its quality) that matters the most. You are unfortunately delusional with a false sense of superiority. We as a country are improving. And will continue to improve. Its just that despite our population of young people we are not where we should be. And that is what is sad.
You conveniently ignored the fact that Indian performances have been trending upward. Or the fact that ACM ICPC isn't even advertised all that heavily in India

https://www.codechef.com/icpc/

ICPC doesn't even have proper cities selected. As a Bengalurean I knew about it only after it was too late. And I am in the tech capital. Choosing unfair stats leads to bias.

As for B.Sc being looked don upon, maybe that was in the past but things have changed. The number of B. Sc. applicants has been increasing steadily, since more and more urban Indians are realising that a) engineering is not really their in forte b) more people are realising their interest in math. Even coaching institutes and starting to offer courses for ISI and CMS entrance.

Yes, looking and individual performance in unfair. It shows the outliers, not the mean. The mean however, is improving. The bell curve should slowly start shifting towards the right side. I won't be surprised if by the time Pranjal hits 12th, at least one team wins bronze.
 

gryphus-scarface

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Spot on. Hence supercomputers. I wonder if we can use the combined capacities of the IMD and ISRO supercomputers for this. Perhaps on a contractual basis of sorts.
Probably not. DRDO apparently recently set up their own supercomputer lab, with capability in petaflops, so maybe they are using this.

DRDO's ANURAG page mentions that they are partnering with other DRDO labs in aeronautics development.
 

HariPrasad-1

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Spot on. Hence supercomputers. I wonder if we can use the combined capacities of the IMD and ISRO supercomputers for this. Perhaps on a contractual basis of sorts.
We have sufficient computing power as well but what is necessary is the storage of RAW data got from simulation of results of wind tunnel testing and actual flight. As we keep updating our software, we can get better and better simulation result and minimize wind tunnel testing and refine the design to reduce the design freezing time.
 

Trololo

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You conveniently ignored the fact that Indian performances have been trending upward. Or the fact that ACM ICPC isn't even advertised all that heavily in India

https://www.codechef.com/icpc/

ICPC doesn't even have proper cities selected. As a Bengalurean I knew about it only after it was too late. And I am in the tech capital. Choosing unfair stats leads to bias.

As for B.Sc being looked don upon, maybe that was in the past but things have changed. The number of B. Sc. applicants has been increasing steadily, since more and more urban Indians are realising that a) engineering is not really their in forte b) more people are realising their interest in math. Even coaching institutes and starting to offer courses for ISI and CMS entrance.

Yes, looking and individual performance in unfair. It shows the outliers, not the mean. The mean however, is improving. The bell curve should slowly start shifting towards the right side. I won't be surprised if by the time Pranjal hits 12th, at least one team wins bronze.
I didn't ignore the upward trend. I said we are getting there. But not fast enough unfortunately. ICPC is quite popular now. And even if ICPC wasn't, ICPC level of problems should be. None of the Roadside Institute of Engineering and Management types teach that kind of stuff. Our B.Sc programs are also lopsided with a 3 year period instead of 4. The old mentality of Engineering entrance fails pursuing BSc still exists sadly. Higher entrants in BSc programs don't indicate that the quality of the same has improved, simply because top companies here seldom hire BSc grads and if they do then they are paid less than the Tech grads.
 

Trololo

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Probably not. DRDO apparently recently set up their own supercomputer lab, with capability in petaflops, so maybe they are using this.

DRDO's ANURAG page mentions that they are partnering with other DRDO labs in aeronautics development.
I see this as a god given opportunity for a bunch of universities to team up and work on at least 4 different topics: Faster data pipelines for supercomputing grids, numerical simulation of fluid dynamics (CFDs), numerical simulation of mechanics of materials, numerical simulation of aerothermodynamics.
 

gryphus-scarface

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I see this as a god given opportunity for a bunch of universities to team up and work on at least 4 different topics: Faster data pipelines for supercomputing grids, numerical simulation of fluid dynamics (CFDs), numerical simulation of mechanics of materials, numerical simulation of aerothermodynamics.
What you said is right. Thankfully the GoI and DRDO seem to recognise this. They've been involving many universities. As I understand it, AJIT and SHAKTI were made with the intent of replacing x86 and ARM chips in a lot of areas in India including like education (Arduinos and Raspberry Pis), and supercomputers. Apparently we will see those chips in commercial applications within 2 years. According to Ministry of IT, they aim to get AJIT and SHAKTI into supercomputers not too soon after. Supposedly other work is being done for supercomputers.

IIT Kanpur has already been involved in Ghatak's design and wind tunnel testing. Kharagpur is also reportedly involved in some other defence activities.

Simulation will likely remain with DRDO for now. I can't find any info on attempts to rope in universities for this.
 

Trololo

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What you said is right. Thankfully the GoI and DRDO seem to recognise this. They've been involving many universities. As I understand it, AJIT and SHAKTI were made with the intent of replacing x86 and ARM chips in a lot of areas in India including like education (Arduinos and Raspberry Pis), and supercomputers. Apparently we will see those chips in commercial applications within 2 years. According to Ministry of IT, they aim to get AJIT and SHAKTI into supercomputers not too soon after. Supposedly other work is being done for supercomputers.

IIT Kanpur has already been involved in Ghatak's design and wind tunnel testing. Kharagpur is also reportedly involved in some other defence activities.

Simulation will likely remain with DRDO for now. I can't find any info on attempts to rope in universities for this.
Shifting to RISC-V will be a great leap forward by India. We can use our custom implementations of RISC-V for our specific needs. And I do hope that Indian homegrown consumer tech can take this forward. If Android can be ported over to RISC-V, Indian fabless chipmakers don't have to pay boatloads of money to ARM. Windows already runs on ARM and I'm sure its a matter of time before it runs on RISC-V.
 

gryphus-scarface

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Shifting to RISC-V will be a great leap forward by India. We can use our custom implementations of RISC-V for our specific needs. And I do hope that Indian homegrown consumer tech can take this forward. If Android can be ported over to RISC-V, Indian fabless chipmakers don't have to pay boatloads of money to ARM. Windows already runs on ARM and I'm sure its a matter of time before it runs on RISC-V.
Yeah it will be massive. And the fact that they are targetting education institutions first is a good sign. An indigenous RPI equivalent will help getting computers to more poor people, so more people can experiment with these computers first. Any low level assembly type things they learn on it will make it easy for them to stick to RISC-V, but make moving to ARM and x86 harder. Somewhat like microsoft's own strategy. They definitely stand a chance if the funding is maintained.

As for consumer tech, beyond the educational board, I suspect all they will release is CPUs. So other companies will have to step in and try making finished products. SignalChip already designed a basic 4G modem, so that's a good sign. Integrating the two, and adding RAM should give us an indigenous SOC with reasonable performance and specs. We already have LCD display capabilities with SAMTEL. We should focus on newer tech like OLED though.

Android is unlikely to be ported to RISC-V. It was hard enough maintaining the x86 port, despite Intel's resources. Google seems to be developing their own Fuchsia for the future, to replace Android. Personally I'm hoping that linux distros take over. I could easily see something like BOSS linux being updated to include an Android emulator. Then we could replace android effectively with FOSS and indigenous stuff.

We could easy have our own competitor to Pure and other brands not too far in the future.
 

Holy Triad

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develop a retractable in-flight refueling probe is in a cavity on the right side of the forward fuselage section which will feature in the production variant. ADA is also working on the addition of Conformal fuel tanks (CFTs) fitted closely to the profile of an aircraft near its spine so that external pylons on wings don’t need to carry additional external tanks which also free up pylons for an extra ordinance. Two CFTs will able to carry 1000 liters of additional fuel each which will boost the range of MCF by 20-25%.

idrw.org .Read more at India No 1 Defence News Websitehttp://idrw.org/medium-combat-fighter-mcf-to-get-additional-feature-improvements-source/ .
 

IndianHawk

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develop a retractable in-flight refueling probe is in a cavity on the right side of the forward fuselage section which will feature in the production variant. ADA is also working on the addition of Conformal fuel tanks (CFTs) fitted closely to the profile of an aircraft near its spine so that external pylons on wings don’t need to carry additional external tanks which also free up pylons for an extra ordinance. Two CFTs will able to carry 1000 liters of additional fuel each which will boost the range of MCF by 20-25%.

idrw.org .Read more at India No 1 Defence News Websitehttp://idrw.org/medium-combat-fighter-mcf-to-get-additional-feature-improvements-source/ .
They need to fix the requirements for 1st batch of mwf and get cranking. All extra capabilities like retractable probe and cft can come with next batches. Otherwise IAF will demand all extra capabilities into first production batch itself and delay orders.

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no smoking

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If you have powerful simulators, we can substantially reduce the wind tunnel testing which is a big advantage.
Most of simulations happen in daily R&D (for purely scientific purpose) and designing stage. Once your whole plane design is accepted by your clients, the next stage is use wind tunnel to test your design thoroughly and real flying test of prototype. There is no much simulation can do in this stage unless you find a huge error in original design. In this case, it is generally meaning the you need to back to re-design the whole thing.

So, there is no much time can be saved by simulator in this stage.

We shall test only those configuration on planes which can not be simulated.
Wrong. Simulation doesn't replace the wind test or flying test but the manual mathematic calculation stage in past.
Or we should say: in the past, people uses paper and pen to simulate, now they are using computer. The advantage of the computer is the speed and accuracy why reduce the human error.

So, any plane can be simulated but every plane must be tested.
 

HariPrasad-1

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Wrong. Simulation doesn't replace the wind test or flying test but the manual mathematic calculation stage in past.
Or we should say: in the past, people uses paper and pen to simulate, now they are using computer. The advantage of the computer is the speed and accuracy why reduce the human error.

So, any plane can be simulated but every plane must be tested.
You are wrong once again. Manual mathematics is a very small part of design validation such as compliance of area rilling etc. It is also done on computer now.It doesn't consume big time. It is followed by simulation where those parts of design are tested which can be simulated such as boundary layer separation.
 

Advaidhya Tiwari

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Most of simulations happen in daily R&D (for purely scientific purpose) and designing stage. Once your whole plane design is accepted by your clients, the next stage is use wind tunnel to test your design thoroughly and real flying test of prototype. There is no much simulation can do in this stage unless you find a huge error in original design. In this case, it is generally meaning the you need to back to re-design the whole thing.

So, there is no much time can be saved by simulator in this stage.
Wrong. Simulation doesn't replace the wind test or flying test but the manual mathematic calculation stage in past.
Or we should say: in the past, people uses paper and pen to simulate, now they are using computer. The advantage of the computer is the speed and accuracy why reduce the human error.

So, any plane can be simulated but every plane must be tested.
Wind tunnel testing is also computer controlled and aided to understand even minute changes. In addition, 3D printing of parts enable in understanding aerodynamics and many models can be made to find the most optimal ones for use.

Simulation does not mean jut mathematical calculation. Even the airflow pattern and other physics are calculated and simulated
 

HariPrasad-1

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Wind tunnel testing is also computer controlled and aided to understand even minute changes. In addition, 3D printing of parts enable in understanding aerodynamics and many models can be made to find the most optimal ones for use.

Simulation does not mean jut mathematical calculation. Even the airflow pattern and other physics are calculated and simulated

This is basically a study of fluid dynamics. If you have high power computer, better and faster computer simulation can happen. Wind tunnel testing is also a simulation bit you have to enter plane manually in system. Which is time consuming.
 

no smoking

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Simulation does not mean jut mathematical calculation. Even the airflow pattern and other physics are calculated and simulated
Any airflow pattern or other physics simulation is kind of mathimatical calculation. The result of wind tunnel test is also presented in numbers.
 

no smoking

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You are wrong once again. Manual mathematics is a very small part of design validation such as compliance of area rilling etc. It is also done on computer now.It doesn't consume big time.
That was why I said - manual mathematics calculation was replaced by computer simulation.

It is followed by simulation where those parts of design are tested which can be simulated such as boundary layer separation.
No, all these parts of design should have already been simulated even before the whole program started. Once the clients put down their requirements, the designers should pull out the individual parts designs and focus on the whole plane integration and validation.
 

garg_bharat

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no smoking, India announces major defence projects after a lag, once some of the work is already done and risk is reduced.

I would think that Tejas 1A and MWF aerodynamics is already done. Work is more towards fighting characteristics.
 

IndianHawk

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For navy lca mk2 a prototype is already being built and should be ready by mid 2020.
Mwf can't be far behind. Expect a prototype by 2022 at the very late that is.

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