ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[Galaxy]

What 100 single engine Tejas MK1,2 will do by 2020-2022 ? Too much time wasted. No hope left. Everything is in future which never becomes present.

When our neighbours will operate J-20, we will start inducting Tejas.

Better, we buy more 40 MKI, 126 MMRCA (3 sq. direct + 4 sq. by HAL), 40 odd F-18 Super hornet or MIG29SMT and 100 PAK-FA and 200 FGFA after 2022

 

[nitesh]

What 100 single engine Tejas MK1,2 will do by 2020-2022 ? Too much time wasted. No hope left. Everything is in future which never becomes present.

We see too much of rona dhona over delays, some times justified, but seriously by 2022, does our enemies will just dump there non stealth planes completely? Being worry worried is justified, but this sort of hopeless statements are not making sense.

Better, we buy more 40 MKI, 126 MMRCA (3 sq. direct + 4 sq. by HAL), 40 odd F-18 Super hornet or MIG29SMT and 100 PAK-FA and 200 FGFA after 2022

What create one more logistical nightmare? At the time when IAF is looking for making logistics simple you are asking for making it more complicated

 

[Galaxy]

We see too much of rona dhona over delays, some times justified, but seriously by 2022, does our enemies will just dump there non stealth planes completely? Being worry worried is justified, but this sort of hopeless statements are not making sense.


What create one more logistical nightmare? At the time when IAF is looking for making logistics simple you are asking for making it more complicated

There is already news that 40 Tejas MKI 1 will be inducted only by 2014-2015. Tejas MK2 will go trial only in 2016-2017. So, It's literally impossible to have 100 Tejas before 2020-2022. So, By 2017 we will be operating only 40 MKI that also in Sulur(T.N) where there is no threat and most likely it won't even fly in any possible combat scenario.

Well, To be very frank Tejas is hopeless case. What 2-3 squadron of 4th and 4++ generation aircraft will do in 2015 and 2018 respectively ??

As per logistic, I do agree we need number and not more type of jets. So, We can buy more MKI (direct from Irkut). We can also Buy more MIG29SMT for naval. In addition, MMRCA (54 direct from Europe and rest by Hal from 2016-2020). Currently, HAL only making 12 MKI per year. Pathetic slow. By this way even 2017 deadline will not achieve and might reach 2020.

Tejas has become pride for us but unfortunately it won't make any difference for IAF and that is why i feel hopeless. It's not frustration but reality.

 

[Galaxy]

Naval LCA will take to skies soon

The much awaited first flight of the naval variant of the light combat aircraft (LCA), Tejas, is scheduled in about four week's time. The team behind the project is busy giving finishing touches.

Speaking to Deccan"ˆHerald, Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) chief P"ˆS"ˆSubramanya said,"ˆ"We have completed a series of ground tests and are almost through with the flight certification. We should have the first flight in the next four weeks."

The LCA"ˆNaval Prototype-1 (NP1), which is a trainer aircraft, will take to the skies for the first time in mid-December, but not without the required caution.

Subramanya, pointing out the flawless flight record of the Indian Air Force-version of Tejas has had - with no crashes or failures reported - said:"ˆ"We do not want to hurry up things in excitement and repent later."

The IAF"ˆversion of Tejas had its first flight on January 4, 2001. It has completed over 1,500 hours of flight, undergoing various tests, and has obtained the initial operational clearance (IOC).

Improvement

The LCA NP-1 though, will be different from its predecessor with a longer and stronger gear, front fuselage droop for better over-the-nose vision, an additional control surface to reduce carrier landing speed and consequential changes in various systems and will fly with a GE-F404-IN20 engine.

The LCA NP-1, designed specifically for ski jump take-off and arrested landing, is facing heavy undercarriage problem, which the team LCA is in the process of addressing.

A recent report said that it was bulkier by 500 kg. It had mentioned that the problem was first diagnosed in September 2010 and that the team has been in the process of reducing the same ever since.

The heavy undercarriage is being seen as one of the reasons for the delay in the maiden flight of the prototype. The aircraft, being developed for the Indian Navy, is likely to replace the Sea Harrier squadron, and already, orders for six aircraft have been placed.

While the NP-1 is a twin seater trainer, the NP-2 will be a single-seat fighter.

Naval LCA will take to skies soon

 

[nitesh]

There is already news that 40 Tejas MKI 1 will be inducted only by 2014-2015. Tejas MK2 will go trial only in 2016-2017. So, It's literally impossible to have 100 Tejas before 2020-2022. So, By 2017 we will be operating only 40 MKI that also in Sulur(T.N) where there is no threat and most likely it won't even fly in any possible combat scenario.

We already have more then100 MKI in our inventory, where this 40 number comes from?

Well, To be very frank Tejas is hopeless case. What 2-3 squadron of 4th and 4++ generation aircraft will do in 2015 and 2018 respectively ??

Well that's your opinion, not the fact.

As per logistic, I do agree we need number and not more type of jets. So, We can buy more MKI (direct from Irkut). We can also Buy more MIG29SMT for naval. In addition, MMRCA (54 direct from Europe and rest by Hal from 2016-2020). Currently, HAL only making 12 MKI per year. Pathetic slow. By this way even 2017 deadline will not achieve and might reach 2020.

The total number of MKI IAF is going to operate will be 272, add to the upgraded MiG29 (close to 70). upgraded Mirages (51) and the MRCA winner, apart from it, 45 MiG29K operated by IN. LCA will start coming slowly by this time, also the PAK FA will also start coming. What is need to increase more numbers?

Tejas has become pride for us but unfortunately it won't make any difference for IAF and that is why i feel hopeless. It's not frustration but reality.

Well, there is nothing wrong with the pride portion, but as according to you LCA is meaning less to IAF, then why bother at all?

 

[Dovah]

Naval LCA will take to skies soon

The much awaited first flight of the naval variant of the light combat aircraft (LCA), Tejas, is scheduled in about four week's time. The team behind the project is busy giving finishing touches.

Speaking to Deccan"ˆHerald, Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) chief P"ˆS"ˆSubramanya said,"ˆ"We have completed a series of ground tests and are almost through with the flight certification. We should have the first flight in the next four weeks."

The LCA"ˆNaval Prototype-1 (NP1), which is a trainer aircraft, will take to the skies for the first time in mid-December, but not without the required caution.

Subramanya, pointing out the flawless flight record of the Indian Air Force-version of Tejas has had - with no crashes or failures reported - said:"ˆ"We do not want to hurry up things in excitement and repent later."

The IAF"ˆversion of Tejas had its first flight on January 4, 2001. It has completed over 1,500 hours of flight, undergoing various tests, and has obtained the initial operational clearance (IOC).

Improvement

The LCA NP-1 though, will be different from its predecessor with a longer and stronger gear, front fuselage droop for better over-the-nose vision, an additional control surface to reduce carrier landing speed and consequential changes in various systems and will fly with a GE-F404-IN20 engine.

The LCA NP-1, designed specifically for ski jump take-off and arrested landing, is facing heavy undercarriage problem, which the team LCA is in the process of addressing.

A recent report said that it was bulkier by 500 kg. It had mentioned that the problem was first diagnosed in September 2010 and that the team has been in the process of reducing the same ever since.

The heavy undercarriage is being seen as one of the reasons for the delay in the maiden flight of the prototype. The aircraft, being developed for the Indian Navy, is likely to replace the Sea Harrier squadron, and already, orders for six aircraft have been placed.

While the NP-1 is a twin seater trainer, the NP-2 will be a single-seat fighter.

Naval LCA will take to skies soon

The paint job seems lighter on this one. Pretty.

 

[Galaxy]

We already have more then100 MKI in our inventory, where this 40 number comes from?

Indeed, We have around 130 MKI. Do you think 130 (7 squadron) is enough to maintain air superiority for 2 front conflict ?? MIRAGE 2k will take 10 years for upgradation and 68 MIg29 will also take 2 more years. In short, we need at least 300 fighter jets (15-20 squadron) for 2 side. we only have around 13 squadron of quality fighter jets which is at all time low. There are so many gap on our border. Like there is no quality jets from Bareilley to Siliguri, Jodhpur to Srinagar, No squadron in A&N Island and even whole south India. We are getting only 12 MKI per year. production rate is very slow. So, If we Buy 40 more direct from Russia then most likely by 2015, we will be operating 12 squadron of MKI by adding in 2 squadron in W.B., 1 in A&N Island, 2 in North part. Even we need 2 squadron in Gujarat & Rajasthan too. China + Pakistan have around 300-400 4th generation fighter jets in 500 Km range from our border. India is not U.A.E or K.S.A., We need as per our threat perception. We need quality fighter jets ASAP and not by 2020.

Well that's your opinion, not the fact.

Then what's fact nitesh ?? Please do elaborate how 40 Tejas MKI 1 in sulur (T.N.) by 2017 will make any difference to IAF ??

The total number of MKI IAF is going to operate will be 272, add to the upgraded MiG29 (close to 70). upgraded Mirages (51) and the MRCA winner, apart from it, 45 MiG29K operated by IN. LCA will start coming slowly by this time, also the PAK FA will also start coming. What is need to increase more numbers?

These all are futuristic induction. 51 Mirage M2k will be operated only by 2021. 68 MIG29UPG will be operational by 2013. 272 MKI by 2020 only.

45 MIG SMT is naval variant. How these 45 will make any difference in Kashmir to Arunchal pradesh 5,000 Km border ??

MMRCA - 2 squadron by 2017. Is this big deal or make major difference ??

Well, there is nothing wrong with the pride portion, but as according to you LCA is meaning less to IAF, then why bother at all?

I am not bothered in that sense. My point was Tejas won't make any difference to IAF seeing our threat. If it will make any major difference then Kindly do tell. Yes, 100 Tejas within 5 years matters a lot but not in 10 years that also depends on lots of Ifs and Buts.

 

[nitesh]

Indeed, We have around 130 MKI. Do you think 130 (7 squadron) is enough to maintain air superiority for 2 front conflict ?? MIRAGE 2k will take 10 years for upgradation and 68 MIg29 will also take 2 more years. In short, we need at least 250 fighter jets for 2 side. There are so many gap on our border. Like there is no quality jets from Bareilley to Siliguri, Jodhpur to Srinagar, No squadron in A&N Island and even whole south India. We are getting only 12 MKI per year. production rate is very slow. So, If we Buy 40 more direct from Russia then most likely by 2015, we will be operating 12 squadron of MKI by adding in 2 squadron in W.B., 1 in A&N Island, 2 in North part. Even we need 2 squadron in Gujarat & Rajasthan too. China + Pakistan have around 300-400 4th generation fighter jets in 500 Km range from our border. India is not U.A.E or K.S.A., We need as per our threat perception.

See, you are painting a scenario like IAF is all about MKI, everything else is useless. There is limit to the numbers too. The addition of forces is planned, some slippages happen, we are not living in ideal world. You have just posted a number 300-400 what does it means 301 or 399? It makes huge difference.

Then what's fact nitesh ?? Please do elaborate how 40 MKI in sulur (T.N.) by 2017 will make any difference to IAF ??

Why you need MKI in sulur? The LCA is given a place there only because it can play the point defense role. If it needs support kalikunda will provide that.

These all are futuristic induction. 51 Mirage M2k will be operated only by 2021. 68 MIG29UPG will be operational by 2013.

Boss still these birds are quite capable, they have BVR, don't write them off as useless junk

45 MIG SMT is naval variant. How these 45 will make any difference in Kashmir to Arunchal pradesh 5,000 Km border ??

Why IN need to operate in these theaters?

MMRCA - 2 squadron by 2017. Is this big deal or make major difference ??

So 40 all modern plane are a useless piece of junk according to you?

I am not bothered in that sense. My point was Tejas won't make any difference to IAF seeing our threat. If it will make any major difference then Kindly do tell. Yes, 100 Tejas within 5 years matters a lot but not in 10 years that also depends on lots of Ifs and Buts.

Every new product goes through induction phase, goes through problems and finally domes to age. IAF is getting the heavy and medium birds as planned. The light birds are coming, being a new product it is taking some time. We need to wait for it patiently, no other choice.

 

[Galaxy]

See, you are painting a scenario like IAF is all about MKI, everything else is useless. There is limit to the numbers too. The addition of forces is planned, some slippages happen, we are not living in ideal world. You have just posted a number 300-400 what does it means 301 or 399? It makes huge difference.

We don't have number that we need. Even IAF chief said on several occasion said "IAF need minimum 39.5 squadron for 2 front threat". We have around 30 in which 17 are 40 year old Mig 21,23,27 and Jaguar. Anything more from current number is better if not best. We only have 36 quality fighter jets in whole North-East in front of 150 odd Chinese jets. It's not less but risky too.

Why you need MKI in sulur? The LCA is given a place there only because it can play the point defense role. If it needs support kalikunda will provide that.

I agree on 1st part. Last time i heard in future kalikunda will provide support to A&N Island too. As of now, We don't have any 4th generation jets in Kalikunda. 1st squadron is expected only in 2013. Even in that scenario, 1 squadron will take care of W.B., nearby states, Sikkim, A&N Island and south ?. Don't you think it's too much to ask. Few months back, I read IAF chief said we will operate 5 squadron of MKI in N-E but 3 more sq. will take 5 years more. Mirage/MIG 29 is based in Gwalior and Punjab.

Boss still these birds are quite capable, they have BVR, don't write them off as useless junk

Yes, They are. I didn't said it's junk. They are good but we need more in number and better quality.

Why IN need to operate in these theaters?

For Islands, Malacca strait, to counter Pak and Chinese Navy, Piracy, Shipment, Arabian sea, Bay of Bengal. Many things and important but not for 5,000 Km Kashmir to A.P. border.

So 40 all modern plane are a useless piece of junk according to you?

I never said junked. I said 40 MMRCA won't make any major difference which is fact. MMRCA would be excellent. But we need more number as per our geography and geo-politics.

Every new product goes through induction phase, goes through problems and finally domes to age. IAF is getting the heavy and medium birds as planned. The light birds are coming, being a new product it is taking some time. We need to wait for it patiently, no other choice.

Yes, all are planned and we don't have any other option except to wait patiently


I think we are going off-topic. Actually what you replied is not what was my point. I didn't said anything about quality. MKI, Mirage, MIG 29 SMT/UPG, MMRCA, Tejas MK2 all are quality fighter jets. But my only concern was NUMBER which we lack very badly. We need at least 30 squadron of quality jets which is currently at 13 sq. which is ironically at all time low. MoD and GoI should take some serious effort to increase the number by more rapid induction of existing jets like MKI or new Induction like MMRCA/Tejas and upgradation of MIG29, Mirage 2k and even Jaguar. We have 10,000 Km border areas, many Islands and so many serious threat which will only increase and not decrease. 8)

 

[Galaxy]

See, you are painting a scenario like IAF is all about MKI, everything else is useless. There is limit to the numbers too. The addition of forces is planned, some slippages happen, we are not living in ideal world. You have just posted a number 300-400 what does it means 301 or 399? It makes huge difference.

We don't have number that we need. Even IAF chief said on several occasion said "IAF need minimum 39.5 squadron for 2 front threat". We have around 30 in which 17 are 40 year old Mig 21,23,27 and Jaguar. Anything more from current number is better if not best. We only have 36 quality fighter jets in whole North-East in front of 150 odd Chinese jets. It's not less but risky too.

Why you need MKI in sulur? The LCA is given a place there only because it can play the point defense role. If it needs support kalikunda will provide that.

I agree on 1st part. Last time i heard in future kalikunda will provide support to A&N Island too. As of now, We don't have any 4th generation jets in Kalikunda. 1st squadron is expected only in 2013. Even in that scenario, 1 squadron will take care of W.B., nearby states, Sikkim, A&N Island and south ?. Don't you think it's too much to ask. Few months back, I read IAF chief said we will operate 5 squadron of MKI in N-E but 3 more sq. will take 5 years more. Mirage/MIG 29 is based in Gwalior and Punjab.

Boss still these birds are quite capable, they have BVR, don't write them off as useless junk

Yes, They are. I didn't said it's junk. They are good but we need more in number and better quality.

Why IN need to operate in these theaters?

For Islands, Malacca strait, to counter Pak and Chinese Navy, Piracy, Shipment, Arabian sea, Bay of Bengal. Many things and important but not for 7,000 Km Gujarat to A.P. border.

So 40 all modern plane are a useless piece of junk according to you?

I never said junked. I said 40 MMRCA won't make any major difference which is fact. MMRCA would be excellent. But we need more number as per our geography and geo-politics.

Every new product goes through induction phase, goes through problems and finally domes to age. IAF is getting the heavy and medium birds as planned. The light birds are coming, being a new product it is taking some time. We need to wait for it patiently, no other choice.

Yes, all are planned and we don't have any other option except to wait patiently

I think we are going off-topic. Actually what you replied is not what was my point. I didn't said anything about quality. MKI, Mirage, MIG 29 SMT/UPG, MMRCA, Tejas MK2 all are quality fighter jets. But my only concern was NUMBER which we lack very badly. We need at least 30 squadron of quality jets which is currently at 13 sq. which is ironically at all time low. MoD and GoI should take some serious effort to increase the number by more rapid induction of existing jets like MKI or new Induction like MMRCA/Tejas and upgradation of MIG29, Mirage 2k and even Jaguar. We have 10,000 Km border areas, many Islands and so many serious threat which will only increase and not decrease. 8)

 

[dev.uitda]

My Take on why Tejas is indispensible

Ohh Comeon.. enough of bashing Tejas delays. Yes it is delayed and it is frustrating for IAF. Thats why they are filling a few squadrons with MMRCA. And Tejas MK1 is not the definitive version. Just wait for Mk2. Given the learning ADA has had over time now, it is going to progress at great pace and with Elta/DRDO AESA on it in the later versions it will be deadly enough. For the money it costs, it will pack quite a punch then. With Astra, Derby Python missiles which will arm Tejas along with Dash MK5 HMD from Elbit Systems, only fools will underestimate this potent machine.

Stealth is just overrated. Now everyone has powerful ground based radars and stealth can be compromised. America's plan of having a single platform (F35) may sound cool in terms of logistics but in another way it is just like putting all your bet on a single choice. Taking that into account India, Russia and China, among the big and growing boys, have nailed it by spreading their risks on various platforms. None is going to stop operating non-stealth (LO planes with 5th gen features except all aspect stealth) untill 2040s. Just because J20 will be inducted in 2020-2022 doesnt mean that they will throw away J10s and J11Bs. Same is the case for Australian Superhornets and European fighter jets. They will be very much in action and dog fighting and Within visual range combat will always be there. Future will be about net-centric warefare which our forces are rehearsing right now.

Especially in these troubling times we need to stick with this project of ours even if it means to have lower squadron strength for 2-3 years. We have enough strength in us already to keep our enemies at bay. None can invade us just because we are 3 squadrons weaker. Just hang on and finish Tejas. It is not just about pride, it will help create a real platform for us (most of it is done already) for our future AMCA. We will have a R&D Curve that will be less steeper to climb and Tejas platform will also help us absorb much needed know hows from MMRCA offsets and FGFA experience.

(About FGFA, in all likelihood we will get single and two seat FGFAs and not PAKFA. FGFA will be a lighter cousin and as always we have emphasized using own own avionics with help from Israel. HAL will work with Sukhoi on the modifications needed in design for FGFA. We will develop improved composites, Flight control Systems and Computer which will be used on PAKFA also. This is what they meant when they said HAL will have 25% workshare)

*This is just based on my observance on various forums, views and interpretations of people and I have given what made sense to me.

 

[nitesh]

See galaxy, if you want to get in to the mode of these are good, but we need more numbers more quantity. What if have x numbers, but we need x+... it could have been better. These arguments never goes to logical conclusion. Every force goes through ups and downs. The numbers of jets is increasing at the pace planned, IAF never planned for 2-3 squadrons per year of MKI (at least I have not seen such news), as you are so passionately arguing. There is an increase in modern aircraft in IAF's inventory, no denying the fact. That will be incremental not exponential, you can not help it. No point in just throwing off some numbers, and arguing based on that

 

[Galaxy]

See galaxy, if you want to get in to the mode of these are good, but we need more numbers more quantity. What if have x numbers, but we need x+... it could have been better. These arguments never goes to logical conclusion. Every force goes through ups and downs.

On several occasion, IAF top officials said "We need minimum 39.5 squadron for 2 front conflict". As of now we have merely 30 squadron in which 17 are 40-50 year old MIG 21,27 and Jaguar. Even 6 squadron of MIG29 & MIRAGE are still need to be upgraded. So, We have maximum 13 squadron including 7 MKI. This is pathetic all time low. We never had so less quality squadron since 70's. Number should be double minimum. There is no logic of x+ or Y+, It should be 40 squadron in which minimum 3/4th as 4th generation and we are decade behind. Are we going to fight with these 13 squadron against 50 odd squadron ?? The planning might be good but it's very slow.

The numbers of jets is increasing at the pace planned, IAF never planned for 2-3 squadrons per year of MKI (at least I have not seen such news), as you are so passionately arguing. There is an increase in modern aircraft in IAF's inventory, no denying the fact. That will be incremental not exponential, you can not help it. No point in just throwing off some numbers, and arguing based on that

Unfortunately, Number is not increasing. In Last 15 years, Only 150 fighter jets inducted and 150 decommissioned and around 300 more to be decommissioned soon but still flying as no other option. We are still flying 300 MIG21,27 which should have been decommissioned a decade back. This is what you call planned ?? There is neither any increase nor any proper planning.

MMRCA is pending for last 6 years and another 6 years for 2 squadron.
Tejas is pending for last decade and another 6 years for 1st MK2.
MKI rate 12 per year. It should be around 20 as we need more quality fighter jets.
MIRAGE M2k upgradation in 10 years in 3+ bn $. In that price we could have bought 40 MIG29/MKI more.

IAF may have 15 year plan as usual, But too much of delay has made IAF strength weak as of now. It will take another decade to come as per sanctioned sq of 39.5 by IAF.

 

[Galaxy]

Tejas lands in Goa ,for Weapons trials

November 23, 2011

Sources close to idrw.org have confirmed that , four Tejas aircraft's have landed in Naval INS Hansa air base in Goa recently , Tejas aircrafts which have arrived are Prototype Vehicle-3 (PV3) ,Limited-Series-Production (LSP) aircraft 2, 4 and 5.

second phase of the weapon trials have begun recently and Tejas along with four aircraft's carried out for the first time, precision-dropping of 1,000 kg bombs at designated stationary ground targets using its laser designator pod for target acquisition in Jaisalmer test range.

Aircraft's were supposed to arrive at end of last month , but was delayed for few weeks , top sources have confirmed that Tejas will be based in Goa for a week and air-to-air close combat missile will be test-fired from Tejas aircraft.

last time when Tejas was in Goa had test fired R-73 air-to-air close combat missile , this time the missile will have a target to aim ,unlike last time when the missile fired was un-guided and had no target and test was done to check effects of the missile firing on the aircraft .

spotter of lca-tejas.org , informed that he had seen ADA officials along with Naval officers in Vasco city (INS Hansa base ), he also confirmed meeting a Tejas Test pilot from the National Flight Test Centre (NFTC) doing quick shopping in Vasco market . pilot confirmed the spotter about their presence , but didn't disclose any further information . Pilot was carrying special " Tejas " patch on this left arm.

Sources also confirmed that on first week of Dec , Tejas aircraft's again will head straight to Leh to further carry out hot-and-cold weather trial , after brief stop over in Jaisalmer .on LSP-7 first flight is expected to be carried out in next few weeks , most probable in next month .

 

[p2prada]

(About FGFA, in all likelihood we will get single and two seat FGFAs and not PAKFA. FGFA will be a lighter cousin and as always we have emphasized using own own avionics with help from Israel. HAL will work with Sukhoi on the modifications needed in design for FGFA. We will develop improved composites, Flight control Systems and Computer which will be used on PAKFA also. This is what they meant when they said HAL will have 25% workshare)

*This is just based on my observance on various forums, views and interpretations of people and I have given what made sense to me.

The FGFA and PAKFA are one and the same. The project simply has different designations in both countries. While PAKFA was named FGFA, the AMCA was named NGFA in India.

BTW, stealth is not overrated. It is real.

 

[dev.uitda]

The FGFA and PAKFA are one and the same. The project simply has different designations in both countries. While PAKFA was named FGFA, the AMCA was named NGFA in India.

BTW, stealth is not overrated. It is real.

FGFA is not the same as PAKFA as we have a need for a twin seater and a single seater. So there will be substantial change (FGFA will be a bit longer) in airframe design to accommodate the second cockpit and avionics (Indo-Russian-Israel). FGFA will be lighter (3tonnes lesser with more advanced composites thereby requiring lesser thrust to supercruise). Both single and double seaters based on FGFA airframe will be procured from HAL. Configurations released so far :
General characteristics

PAKFA
Length: 19.8 m (65.9 ft)
Height: 6.05 m (19.8 ft)
Max takeoff weight: 37,000 kg (81,570 lb)
Ferry range: 5,500 km
Maximum speed: 2,100 - 2,500 km/h (Mach 2+)
Useful load: 7,500 kg (combat load) (16,534 lb)
Powerplant: 2 × AL-41F1 for prototypes turbofan, 1800kgf each
Fuel capability: 10,300 kg (22,711 lb)[81]

FGFA
Length 22.6 m
Height 5.9 m
MTOW 34 Ton
Range 3880 km
Speed 2 Mach
Max Weapon Load 2.25 Ton (Int.) & 5.75 Ton (Ext)
Thrust Vectoring With Jet Nozzle (±15 º)
Engine Thrust 2X1400 kgf

The aircrafts which the Russians are flying now are just technology demonstrators. The first will be used to monitor flight characteristics alone. The second had some avionics and they have finished the third one with an AESA radar. Definitive prototypes will start emerging after 2-4 years based on this platform, Meanwhile HAL hopes to develop FGFA based on technologies evolved for PAKFA platform.



Stealth is overrated, but just having a few stealth squadrons and rest with LO characteristics is good enough. I stand by it. It may be useful to launch a covert operation on a 3rd world country (if you imagined Abbotabad, I didnt say it ) but it wont be effective for deep strikes everywhere. Also it is very difficult to maintain. Now USAF has told US Congress that it costs $44000 per flight hour for the F-22. For a flight hour, it requires 34 hours of maintenance. The metallic stealth skin is also very susceptible to rain and dust making it hard to maintain and operate. Flat nozzles work upto an extent but 3d TVC on Mig29 is far more advanced and beneficial. All Stealth aircraft is like a new beautiful revolver with very less bullets. Numbers matter in defence and thats why Tejas mk2 and AMCA are important.

 

[p2prada]

We are inducting 166 PAKFAs and 48 FGFAs as of today. The PAKFAs are all the same version as the Russian one. The FGFA is the two seat version of the PAKFA. Design changes may be there, but it could be as different as the MKI and Su-35 and that's not much.

The specs you posted for PAKFA are journo figures, not real and not official. Those figures were reached by estimating height of people and vehicles already known and comparing to HD images of PAKFA. The figures for MTOW etc were taken from Flanker. The FGFA figures may be closer to the truth as it came from HAL, but it may be the same for PAKFA as well. BTW, the engine thrust figures are wrong for both.

 

[dev.uitda]

No buddy, HAL has released these specifications of FGFA officially, so thats what we got to trust now. HAL hasnt mentioned it as a twin seater which means they are tailoring it to IAF needs (both 1 and 2seat). Few months back they had set a deadline to freeze the design of FGFA in 18 months, so we can expect to see a flying tech demonstrator by 2014 and testing/induction will be relatively quicker as we will be integrating(this will be crucial anyway) evolved technologies. The engine thrust figures doesnt match PAKFA which re-emphasizes what Mr Naik said, FGFA will be lighter. What makes you think we will develop an entirely new airframe to build 48 twoseaters and will be foolish enough to buy PAKFA? It will be criminally uneconomical and wont happen. Both single and twin seaters will be of FGFA and We will use the technologies developed for the PAKFA and incorporate them into FGFA.

By seeing the numbers, we have different requirements from Russians I believe. They look like they want an air superiority fighter like raptor. Our numbers indicate our movement towards net centric warfare. Twin seat FGFA will be in every squadron (15 + 4/5), will act like a mini AEW&C EW platform and will plan and lead the missions as an extra pilot means an extra dimension to the aircraft.

 

[blueblood]

Design changes may be there, but it could be as different as the MKI and Su-35 and that's not much.
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[p2prada]

No buddy, HAL has released these specifications of FGFA officially, so thats what we got to trust now. HAL hasnt mentioned it as a twin seater which means they are tailoring it to IAF needs (both 1 and 2seat). Few months back they had set a deadline to freeze the design of FGFA in 18 months, so we can expect to see a flying tech demonstrator by 2014 and testing/induction will be relatively quicker as we will be integrating(this will be crucial anyway) evolved technologies.

A second PDC is to be signed so we will eventually know. A first flight by 2014 is highly unlikely IMO.
The FGFA specs are initial specs and perhaps they may be enough to get the gist of it. But PAKFA specs have not been released.

The engine thrust figures doesnt match PAKFA which re-emphasizes what Mr Naik said, FGFA will be lighter.

If you have a source claiming the same it would be helpful.

What makes you think we will develop an entirely new airframe to build 48 twoseaters and will be foolish enough to buy PAKFA? It will be criminally uneconomical and wont happen.

Actually we are. We are buying 166 Russian version of PAKFA. This is as recent as October.

IAF to induct 214 fifth generation fighter jets - India News - IBNLive

This says we will enter design phase only after PDC completion. Design phase will go on for for another 18 months after which prototypes are built for testing which may take between 10 and 20 months. Testing will take 2 to 3 years IMO as majority of tests will be done on PAKFA. So, that's 2017 for first flight at best and 2020 for IOC.

According to ACM we will get first PAKFA in 2017. That's pretty much after Russia has a squadron strength in operation.

Anyway it is too early to say if FGFA will be lighter. So, we can agree to disagree on that.