ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[SATISH]

Exactly..



IA already have its Air wing, What we need few squadrons of CAS aircrafts..

http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/showthread.php?t=1332&page=1
http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/showthread.php?t=15861&page=1
http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/showthread.php?t=14807&page=1

Actually we are talking about fixed wing aircrafts here....

 

[Rahul Singh]

Tejas Completes Drop Tank Jettison Trials

Dec 20, 2010

By Anantha Krishnan M.
BENGALURU, India

India's Tejas Light Combat Aircraft successfully completed a drop tank trial over the Aeronautical Test Range at Challakere in Chitradurga, near Bengaluru, on Dec. 17.

P.S. Subramanyam, chief of the Aeronautical Development Agency, tells Aviation Week that a 1,200-liter drop tank was jettisoned from a Tejas limited series production (LSP-3) aircraft piloted by Group Capt. Suneet Krishna.

"We flew a Tejas PV-2 as an escort to capture external video images of the drop tank trajectory after release," Subramanyam says. "Jettisonable drop tanks are critical for a fighter aircraft for getting on to a swift mission mode during emergency situations."

The theoretical predictions were further verified through "pit drop tests" conducted on a test specimen using a specially designed rig with part of the aircraft system and a high-speed photography system integrated with it. "The test cases covered a number of conditions such as empty, partial and full drop tanks, as well as different Ejector Release Unit settings," Subramanyam says.

The flight trials were planned by the National Flight Test Center (NFTC) in Bengaluru. "We looked into the safety from all angles. A review was conducted at NFTC to ensure all foreseeable safety issues were taken care of before embarking on this important test," a NFTC source says.

Indian media are keeping a close watch on the program, which has been hampered by time and cost overruns. With a Dec. 27 deadline looming to complete the certification process, ahead of its scheduled initial operational clearance (IOC), the focus now shifts to New Delhi for a crucial review, scheduled on Dec. 21.

The Indian air force (IAF) chief is expected to make a final decision on IOC at this meeting, which would signal IAF pilots to fly Tejas to check its handling qualities and other advanced features. This also will pave the way for its squadron formation sometime in mid-2011, by the time the remaining platforms (LSP-7 and LSP-8) would have joined the flight line.

Series production (SP) is expected to start next year. "The onus will then shift to Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. to stick to the delivery schedules and roll out the first SP block of 20 Tejas," a source says. "These fighters will get into the first squadron."

 

[Kunal Biswas]

 

[sathya]

nice tejas pictures ..
especially the rear view

 

[ppgj]

Alright...still am not convinced as I think that AMCA and AURA are far more valuable projects

well first of all it is a wish.

i agree that AMCA and AURA are valuable which can happen parallely. but twin engined LCA is not an obstacle considering the realistic timelines for AMCA and AURA.

infact a twin engined LCA will help ADA in building the AMCA which is also a twin engined project albeit with stealth features. besides the experience/lessons learnt and data acquired on the LCA will greatly help a faster, cost effective medium range class A/C with great RCS features due to the composite component of the design will equal if not outdo the 4.5 gen fighters of today. tiny LCA has to carry external pods like the LDP/SPJ on it's pylons which means one forgoes a missile or a bomb whereas a scaled up version can internalise both leaving the pylons free for ammunition. it can turn out into a DPSA with great range with a great payload carrying capability. the internal volume of fuel will allow it a great range besides with drop tanks/IFR.

in any case MMRCA fighter selected at a great cost will be in the process of being implemented which at the end will not arrest the falling numbers of IAF. a later simultaneous induction of scaled up LCA will peg the MMRCA numbers to 126 giving a great boost to the indian designers who will put their acquired knowledge to good use via 2 engined version, a step which would help AMCA and not the other way round.

when compared to an upgraded twin engine model of LCA. And who gave you the idea that having a twin engine will be easier to make?

sir i did not say it is easier. i said it is easier compared to a whole new design because of all the empirical data obtained wrt to LCA design, production and tests.

It makes the aircraft tail-heavy for starters, and a lot of wing planform design and control surface design changes must be made.

obviously. that should and would be taken care of. CG is always a major factor in any design. 5 year time should be good enough IMO.

not speaking of tail heavy factor - FBW is meant for unstable platforms. the fact that Rahul brought to notice in one of his posts (#823) of assymetric loading (he was referring to the "drop tank" test of LCA) only emphasises the maturity of FBW and CLAW on the LCA.

it won't be as lengthy process as with a totally new design. for ex, Mirage 4000 was sanctioned in 1976 and flew in 1979. this was possible as it was an upgrade of Mirage 2000.

The decision to launch work on the production of a twin-engine aircraft concurrently with the single-engine Mirage 2000 was taken by the authorities in September 1976. Since the Mirage 4000 is a technological upgrade of the Mirage 2000 (except the front part of the aircraft which is equipped with a fixed canard ancillary wing, dismountable and adjustable in flight) – the design and construction of the two new aircraft were carried out simultaneously.

http://www.dassault-aviation.com/en/passion/aircraft/military-dassault-aircraft/mirage-4000.html?L=1

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...a=X&ei=L6gRTd6xKIXtrQfYh6iGDA&ved=0CBsQ9QEwAg

Next you need to change the air intake shape so as to provide proper air into the engines.

even LCA mark 2 would have to go thro' that due to the high by pass F 414. so the expertise exists.

The delta crank must be adjusted in order to accommodate the flight control laws and so on and so forth.

i would think the LCA developers who have created the baby and written the CLAW controlled by the FBW for it would be aware of it.

Now you still think that you need a twin engine? this is just the tip of the iceberg that I have told you. There is a lot more to aircraft design than it meets the eye.

would it be greater than AMCA?? if ADA finds it ok to take up stealth aircraft which would be 5th gen, i guess it would be much easier for scaling up the LCA with 2 engines.

btw irrespective of whatever i said it is - as i said in the beginning a wish which i think is doable for good.

 

[icecoolben]

well first of all it is a wish.

i agree that AMCA and AURA are valuable which can happen parallely. but twin engined LCA is not an obstacle considering the realistic timelines for AMCA and AURA.

infact a twin engined LCA will help ADA in building the AMCA which is also a twin engined project albeit with stealth features. besides the experience/lessons learnt and data acquired on the LCA will greatly help a faster, cost effective medium range class A/C with great RCS features due to the composite component of the design will equal if not outdo the 4.5 gen fighters of today. tiny LCA has to carry external pods like the LDP/SPJ on it's pylons which means one forgoes a missile or a bomb whereas a scaled up version can internalise both leaving the pylons free for ammunition. it can turn out into a DPSA with great range with a great payload carrying capability. the internal volume of fuel will allow it a great range besides with drop tanks/IFR.

in any case MMRCA fighter selected at a great cost will be in the process of being implemented which at the end will not arrest the falling numbers of IAF. a later simultaneous induction of scaled up LCA will peg the MMRCA numbers to 126 giving a great boost to the indian designers who will put their acquired knowledge to good use via 2 engined version, a step which would help AMCA and not the other way round.



sir i did not say it is easier. i said it is easier compared to a whole new design because of all the empirical data obtained wrt to LCA design, production and tests.



obviously. that should and would be taken care of. CG is always a major factor in any design. 5 year time should be good enough IMO.

not speaking of tail heavy factor - FBW is meant for unstable platforms. the fact that Rahul brought to notice in one of his posts (#823) of assymetric loading (he was referring to the "drop tank" test of LCA) only emphasises the maturity of FBW and CLAW on the LCA.

it won't be as lengthy process as with a totally new design. for ex, Mirage 4000 was sanctioned in 1976 and flew in 1979. this was possible as it was an upgrade of Mirage 2000.



http://www.dassault-aviation.com/en/passion/aircraft/military-dassault-aircraft/mirage-4000.html?L=1

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...a=X&ei=L6gRTd6xKIXtrQfYh6iGDA&ved=0CBsQ9QEwAg



even LCA mark 2 would have to go thro' that due to the high by pass F 414. so the expertise exists.



i would think the LCA developers who have created the baby and written the CLAW controlled by the FBW for it would be aware of it.



would it be greater than AMCA?? if ADA finds it ok to take up stealth aircraft which would be 5th gen, i guess it would be much easier for scaling up the LCA with 2 engines.

btw irrespective of whatever i said it is - as i said in the beginning a wish which i think is doable for good.

As far as a twin-engines Tejas programme is concerned, it is naieve to compare it to Mirage-2000 and mirage 4000. Dassalt is a private enterprise, which sunk its own money to develop mirage 4k in response to cater to market demand from saudi air force for non US fighter complimenting F-15/F-16. The offer was like the Mig-35 offer for us now on a larger scale. The saudis made a sensible choice to purchase Tornados instead.

In our context, HAL is a public enterprise. HAL if profits, after salary money is taken to Delhi sarkar for budgetting. If running at loss, audit is done and liquidity infusion made, along with pauper orders to help it stay afloat. In reality, HAL is run by Babus who don't care about market demand or spending just to develop technology. A project how miniusle has to be sanctioned by GOI to build. Than sanction does not come mearly by justification for scientific research, it has to accompanied by cost benefit analysis of political mileage, requirement of IAF etc etc. Due to too many factors, scientific endeavors are killed by public enterprises and switched over to DRDO which doesn't have any capability to build. It can only conceptualise and build miniature models.

If you really want to build a twin engined tejas go to IIT madras and join as a professor, gather a bunch of enthusiastic students and work on Phd for 10 years. After building the model, u can ask IAF instructors from tambaram to fly the machine. U can't fly it on your own either even if built by HAL.

 

[ppgj]

As far as a twin-engines Tejas programme is concerned, it is naieve to compare it to Mirage-2000 and mirage 4000.

who is comparing them. i took at as an example which could be adopted.

Dassalt is a private enterprise, which sunk its own money to develop mirage 4k in response to cater to market demand from saudi air force for non US fighter complimenting F-15/F-16. The offer was like the Mig-35 offer for us now on a larger scale. The saudis made a sensible choice to purchase Tornados instead.

so what it is your point?? only private enterprises can do that??

In our context, HAL is a public enterprise. HAL if profits, after salary money is taken to Delhi sarkar for budgetting. If running at loss, audit is done and liquidity infusion made, along with pauper orders to help it stay afloat. In reality, HAL is run by Babus who don't care about market demand or spending just to develop technology. A project how miniusle has to be sanctioned by GOI to build. Than sanction does not come mearly by justification for scientific research, it has to accompanied by cost benefit analysis of political mileage, requirement of IAF etc etc. Due to too many factors, scientific endeavors are killed by public enterprises and switched over to DRDO which doesn't have any capability to build. It can only conceptualise and build miniature models.

it has nothing to do with private or public. it is the requirements put in by the user which would determine that. in this case IAF has not wished it so it won't happen but what has my wish (which was highlighted in my post) got to do with it??

people in the forums do bring such ideas to the forum which are debated. this is one such. if you are not interested you can ignore.

If you really want to build a twin engined tejas go to IIT madras and join as a professor, gather a bunch of enthusiastic students and work on Phd for 10 years. After building the model, u can ask IAF instructors from tambaram to fly the machine. U can't fly it on your own either even if built by HAL.

well thanks for the great advice. i hope you are advising the IAF chief the same wrt AMCA because he wants it. he is also neither a professor nor a designer. also i hope you would keep that in mind while bringing in any fresh idea here or anywhere.

i hope you know the difference between a civilian/user/designers. if everybody wishing a new machine have to become professors/aero engineers/developers, india would be full of them more than users. wonderful isn't it??

 

[SATISH]

well first of all it is a wish.

i agree that AMCA and AURA are valuable which can happen parallely. but twin engined LCA is not an obstacle considering the realistic timelines for AMCA and AURA.

infact a twin engined LCA will help ADA in building the AMCA which is also a twin engined project albeit with stealth features. besides the experience/lessons learnt and data acquired on the LCA will greatly help a faster, cost effective medium range class A/C with great RCS features due to the composite component of the design will equal if not outdo the 4.5 gen fighters of today. tiny LCA has to carry external pods like the LDP/SPJ on it's pylons which means one forgoes a missile or a bomb whereas a scaled up version can internalise both leaving the pylons free for ammunition. it can turn out into a DPSA with great range with a great payload carrying capability. the internal volume of fuel will allow it a great range besides with drop tanks/IFR.

in any case MMRCA fighter selected at a great cost will be in the process of being implemented which at the end will not arrest the falling numbers of IAF. a later simultaneous induction of scaled up LCA will peg the MMRCA numbers to 126 giving a great boost to the indian designers who will put their acquired knowledge to good use via 2 engined version, a step which would help AMCA and not the other way round.



sir i did not say it is easier. i said it is easier compared to a whole new design because of all the empirical data obtained wrt to LCA design, production and tests.



obviously. that should and would be taken care of. CG is always a major factor in any design. 5 year time should be good enough IMO.

not speaking of tail heavy factor - FBW is meant for unstable platforms. the fact that Rahul brought to notice in one of his posts (#823) of assymetric loading (he was referring to the "drop tank" test of LCA) only emphasises the maturity of FBW and CLAW on the LCA.

it won't be as lengthy process as with a totally new design. for ex, Mirage 4000 was sanctioned in 1976 and flew in 1979. this was possible as it was an upgrade of Mirage 2000.



http://www.dassault-aviation.com/en/passion/aircraft/military-dassault-aircraft/mirage-4000.html?L=1

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...a=X&ei=L6gRTd6xKIXtrQfYh6iGDA&ved=0CBsQ9QEwAg



even LCA mark 2 would have to go thro' that due to the high by pass F 414. so the expertise exists.



i would think the LCA developers who have created the baby and written the CLAW controlled by the FBW for it would be aware of it.



would it be greater than AMCA?? if ADA finds it ok to take up stealth aircraft which would be 5th gen, i guess it would be much easier for scaling up the LCA with 2 engines.

btw irrespective of whatever i said it is - as i said in the beginning a wish which i think is doable for good.

You are laying too much emphasis and trust in FBW which is not the case. The Tail heavy aircraft will have huge problems while redesignin gthe FBW and programming it and suitable programs must be written for the MC. There will be a lt more software changes as to accomodate. As you see the Mirage 4000 was cancelled because it was not found to be worthwhile an effort. The Mirage 4000 did have canards so as to keep the nose from pitching up which is a charecteristic of tail heavy aircrafts. Whatever you do there are limitations for every airframe.

We have gained enough experience in 4th generation aircraft programmes when working on the LCA and a twin engine LCA is of no use when the world is moving away to fifth generation. Designing a twin engine MCA will only give more trouble. 5 years is not enough for designing, manufacturing and deploying a twin engine aircraft as all its performances will totally differ.Instead we can directly invest in the AMCA project. We already have ordered the MMRCA to fill in that slot.

 

[ppgj]

You are laying too much emphasis and trust in FBW which is not the case. The Tail heavy aircraft will have huge problems while redesignin gthe FBW and programming it and suitable programs must be written for the MC. There will be a lt more software changes as to accomodate.

i think you are taking my FBW comment out of context. check my post. i emphasised -

not speaking of tail heavy factor - FBW is meant for unstable platforms. the fact that Rahul brought to notice in one of his posts (#823) of assymetric loading (he was referring to the "drop tank" test of LCA) only emphasises the maturity of FBW and CLAW on the LCA.

i was not connecting the tail heavy factor to FBW and did mention CG factor. then i went on to add the maturity of FBW on the LCA quoting Rahul post.

ofcourse i agree CLAW algorithm will have to be re written to suit the additional needs and the necessary software changes for the FBW etc.. i honestly feel the designers would be competent enough to take care of it for the simple reason they jumped straight to 4th gen and kept it open architecture to keep it current for future too.

As you see the Mirage 4000 was cancelled because it was not found to be worthwhile an effort. The Mirage 4000 did have canards so as to keep the nose from pitching up which is a charecteristic of tail heavy aircrafts. Whatever you do there are limitations for every airframe.

no it was a worthwhile effort but french had already moved on to Rafale. infact Mirage 4k was useful guide for the rafale.

We have gained enough experience in 4th generation aircraft programmes when working on the LCA and a twin engine LCA is of no use when the world is moving away to fifth generation. Designing a twin engine MCA will only give more trouble. 5 years is not enough for designing, manufacturing and deploying a twin engine aircraft as all its performances will totally differ.Instead we can directly invest in the AMCA project. We already have ordered the MMRCA to fill in that slot.

Dassault did it in 3 yrs. 5 year time for ADA would IMO be good enough.

anyway this was a wish or an idea which was floated. i agree to disagree and rest my case here. thanks for the observations which i respect.

 

[p2prada]

Dassault did it in 3 yrs. 5 year time for ADA would IMO be good enough.

Dassault did it in 3 years only because the program ran in parallel to the M2K program. ADA wouldn't do it even after a 100 years solely because all of our design engineers will be more involved with AMCA rather than a LCA 2. Weneither have enough scientists and engineers for the job nor the money.

 

[gogbot]

Dassault did it in 3 years only because the program ran in parallel to the M2K program. ADA wouldn't do it even after a 100 years solely because all of our design engineers will be more involved with AMCA rather than a LCA 2. Weneither have enough scientists and engineers for the job nor the money.

I agree with your assessment.

ADA is already stretching it with work on the MKII and AMCA.
Delivering both of them without delay and on time will be an achievement in on itself.
I would rather see them do that , than develop a twin engine LCA.

 

[utubekhiladi]

LCA to be inducted next month
​

After three decades of development, the first squadron of indigenous light combat aircraft (LCA) Tejas is all set to be inducted into the Indian Air Force(IAF) next month.

The first Tejas squadron will receive its initial operational clearance at a function on January 10, catapulting India to a select club of nations that built a fighter plane from scratch. The historic first squadron will be stationed at Sulur near Coimbatore, sources said. Defence Minister A Kantony will be present at the function.

Even though the development began in 1983, the first LCA technology demonstrator flew only in 2001. Four years later, the IAF placed the first order of 20 Tejas at a cost of Rs 2,700 crore. Subsequently, it placed an order for another squadron.

The second LCA squadron will be stationed at Kayathir near Tuticorin, where the IAF is developing a new fighter base. The small World War II base will be converted into a major aviation hub in a few years.

After receiving the initial operational clearance, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) will manufacture the first 20 Tejas aircraft in two batches of 10 planes each.

So far, HAL has manufactured two technology demonstrators, five prototypes and 28 limited series production aircraft with imported engine. However, HAL will continue to upgrade the indigenous fighter as the IAF plans to induct close to 200 LCAs and 20 twin seater trainer versions in the long run.

Along with the 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft and fifth generation fighter aircraft LCA will be one of the mainstay planes of the IAF in the coming decades. The mark I planes will be inducted by 2014.

The mark II version of the LCA with a more powerful engine, better aerodynamics and advanced avionics is also under development. The naval version of the LCA, to be used in aircraft carriers, are also under development. Most of the delay in the LCA programme was due to the technical difficulties and resource crunch faced by the research team under defence research and development organisation.

The problem was compounded by the sanctioned imposed by the US in 1998 following Pokhran II. All of a sudden, scientists found that the door was shut on them and many key components and equipment needed for producing a fighter plane was simply not available. Subsequently, they had to develop those sub-systems as well.

The booming IT industry in Bangalore and Hyderabad also contributed to the woes of the LCA team with many young and mid-career engineers and technical hands leaving the LCA industry in search of greener pastures.

Only after placing the order in 2005 that the IAF stationed a 14-member LCA induction team, headed by an Air Vice Marshal in Bangalore to steer the indigenous fighter to its destination.

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/122938/lca-inducted-next-month.html

 

[warriorextreme]

So far, HAL has manufactured two technology demonstrators, five prototypes and 28 limited series production aircraft with imported engine. However, HAL will continue to upgrade the indigenous fighter as the IAF plans to induct close to 200 LCAs and 20 twin seater trainer versions in the long run.

i didnt know that there were 28 LSPs

 

[icecoolben]

i didnt know that there were 28 LSPs

What he may have meant to say was 28 LSP are in various stages of production, some may be in assembly, some may be in component stage, some in raw material stage. But 28 production in ongoing.

I wonder if the next 20 being held up due to IAF not sanctioning money. Look closely there is no price quoted and this was a report from Aug 23, 2010.

India To Order 20 Tejas Mk. 1s

Aug 23, 2010




By Asia-Pacific Staff
New Delhi

With initial operational clearance (IOC) in sight, the Indian air force will soon order 20 more Tejas Mk.1 Light Combat Aircraft, bringing its total order for the Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. fighter to 48 to equip two inaugural squadrons.

The total figure includes eight limited-series-production (LSP) fighters that will be handed over to the air force shortly after IOC is achieved. Five LSP versions of the fighter are flying now, with the next three to follow before December.

The air force had initially hoped that its second order would be for the proposed Tejas Mk.2, powered by either the General Electric F414-GE-400 or the Eurojet EJ200. However, the engine decision has slowed to such an extent that the service has decided to settle for 20 more of the Mk.1s powered by the lower-thrust F404-GE-IN20 turbojet. Deliveries of the 40 aircraft are to occur in 2011-15.

Starting early in 2011, the air force is slated to receive eight LSP aircraft, which will be based in Bangalore for acceptance trials and induction routines by the same air force team embedded with Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL) to test the airplanes. Deliveries of the Mk.1 version—identical to the fifth LSP aircraft—will follow toward the end of 2011.

Questioned about the program's huge delays, India's defense minister, A.K. Antony, told Parliament late last month that "it needed to incorporate a number of new technologies and systems."

The air force eventually intends to procure more than 200 Tejas fighters.

A senior air force officer recently revealed that both engines being pitched for the Tejas Mk.2 have met or exceeded thrust requirements and a decision will be made within the year.

Moreover, he indicates that the engine change is not straightforward. Despite what both contenders have claimed, he notes that choosing either engine would mean changes to the Tejas aft fuselage and possibly intakes, as well.

Eurojet officials have asserted that their engine will involve only some changes to the engine's mounting assembly, a different hydraulic pump and another generator pack. In addition, engine interfaces might need alterations, depending on how the LCA is configured.

The Tejas program aims to achieve IOC by December, ahead of final operational clearance a year later.

The first Tejas squadron will be established at a peninsular air base in Sulur, Tamil Nadu, and fall under the southern air command. Sulur is to be the first of several fighter bases being either refurbished or built in the south.

The second Tejas squadron is likely to be based in Sulur as well or at Kayathar, a World War II-era British airfield that the air force plans to develop into a full-fledged fighter base. Work is underway at both locations on new runways, upgraded air traffic control towers and navigational aids. The two bases will also have full-service HAL maintenance facilities to ease the Tejas into operational service. In the coming decade, the Tejas is almost certain to be colocated with the winner of the $12-billion Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft competition.

Air force officials indicate that the aircraft first will be positioned at the Aircraft and Systems Testing Establishment in Bangalore for a year or more to iron out teething troubles and maintenance hurdles. The air force must then determine how to gradually replace its MiG-21 fleet with the Tejas. The first two Tejas squadrons will almost surely have a strictly limited operational profile, serving more to facilitate doctrine and operational envelope exploitation activity and paving the way for the Tejas Mk.2.

 

[icecoolben]

Indian press needs to cultivate specialised journalists with technical background

HereS another example of Indian crappy amateurish journalism at its analytical best

Since it involves Tejas programme I'm pasting it here, with patriots like these who needs enemies from accross the border.

Can LCA Tejas Do the Job?
The LCA Tejas has been lauded a lot by the media and government. But will it be formidable in skies if a war breaks out in near future?
Can LCA Tejas Do the Job?
Enlarge Image
Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas is the most talked about indigenous aircraft being developed in India by the HAL. It's a 4.5 generation aircraft and also has an element of stealth as its radar signature is very small because of its size and shape. If the design is to be considered, it's absolutely brilliant. But, the question is, 'can it perform the tough job of protecting the Indian skies?'

Well, seems not in the current scenario. There are several reasons behind this; the first being its speed. Though the HAL says that it can reach Mach 2; the top speed of Tejas recorded till date is only Mach 1.3. It sounds nice, but is dead slow to dodge an incoming missile flying at speed of nearly Mach 4. The average speeds of other 4.5 generation aircraft are above Mach 2.2. So, if the aircraft runs out of ammunition during a combat, it has no way to escape.

Speed of an aircraft plays a crucial role in a dogfight too. From the very beginning of aerial warfare, continuous efforts are being made to produce a faster and more maneuverable aircraft. And history says faster aircraft have always won. So, in the era of fifth generation fighters that can reach supersonic speeds even without using their afterburners, can Tejas survive?

If we talk about advanced avionics, they surely increase performance in fighting, but in desperate situations, the pilots have to go back to the basics. Slow speed affects the performance of Tejas in many areas. Tejas is a light category aircraft. This means it cannot carry much armament for beyond visual range (BVR) combat. The pilot will have to switch to its 23 mm twin-barreled GSh cannon in an intense fight. Here speed and maneuverability play their part.

Initially, the Tejas was to be fitted with indigenously built GTRE GTX-35VS Kaveri engine, but the Kaveri program has been marred by many technical and financial difficulties. Very less has been revealed to public regarding actual difficulties in development of Kaveri, but it is known that the engine has a tendency to throw turbine blades. Because of this, blades and digital engine control systems had to be procured from French manufacturer SNECMA. After Kaveri failed high altitude test in Russia in mid-2004, Tejas was fitted with General Electric F404-GE-IN20 engine, but the HAL said that all production aircraft will be fitted with Kaveri engines and the technical faults in the engine will be corrected very soon.

As technical flaws continued to occur, in 2008, it was formally announced that Kaveri engine will not be ready for Tejas in time and an in-production powerplant will have to be purchased from foreign companies. The contenders are likely to be the Eurojet EJ200 and the General Electric F414 engines. But the selection process will take its time and till then the first operational squadron of Tejas will be fitted with the GE F404 engine. The F404 engine cannot provide enough thrust to Tejas for combat maneuvers, thus restricting speed and ability to fight.

Another weakness of Tejas is lack of thrust vectoring. It's not that the Tejas is not agile, but here we are talking about 'super maneuverability' which is essential now-a-days. Super maneuverability is achieved by directing the thrust developed by engine in required direction (thrust vectoring). With the help of it, an aircraft can perform almost impossible maneuvers.

The Sukhoi Su-30 MKI currently serving in the Indian Air Force has the most perfect thrust vectoring system ever built. The aircraft remains highly maneuverable even at very high angles of attack and near-zero speeds without stalling. It is feared as well as respected all over the world for this quality. But, with no sufficient speed and lack of super maneuverability, Tejas will be a sitting duck for enemy fighters.

It's not the first time when a brilliant design by HAL is lagging behind just because of lack of a powerful engine. The same thing had happened with HAL HF-24 Marut, the first supersonic aircraft built in India. Designed by legendary designer Kurt Tank, the Marut could never be used to its complete potential just because of lack of thrust. HAL should have had taken a lesson from it in the development of Kaveri engine, which was powerful enough to give Tejas supercruise ability. However, it also lacked thrust vectoring.

Third and the most important factor is time being taken to complete the project. The LCA project is already delayed a lot because of the snags in Kaveri engine. It is still undergoing trials and may take several more years to enter full production. The absence of a perfectly suitable engine is contributing in making the things even worse. Even if it is inducted in the air force within two or three years, it will be equipped with the inefficient GE F404 engine. So, it is possible that it may not be able to deliver its best when it is needed the most.

The LCA project shows a clear picture of government's casual approach towards defense research and development. After independence, India has built only two indigenous fighter aircraft and only one tank. India is currently facing a tough challenge of curbing the ever increasing cross-border terrorism and the Naxal menace within. Apart from this, there's always a threat from our hostile neighbor. In these circumstances, the government should have paid more attention towards defense projects. Let's hope that they take a lesson from the LCA project and don't repeat the same mistakes in the development of new fifth generation fighter. Amen.

By Shreyas Holay
Published: 7/8/2010

And a good comment

Only Tejas PV-1 can accept Kaveri engine. Whether u can understand or not, F404 IN20 is the engine of Tejas, it now delivers 85 kn of thrust. With a firm commitment of 80 Tejas mk-1 orders if GE is given orders for 80 engines they can make an improved 90 kn variant with technlogy and components developed for F414 engine.

First any knowledgeble aviation specialist can tell u that BVR missiles are essentially for air defence or fighter escort, a fighter aircraft in such configuration never carries more than 2000 kgs of payload, while Tejas mk-1 has capacity to carry 4000+ kg of weapons load. LCA has payload capacity better than mig-21 (2 tons) it replaces, these mig-21 themselves carry R-77 BVR missiles. Just because U haven't seen a report of Tejas testing BVR doesn't mean, it cannnot. BVR tests with Derby missiles will be done shortly pls wait till then. R-77 integratin will take time due to rewriting souce codes to ensure compatibility between R-77 and El-2032 processor.

When Chobam designs and fits refueller on Tejas mk-1, it can defeinitely be postioned in airbases that stand hugging front lines with pakistan. A low wingloading means , higher lift for given thrust compared to other aircraft in its class, which gives a short field capability. As far as the 1.3 is concerned, LSP-6 will be equipped to open the flight profile of airframe to the design specifications like mach 2 and 28deg angle of attack.
Do u even know what mach number stands for?
Difference between velocity, speed, reynolds number and mach number?

Get your articles evaluated by an aeronautical engineer before getting into technical aspects of an aircraft. U amateur journalists are a sham produced by this hyper active media.

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/can-lca-tejas-do-the-job.html

 

[link16]

This message has been deleted by Daredevil.
Reason
Such low standard articles not allowed

ONLY praise is high standard

 

[warriorextreme]

are we considering to build new production facility for MK-1 and MK-2 in near future??

 

[neo29]

LCA to be inducted next month

After three decades of development, the first squadron of indigenous light combat aircraft (LCA) Tejas is all set to be inducted into the Indian Air Force(IAF) next month.
The first Tejas squadron will receive its initial operational clearance at a function on January 10, catapulting India to a select club of nations that built a fighter plane from scratch. The historic first squadron will be stationed at Sulur near Coimbatore, sources said. Defence Minister A Kantony will be present at the function.

Even though the development began in 1983, the first LCA technology demonstrator flew only in 2001. Four years later, the IAF placed the first order of 20 Tejas at a cost of Rs 2,700 crore. Subsequently, it placed an order for another squadron.

The second LCA squadron will be stationed at Kayathir near Tuticorin, where the IAF is developing a new fighter base. The small World War II base will be converted into a major aviation hub in a few years.

After receiving the initial operational clearance, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) will manufacture the first 20 Tejas aircraft in two batches of 10 planes each.

So far, HAL has manufactured two technology demonstrators, five prototypes and 28 limited series production aircraft with imported engine. However, HAL will continue to upgrade the indigenous fighter as the IAF plans to induct close to 200 LCAs and 20 twin seater trainer versions in the long run.

Along with the 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft and fifth generation fighter aircraft LCA will be one of the mainstay planes of the IAF in the coming decades. The mark I planes will be inducted by 2014.

The mark II version of the LCA with a more powerful engine, better aerodynamics and advanced avionics is also under development. The naval version of the LCA, to be used in aircraft carriers, are also under development. Most of the delay in the LCA programme was due to the technical difficulties and resource crunch faced by the research team under defence research and development organisation.

The problem was compounded by the sanctioned imposed by the US in 1998 following Pokhran II. All of a sudden, scientists found that the door was shut on them and many key components and equipment needed for producing a fighter plane was simply not available. Subsequently, they had to develop those sub-systems as well.

The booming IT industry in Bangalore and Hyderabad also contributed to the woes of the LCA team with many young and mid-career engineers and technical hands leaving the LCA industry in search of greener pastures.

Only after placing the order in 2005 that the IAF stationed a 14-member LCA induction team, headed by an Air Vice Marshal in Bangalore to steer the indigenous fighter to its destination.

http://idrw.org/?p=1945

 

[virus]

IAF considering to buy 20 more LCA Mk1 version:says HAL chaiman

IAF considering to buy 20 more LCA Mk1 version:says HAL chaiman​

What is the update on the current projects at Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd?
We are manufacturing 140 plus 40 Su-30MKI for the Indian Air Force. So far we have produced around 80 aircraft and we are on schedule this year on this programme. In addition, the IAF will be getting 42 more aircraft, which is also progressing satisfactorily.

Hawk Advanced Jet Trainer is the other major programme. The problems during the initial stages have been overcome and the production process is now progressing smoothly. As you know, we have recently signed the contract for 57 additional Hawks, 40 for the IAF and 17 for the Indian Navy. We do not anticipate any delays in this programme. The other programme on the anvil is Dornier, where we have the order for 16 aircraft from the Indian Coast Guard. We are slightly ahead on this programme and hope to get an order for two aircraft from Seychelles. In addition, the Dornier upgrade programme of 28 aircraft for the IAF is also moving smoothly.

Apart from this, we have received a major order for 73 Intermediate Jet Trainers for the IAF in April 2010. Regarding the Advanced Light Helicopter, around 20 machines have been built as of date. There has been some delay in this project and we hope to overcome this in the next few weeks. We hope to deliver the first few ALH utility version to the Indian Army and the IAF soon. The next programme is the LCA. We are focussed on getting the IOC by December this year, so that we can deliver the aircraft as per the laid down delivery schedules. The IAF is contemplating to buy 20 more LCA (MkI) for which we are geared up.
http://www.forceindia.net/interview2.aspx

 

[icecoolben]

So what I suspected is true, it is IAF thats holding up orders?

I don't know how long this may go on this "second order drama" Livefist, media, ADA said in 2009 and now HAL is saying "any time now" but IAF remains unmoved. It is IAF thats the real culprit to be punished for Tejas Fiasco?