ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

Which role suits LCA 'Tejas' more than others from following options?

  • Interceptor-Defend Skies from Intruders.

    Votes: 342 51.3%
  • Airsuperiority-Complete control of the skies.

    Votes: 17 2.5%
  • Strike-Attack deep into enemy zone.

    Votes: 24 3.6%
  • Multirole-Perform multiple roles.

    Votes: 284 42.6%

  • Total voters
    667
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Austinjimson

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There are rotten Apples within air force who do not want tejas project to take off. These chaps only want kickbacks and doesn't work with HAL and ADA for development of tejas and doesn't care for building up domestic military industrial complex.

Sent from my GT-I8730 using Tapatalk
 

lcafanboy

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It could be that LCA Tejas MK2 is a completely new plane with 1 meter extended fuselage + 0.6 extended nose total length 14.76 meters, additional fuel tanks and GE 414 epe engine with 116KN thrust (Indian Navy is working on it and GE working on epe engine which is taking long) and it may take time to validate and test all parameters. So in the interim what they have come up with is LCA MK1.5 with extended nose 0.6 meter, AESA radar, EW suite, and GE 414 engine with 98KN thrust. Maybe DRDO is not revealing the true facts. Wish this is true since then the new plane could be very potent.
 

Bhadra

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LCA programme: India's Rs 10,397 crore disaster may finally be handed over to the private sector

http://www.msn.com/en-in/news/natio...er-to-the-private-sector/ar-AAcMDYq?ocid=iehp





© Provided by Firstpost

More than three decades after it was initiated, the Indian government's Light Combat Aircraft programme continues to flounder in uncertainty. The Economic Timeson Friday reported that the government is considering whether to hand over the project to the private sector. The cost of the project was initially slated to be Rs 575 crore but has since escalated to Rs 10,397 crore.

The Aeronautical Development Agency's (ADA) delays in delivery have only served to frustrate the government and the Indian Air Force. The CAG had also slammed the execution, saying that the Tejas MK I was unsafe. The claims that the first LCA Mk 2 prototype -- which will have the more powerful General Electric F414-GE-INS6 engines -- will conduct its maiden test flight in 2018-19 and go into series production three years later have also been treated with suspicion by the IAF.

According to a report in the IHS Jane's 360, "IAF officers question this timeline, as the LCA Mk 2's rear fuselage will need re-engineering to accommodate the heavier engine, thereby altering the fighter's air dynamics. They said this would necessitate time-consuming and technologically complex alterations to the platforms avionics and related systems to stabilise it, which could involve overseas consultants."

Series-production aircraft may cost India 1.6 billion rupees (US $25,220,512) each still a fraction the price of a Western fighter -- the 36 Rafale's would cost $4.5 billion -- but whether they will be the answer to the IAF's requirements is another issue altogether.

The ADA's delays have also meant that India have needed replacements in flyaway condition. A few days back, the IAF has informed the Ministry of Defence (MoD) that it needs an additional 44 Dassault Rafale fighters to supplement the 36 Rafales that India is negotiating to acquire.

The Indian Air Force's combat readiness is being severely affected by the delays. According to the latest Parliamentary Defence Committee report, the IAF's combat squadrons will total 25 by 2022, down from the authorised strength of 45 squadrons.

Here is a timeline of events leading up to this situation:

1983: In a bid to replace the ageing Russian-designed MiG-21 aircrafts, the government launched the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) programme. The programme was to be completed in eight to ten years.

1984: The government set up the Aeronautical Development Agency as the nodal agency to develop the LCA.

1986: An allocation of Rs 575 crores was made for the programme.

1987: The phase of project definition began, with French aircraft major Dassault Aviation as consultants.

1990: Design of LCA programme's aircraft was completed

1993: First full scale engineering development phase was sanctioned.

1995: LCA missed deadline for rollout of first aircraft by six months.

2001: First flight of the first aircraft was conducted in January. It missed the deadline of December 1996 by a long way.

2002: Second flight was conducted in June, misses deadline of September 1997.

2003: In November, first Prototype version (PV I) took off, misses deadline of December 1999.

2009: LCA aircraft Tejas completed 1000 flights.

January 2015- Defence minister Manohar Parrikar handed over Tejas aircraft to Indian Air Force.

May 2015- CAG report criticized project for delays and technical shortcomings.

--------------------------------------------------------------
 
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Compersion

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would prefer to have a new entity created that is a private company with investment from GOI (e.g. 51%+ share. e.g. ONGC has 68%) and the rest to private industry and even public. GOI share can be disinvestment over time and even listed on stock exchange if the entity is successful and for security reason (like a Maruti Suzuki experience but obviously with local private partner(s)). It would be good if 3-5 such private companies are created with technology "rented" by DRDO with "royalty". Have these 3-5 compete with one another and call them out by name. It will be ideal to have these listed on stock exchange since it brings about a certain level of transparency and leaders of these will perform to such indicators.

The private industry players (like Tatas, Mahindras, more) are good to have in defense but we still need to have a envelope above them and they are having specialism in many fields and cross matrix. It would be better if these invested in the 3-5 and not be one of the 3-5.

These 3-5 ought to dominate the defense landscape in India, the region and later the world. Each out to offer what the other offers with different specifications and in-house R&D and skills. For example if Tejas is given to all 3-5 each would develop differently. Do we have the market for large numbers to sustain these ... with Make In India we have to develop large number for employment and development!!
 

SajeevJino

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from the above link

An evaluation of the Tejas' combat capability must consider its flying performance, its avionics and the weapon load it carries. At IOC, it already flies at Mach 1.6 (2,000 kmph); operates up to 15,000 metres (50,000 feet); and carries 3,500 kg of mission payload, including weapons and sensors. Its combat radius is 300-350 km, which would be extended next year through in-flight refuelling. By FOC next year, this performance would be enhanced.
before that the article first published by Business Standard
 

Yumdoot

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From the above link the real pilots:
defencenews.in said:
The Tejas' capability is best known to the air force and navy test pilots in the National Flight Test Centre, who have tested it in 2,400 flights. They claim it may be more versatile than the MiG-29 (primarily built for air-to-air combat); the MiG-27 and the Jaguar (both oriented to ground strike); and all variants of the MiG-21, including the multi-role BISON.
+
defencenews.in said:
The Tejas' likely adversary, the Pakistan Air Force's F-16 fighter, has a slightly larger flight envelope, but the Tejas' superior avionics give it a combat edge over the PAF's older F-16A/Bs (currently being upgraded in Turkey); and superior to their new JF-17 Thunder light fighter, co-developed with China. Only the PAF's 18 new F-16C/D Block 52 fighters, flying since 2010-11 from Jacobabad, may be a match for the Tejas.
+
defencenews.in said:
Said an NFTC test pilot during the IOC ceremony on December 20: "As a multi-role fighter, the Tejas is at least the equal of the IAF's upgraded Mirage-2000. It can more than hold its own in our operational scenario."

.............................................................................................................................................



Meantime the old foggies giving Back Handed Compliments from the same site:
http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...-operational-clearance-delay-likely/29866213/

1.
defencenews.in said:
Kapil Kak, a retired Indian Air Force air vice marshal.
"FOC would most probably slip to sometime in 2016," Kak said. "But given the track record, these kind of slippages have over the years been accepted as par for the course."
2.
defencenews.in said:
"Weapons integration has been on for quite some time and the LCA has fired the R73 missile and laser-guided bombs during [the Air Force's] firepower demonstration in February 2014," said Daljit Singh, retired Air Force air marshal. "However, more weapons are required to be integrated. In addition to weapons integration, test flights are also required to integrate and test other avionics and systems.

"If the FOC fructifies as per stated specifications, it [the LCA Mark-1] would definitely be a better aircraft than the MiG-21," Singh said. "This would include air-to-air refuelling, navigation, compatibility, more capable missiles and better weapons carrying capability, integrated self-protection suite, much longer operational range , much better avionics, active flight control technology and communication systems."
3.
defencenews.in said:
Kak, however, is skeptical. "Unless one is a Don Quixote or delusional or part of the new crop of academics-journalists masquerading as air-power and force-structure experts of the [Indian Air Force], the envisaged 10 squadrons of LCA are unlikely to be fully operational before 2030 or so," he said. "This makes for the need of medium multirole combat aircraft or the equivalent even more critical."
4.
defencenews.in said:
Nirdosh Tyagi, retired Indian Air Force air marshal and former deputy service chief, agreed that the Mark-2's first flight is "nowhere close to realization.
Must be really painful to pass that stone!? :D Keeper of an article.

I don't know which of these the Test pilots or the Oldies to believe.

Do you?
 
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ersakthivel

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LCA programme: India's Rs 10,397 crore disaster may finally be handed over to the private sector

http://www.msn.com/en-in/news/natio...er-to-the-private-sector/ar-AAcMDYq?ocid=iehp





© Provided by Firstpost

More than three decades after it was initiated, the Indian government's Light Combat Aircraft programme continues to flounder in uncertainty. The Economic Timeson Friday reported that the government is considering whether to hand over the project to the private sector. The cost of the project was initially slated to be Rs 575 crore but has since escalated to Rs 10,397 crore.

The Aeronautical Development Agency's (ADA) delays in delivery have only served to frustrate the government and the Indian Air Force. The CAG had also slammed the execution, saying that the Tejas MK I was unsafe. The claims that the first LCA Mk 2 prototype -- which will have the more powerful General Electric F414-GE-INS6 engines -- will conduct its maiden test flight in 2018-19 and go into series production three years later have also been treated with suspicion by the IAF.

According to a report in the IHS Jane's 360, "IAF officers question this timeline, as the LCA Mk 2's rear fuselage will need re-engineering to accommodate the heavier engine, thereby altering the fighter's air dynamics. They said this would necessitate time-consuming and technologically complex alterations to the platforms avionics and related systems to stabilise it, which could involve overseas consultants."

Series-production aircraft may cost India 1.6 billion rupees (US $25,220,512) each still a fraction the price of a Western fighter -- the 36 Rafale's would cost $4.5 billion -- but whether they will be the answer to the IAF's requirements is another issue altogether.

The ADA's delays have also meant that India have needed replacements in flyaway condition. A few days back, the IAF has informed the Ministry of Defence (MoD) that it needs an additional 44 Dassault Rafale fighters to supplement the 36 Rafales that India is negotiating to acquire.

The Indian Air Force's combat readiness is being severely affected by the delays. According to the latest Parliamentary Defence Committee report, the IAF's combat squadrons will total 25 by 2022, down from the authorised strength of 45 squadrons.

Here is a timeline of events leading up to this situation:

1983: In a bid to replace the ageing Russian-designed MiG-21 aircrafts, the government launched the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) programme. The programme was to be completed in eight to ten years.

1984: The government set up the Aeronautical Development Agency as the nodal agency to develop the LCA.

1986: An allocation of Rs 575 crores was made for the programme.

1987: The phase of project definition began, with French aircraft major Dassault Aviation as consultants.

1990: Design of LCA programme's aircraft was completed

1993: First full scale engineering development phase was sanctioned.

1995: LCA missed deadline for rollout of first aircraft by six months.

2001: First flight of the first aircraft was conducted in January. It missed the deadline of December 1996 by a long way.

2002: Second flight was conducted in June, misses deadline of September 1997.

2003: In November, first Prototype version (PV I) took off, misses deadline of December 1999.

2009: LCA aircraft Tejas completed 1000 flights.

January 2015- Defence minister Manohar Parrikar handed over Tejas aircraft to Indian Air Force.

May 2015- CAG report criticized project for delays and technical shortcomings.

--------------------------------------------------------------
From terrain friction Tank expert , you have become fighter chronicler!!!

Good development.

first 500 crores in 1984 went into establishing infra,

FUnds for building tech demos released only in 1993 , a good 9 years after 1984.

from 1993 to 2013 IOC , it is as good as any other 4.5th gen RSS delta fighter program time line from abroad.

No mean achievement for a design team taking it up as first project.

Sanctions delay and IAF request for FSED phase-2 accounted for another four years in between.

What the stupid journo doesn't know was PM rajiv gandhi approached Indian private sector including TATA to develop LCA in 1984 itself, First PSU HAL refused, then Indian private sector refused, After that only ADA was formed to design tejas.

By concealing all these crucial facts the journo tries to build a false picture of high flying Indian pv sector and useless HAL-ADA combo(which is primarily responsible for the existence of tejas as of today)

But dont worry , No indian pvt sector is going to get into it, WHY? They all know IAF wont increase order size from their 84 mk2s and 40 mk1s for tejas , even if every mig-21 in IAF gets crashed in a couple of years!!!

IN this determination to keep on flying rust buckets they are fiercely competing with the death wish of DGMF in forever running T-72s till they find another tank to import!!! IA gets away from bad press,because no T-72 is crashing from air,

Thats why two navy guys are now ADA and NTSE chiefs!!!! SO much for the Imported Air Force!!!

"According to a report in the IHS Jane's 360, "IAF officers question this timeline, as the LCA Mk 2's rear fuselage will need re-engineering to accommodate the heavier engine, thereby altering the fighter's air dynamics. They said this would necessitate time-consuming and technologically complex alterations to the platforms avionics and related systems to stabilise it, which could involve overseas consultants.""

Does the stupid journo and genius air dynamics officer of IAF know how many tons will be added to tejas mk2 for GE-414?

What primarily alters aerodynamics is the engine inlet dia, which leads to enlargement of fuselage rear, which is almost the same for GE-414 and GE-404 presently in tejas mk1.

And GE team has already approved the design changes for engine mountings and air intakes done by ADA.Well such inconvenient truths should never be reported by stupid DDM journos is the one law that must be strictly followed by Indian defence yellow journalism.

SAAB has done the same GE-414 replacement in their Gripen NG in a very short span of time with no issues, SO no need to invent a non existing devil!!!

Even the 8 plus ton weighing Gripen NG has only improved its "Air dynamics" after taking in the extra "weight GE-414", so kindly inform the journo and Air dynamics officer on my behalf!!!
 
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blueblood

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"IAF officers question this timeline, as the LCA Mk 2's rear fuselage will need re-engineering to accommodate the heavier engine, thereby altering the fighter's air dynamics. They said this would necessitate time-consuming and technologically complex alterations to the platforms avionics and related systems to stabilise it, which could involve overseas consultants."
They are not even trying to sound credible.:pound:

F404-GE-IN20 - 1072 kg

F414-GE-INS6 - 1109 kg

Both have exact same dimensions. I am sure the "massive" re engineering is absolutely necessary.
 

sob

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They are not even trying to sound credible.:pound:

F404-GE-IN20 - 1072 kg

F414-GE-INS6 - 1109 kg

Both have exact same dimensions. I am sure the "massive" re engineering is absolutely necessary.
With a new engine having higher thrust there will be many modifications in the design. It may not be a mammoth job but will most probably entail, changes in the Transmission, lubrication system
 

blueblood

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With a new engine having higher thrust there will be many modifications in the design. It may not be a mammoth job but will most probably entail, changes in the Transmission, lubrication system
Well that was always a given considering that Mk-1 and Mk-2 will share only 25% (?) parts IIRC.
 

Satybharat

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This bird is flying from 15 yrs and still not worth for induction.
we should double the resources to finish the project asap and move on to AMCA
 

mahesh

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JOURNALIST AND IAF OFFICER

Journo : Sir, your decisions to delay ordering of indigenous fighter dispute having less squadrons why ?

IAF officer : look on the other side, we are jumping to 5th gen soon and avoiding the expenses of 3rd gen

Journo : :creepy:
Journo
: how can you have a 5th gen fighter without knowing much about the 4th gen,

IAF officer ;:shock:
IAF officer ; than why do you think we ask ADA and HAL to develop 4th gen fighters to keep them on trace R&D for 5th gen fighter but not for inducting 4th.

Journo ::eek1:

ADA & HAL ; :scared2::scared2:

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:
 

tejas warrior

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Also, there is no delay in terms of induction plan of Tejas as first 20 will be of IOC standard anyway !!
 
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