ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[Sridhar]

Kaveri Engine Project update

BY : VINAYAK SHETTY FOR IDRW NEW NETWORK
In a months’ time Joint venture by GTRE and Snecma will be bring enhance thrust to the Kaveri Engine and new engine will be available in four to five years from now on , new joint venture most likely will be signed when French President Nicholas Sarkozy will come to India in April 2010.
Since Kaveri engine has been separated from Tejas Project which is currently powered by Ge’s F-404-GE-IN20 engine and further batches (Tejas MKII) will be powered by either GE F-414 or Euro jet EJ-200 engines. GTRE still considers that new engine still has a chance to power Tejas MKII, but the development time for Kaveri MK-2 of four to five years will clearly delay the development of Tejas MK-II so wisely new engine will be selected from the two types which are been evaluated .
So which Aircraft will Kaveri MK-2 power? Most likely AMCA (Advance Medium Combat Aircraft) which ADE and DRDO will be developing , Kaveri Mark -1 may still be integrated with a Tejas PV-1 aircraft by year end once successful trails have been completed in Russia on a Flying Test Bed in a modified IL-76 aircraft which are currently is taking place . With dry thrust of 52 kn and 85 kn in reheat Kaveri Mark-1 is still good enough to power a locally developed Advance jet Trainer (AJT) or even a Tejas Trainer ,GTRE is also working on using Kabini core to develop small turbofan engine for UMCA (Unmanned combat aircraft) or High flying UAV’s which DRDO is developing ,ADE which is main developer of Tejas program is also contemplating idea of a Unmanned Tejas which may be powered by Kaveri-Mark-1 or 2 ,but there is no development currently taking place at this time .
Marine Kaveri has been successfully tested in a Indian Naval dock yard Facility in Vishakhapatnam, which will power Rajput class of ships, Marine Kaveri engine was able to generate 12 MW (16000 hp) at sea level under 35 degree Celsius , GTRE is ready working on 3 or 4 test engines which will be tested onboard within next three years and cost for each engine is expected to be below 25 crores ,which is cheaper than the Western imported engines , Navy will order around 40 of this engines for powering warship in a years to come
Two decades ago GTRE was authorized to launch a programme to develop an indigenous power plant for the countries Indigenous built Light combat aircraft known as Tejas. Kaveri Engine Program from its start till date only four core engines and eight Kaveri engines have been manufactured even after repeated success in Indian condition where engine was able to generate 4774 kgf (dry) and 7000 kgf (reheat) thrust ,failed most of time in High altitude reheat tests conducted in Russia from 2001 onwards.


http://idrw.org/?p=764

 

[wild goose]

India Plans To Induct LCA in 2011

By vivek raghuvanshi
Published: 8 Mar 2010 12:42


NEW DELHI - India expects to induct the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), already delayed by more than 15 years, into the Air Force by March 2011, said Indian Defence Minister A. K. Antony.

Antony provided the date in a written reply to the Indian Parliament March 8, adding that a high-level review is being conducted quarterly by the chief of the Air Staff and monthly by the deputy chief of the Air Staff.


The Air Force has already inducted 20 LCAs into the Initial Operational Clearance stage. The service has a requirement for more than 200 LCA-type aircraft.

LCA weapon installation is proceeding, with the integration of a multimode radar to the weapons suite nearing completion, Defence Ministry sources said.

"There was a delay in the development of LCA due to certain technical complexities and denial of critical technologies. $717.8 million was sanctioned for the development of LCA, which includes manufacture of eight numbers of limited series production aircraft. An additional $538.2 million has been approved by the government for LCA Phase-II program," Antony told Parliament.

Conceived in 1983, LCA is an advanced technology, single-seat, single-engine, supersonic, lightweight, all-weather, multirole, air superiority fighter designed for air-to-air, air-to-ground and air-to-sea combat roles.


http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=4529798&c=ASI&s=AIR

 

[gogbot]

India Plans To Induct LCA in 2011

By vivek raghuvanshi
Published: 8 Mar 2010 12:42


NEW DELHI - India expects to induct the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), already delayed by more than 15 years, into the Air Force by March 2011, said Indian Defence Minister A. K. Antony.

Antony provided the date in a written reply to the Indian Parliament March 8, adding that a high-level review is being conducted quarterly by the chief of the Air Staff and monthly by the deputy chief of the Air Staff.


The Air Force has already inducted 20 LCAs into the Initial Operational Clearance stage. The service has a requirement for more than 200 LCA-type aircraft.

LCA weapon installation is proceeding, with the integration of a multimode radar to the weapons suite nearing completion, Defence Ministry sources said.

"There was a delay in the development of LCA due to certain technical complexities and denial of critical technologies. $717.8 million was sanctioned for the development of LCA, which includes manufacture of eight numbers of limited series production aircraft. An additional $538.2 million has been approved by the government for LCA Phase-II program," Antony told Parliament.

Conceived in 1983, LCA is an advanced technology, single-seat, single-engine, supersonic, lightweight, all-weather, multirole, air superiority fighter designed for air-to-air, air-to-ground and air-to-sea combat roles.


http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=4529798&c=ASI&s=AIR

The plane was not even designed until the end of 1990.

and work only began in 1991.

Honestly who ever reports on the LCA cant just read the first date on the project.

Proposed to build an indeginous fighter in 1983

gained GOI approval as of 1985

IAF presented its specification on 1987 when desgin work actually began with consultation from Dassault.

Completed design work nearing the end of the decade and put on hold during India's economic problems of 1990.

With work recommencing only next year when funding was resumed.

By now at this point the project was already 4 years late. due to the IAF taking time on giving specs, GOI taking time to give approval and the economic turbulence.

Yet i cant believe they still expected a prototype in just 5 years. and lets not forget sanctions following our Hydrogen bomb tests did little to help a project that was already delayed due to its own Technical problems, as well as general government ineptitude

 

[JayChennai]

The first flight took off in 2001. 1300 test flights in 9 years is itself a good achievement

 

[RPK]

http://pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=59334

Tejas for aircraft carrier ships of navy

The prototype of the naval variant of Tejas aircraft is being built for aircraft carrier. The project has lagged behind its schedule due to various requirements connected with the development of a new aircraft.

Deficiencies have been detected in the airframe and other associated equipment of the aircraft. Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) is working out modalities with various organisations for rectifying these deficiencies by suitable modifications to the engine / airframe design.

This information was given by Defence Minister Shri AK Antony in written reply to Dr. Gyan Prakash Pilania and Shri Lalit Kishore Chaturvedi in Rajya Sabha today.

 

[enlightened1]

DRDO in a fix over Antony remarks on naval plane​

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/site/Story/88295/India/DRDO+in+a+fix+over+Antony+remarks+on+naval+plane.html​

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/site/Story/88295/India/DRDO+in+a+fix+over+Antony+remarks+on+naval+plane.htmlhttp://indiatoday.intoday.in/site/Story/88295/India/DRDO+in+a+fix+over+Antony+remarks+on+naval+plane.html

Officials in the higher echelons of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) are stumped by defence minister A. K. Antony's written response to a question in the Rajya Sabha.

The minister had said: "Deficiencies have been detected in the airframe and other associated equipment of the (Tejas Navy) aircraft. The DRDO is working out modalities with various organisations for rectifying these deficiencies by suitable modifications to the engine/airframe design."

Though no one in the DRDO was willing to go on record, a senior project official of the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft in Bangalore said a problem with the "airframe" could not arise simply because the prototype was still being built.

"We have built the external structure. We are now fitting the internal equipment like electricals, hydraulics and plumbing," he said, adding that the aerodynamics of the naval version of Tejas was the same as that of the two-seater trainer version flown in November last. "But since the structural load on the naval Tejas will be much higher, its airframe will have to be tougher," he added.

Officials at the DRDO headquarters said they had sent a draft response to the question Antony answered in Parliament. " We wonder where the mix- up between our response and the minister's reply could have occurred," an official said.

As the system for replies to Parliament posers go, the question is first processed by a Parliament cell of the defence ministry and then sent to the department or agency to which it pertains.

Based on these inputs, a draft reply is prepared and then vetted by a designated joint secretary and then the defence secretary. Then it reaches the minister's office where it is once again examined by his private secretary. For a 'misinformation' to pass through scrutiny of so many experienced hands is a rarity.

 

[Rahul Singh]

I think, like me, almost everyone who track TEJAS's development had taken that news with a big big 'BLAH'! I don't know how can they say "Problem with airframe" when PV-5, which is almost NP-1, is flying, had recorded 8 flights till this date, been displayed to that minister, showing no signs of whatever one may guess regarding airframe? I remember a naval engineer's words, who was at this year's DEFEXPO and is working with naval dispatch to ADA for naval Tejas, saying "We are flying naval version even though we don't have any naval prototype ready" his was referring to PV-5.

 

[notinlove]

I think, like me, almost everyone who track TEJAS's development had taken that news with a big big 'BLAH'! I don't know how can they say "Problem with airframe" when PV-5, which is almost NP-1, is flying, had recorded 8 flights till this date, been displayed to that minister, showing no signs of whatever one may guess regarding airframe? I remember a naval engineer's words, who was at this year's DEFEXPO and is working with naval dispatch to ADA for naval Tejas, saying "We are flying naval version even though we don't have any naval prototype ready" his was referring to PV-5.

well antony might be reffering to the fact that , the naval version will be heavier , the PV-5 might look the same but the under carriage will have to be strengthened in order to make it stand the stress experienced while landing on a carrier , but that is a natural problem every naval aircraft manufacturer faces , a prime example is lockmart with the F-35 C .

 

[gogbot]

I think, like me, almost everyone who track TEJAS's development had taken that news with a big big 'BLAH'! I don't know how can they say "Problem with airframe" when PV-5, which is almost NP-1, is flying, had recorded 8 flights till this date, been displayed to that minister, showing no signs of whatever one may guess regarding airframe? I remember a naval engineer's words, who was at this year's DEFEXPO and is working with naval dispatch to ADA for naval Tejas, saying "We are flying naval version even though we don't have any naval prototype ready" his was referring to PV-5.

No no.

The article refers specifically to the Naval Tejas.
Which has a slightly modified airframe.

Some of features of "Naval LCA Version":

* Aircraft carrier operation with ski-jump and arrested landing
* Nose drooped for better cockpit vision
* Additional aerodynamic features like LEVCON and fore plane to reduce carrier landing speed
* Maximum take off weight from carrier—12.5 tons
* External store carrying capacity from carrier—3.5 tons
* Strengthened fuselage
* Stronger undercarriage due to higher sink rate
* Arrestor hook for deck recovery
* Fuel dump system

Naval LCA.

Mk-1 and 2 Tejas.

Frankly i dont think it will be a big deal.
they will probably fix any problem they find rather quickly given their familiarity with every aspect of the airframe.

Or it could jut mean Modifying the FCL to compensate.

The tejas was designed with a negative RSS like the F-16.
So it will fall our of the SKy regardless of any aerodynamic deficiencies.

The computers on the Tejas needs to be constantly communicating the flight control laws, to keep the aircraft in the air.

Since the core airframe is the same and there were no problems in the design and concept phases.

Any problems involved will only be a minor issue or at worse, require a slightly more modified airframe

 

[Rahul Singh]

I was talking about the similarity PV-5 have with NP-1. Leave LEVCON, Tail Hook, Landing Gear and few extra ribs(added in NP-1 for extra strength) and your PV-5 becomes NP-1. It has often been said many times that NP-1 will be build upon PV-5. This is the reason why PV-5 was designed with drop-nose and refined aerodynamics. Anyways thanks for the information.

As Tejas Trainer has a lot of commonality with Tejas Naval version, even Tejas Navy programme would see accelerated progress as a result of the successful first flight.
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2009/11/news-flash-pv-5-tejas-twin-seater-makes.html

 

[Rahul Singh]

LCA-Tejas has completed 1313 Test Flights successfully. (03-Mar-10).

LCA has completed 1313 Test Flights successfully
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-130,PV3-198,LSP1-55,LSP2-142,PV5-8).
198th flight of Tejas PV3 occurred on 02nd Mar 10.

LCA-Tejas has completed 1321 Test Flights successfully. (15-Mar-10).

LCA has completed 1321 Test Flights successfully
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-130,PV3-203,LSP1-55,LSP2-145,PV5-8).

Only PV-3 and LSP-2 are doing bulk of flying and rest are sitting duck. Seems like only PV-3 and LSP-2 holds the responsibility of getting IOC.

 

[chackojoseph]

Normally, some modifications take place. Then the aircraft needs servicing and replacements.

 

[Sridhar]

3D art of LCA by Pavel Romsy via livefist.

 

[vijayvenkatramani]

1. Is the LCA Navy being planned to be deployed aboard INS Vikramaditya or the Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC) currently being constructed in Cochin Shipyard?
2. Will LCA Navy squadrons be ready by the time of the launch of INS Vikramaditya or the IAC's sea trials in the Indian Ocean?
3. Will it completely replace the Sea Harrier squadrons or is LCA Navy an additional type of aircraft that is planned to be deployed aboard future Indian aircraft carriers?
4. Where does Mig-29 K fit in amongst the planned squadron strength of the LCA Navy?

 

[Rahul Singh]

LCA-Tejas has completed 1328 Test Flights successfully. (19-Mar-10).

LCA has completed 1328 Test Flights successfully
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-130,PV3-207,LSP1-57,LSP2-146,PV5-8).

7 flights in last 4 days........

 

[gogbot]

1. Is the LCA Navy being planned to be deployed aboard INS Vikramaditya or the Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC) currently being constructed in Cochin Shipyard?

Yes, that's the goal.

They will operate alongside the Mig-29K

2. Will LCA Navy squadrons be ready by the time of the launch of INS Vikramaditya or the IAC's sea trials in the Indian Ocean?

Uncertain.

The production model of the LCA-N is a modified LCA-MK-2 .

If the LCA-MK 2 can be readied on time. So can the LCA-N

3. Will it completely replace the Sea Harrier squadrons or is LCA Navy an additional type of aircraft that is planned to be deployed aboard future Indian aircraft carriers?

Yes, if the LCA-N is inducted that will the the outcome.

Otherwise there are reports suggesting the NAvy may purchase more harriers. But that is only a contingency.
The Harrier cannot compete with the LCA.

4. Where does Mig-29 K fit in amongst the planned squadron strength of the LCA Navy?

Mig-29 K will operate on all Carriers using the STOBAR configuration

SO

INS Vikrant
And
INS Vikramaditya

the Navy also has plans for a third Aircraft Carrier.

"The order for the second aircraft carrier in the series is expected to be placed by 2010. The second carrier is planned to be inducted into the Indian Navy by 2017. The second aircraft carrier is said to be of higher tonnage of above 50,000 tons and will utilize steam catapults."

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/site/Story/73256/LATEST%20HEADLINES/First+indigenous+aircraft+carrier+to+be+launched+next+year:+Navy+chief.html

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/3rd-aircraft-carrier-to-be-inducted-by-2017:-Antony/31148

The LCA-N will most likely also operate from the new CATOBAR carrier(IAC-2) .
Since it is an in house aircraft it can easily be modified for use of Steam catapults.

The New carrier could also sport an air fleet of the Navy MRCA aircraft. (F-18 , Rafael , F-35 B or C)
The Sea Typhoon and Sea Griphen have also been put forward as concept aircraft for the Naval MRCA RFI .
But as they are still paper planes their chances are limited.
If the N-FGFA is ready by 2017-2020. Given that it's take off distance is just a little over 200 meters
It will most likely replace the Navy-MRCA role.

 

[nirmal]

I have certain querries,will somebody mind to clarrify please?
Expected time of IOC for Tejas is 2010 and the first squadron is expected to enter service by 2011.
Does it mean that 20 nos LCA to be inducted by 2011?In that case what happens to the six LSP series a/c's from LSP-3 onwards?
Last heard about MMR integration in LSP-3 under progress, no news thereafter.

 

[plugwater]

Tejas to be stationed at new IAF base in Rajasthan

India’s self-developed Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas will be based at the IAF’s brand new forward-operating base at Phalodi in Rajasthan. Medium-lift choppers, Mi-17s will also be stationed at the base which will be 102 km from the India-Pakistan border, said sources.

Uniquely, the new air base that was inaugurated four days ago is the first forward-operating airbase to be commissioned by the IAF in more than two decades. The first lot of the LCA — a squadron of 20 aircraft — is scheduled to be handed over to the IAF in 11 months from now. The second squadron will follow a year later — both are being built at the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) unit at Bangalore. Once handed over to the IAF, the LCA’s first base, briefly, will be at a station in South India, from where the fighters will move in batches to Phalodi, the sources said. Moving planes in small batches is a normal IAF procedure. Phalodi has the capacity to handle other aircraft besides deep penetration radars.

Defence Minister A K Antony had told Parliament last month that the first lot of the LCA would be delivered in March 2011. The Air Force is likely to accord ‘initial operational clearance’ by the end of this year.

Phalodi is the sixth IAF base in Rajasthan. It is located almost equidistant from the three existing IAF bases at Jaisalmer, Jodhpur and Nal (Bikaner). The IAF has two others bases in Rajasthan — Suratgarh and Uttarlai (Barmer). Across the border opposite Phalodi are two major Pakistani military bases in Bahawalpur and Rahimyar Khan.

In the past two decades, the IAF had not commissioned or operationalised a new base as it had focused on improving infrastructure in the existing bases across the country — some 70 in number. In the past two years, the IAF has reopened defunct advanced landing grounds at Nyoma, Fukche and Daulet Beg Oldie — all in Ladakh. The forces have a requirement for more than 200 LCA-type aircraft to replace the ageing lot of MiG 21 series of fighters. An additional $ 538.2 million (about Rs 2,500 crore) has been approved by the government for the LCA Phase-II programme. For this, the engines are to be selected soon.

http://idrw.org/?p=1268#more-1268

 

[gogbot]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

2 decades into the program , easily 6 years of delays.

Seems like the LCA-mk1 can finally cross the finish line , engine excluded

 

[nandu]

LCA-Tejas has completed total 1334 test flights successfully (TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-132,PV3-210,LSP1-58,LSP2-146,PV5-8)-26 march 2010

http://www.ada.gov.in/