ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[plugwater]

DRDO, IAF rapped for time, cost overruns in LCA project

NEW DELHI: A Parliamentary panel on Thursday slammed the DRDO and the IAF for the 27-year delay and the cost overruns in their Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) project, describing it as "a very sorry state of affairs".

It also asked the defence ministry to commission the indigenous fighter jet Tejas expeditiously after obtaining its operational clearance within the stipulated time-frame and without cost escalation by taking all desired steps.

"The committee concludes that this is a very sorry state of affairs. Even when 27 years have passed since LCA was sanctioned, it has still to see the light of the day," the parliamentary committee on defence said in its latest report tabled in Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha.

"All desired steps should be taken so that Tejas is operational by the stipulated timeframe and there is no further cost escalation," the report said.

The LCA, sanctioned in 1983 at a cost of Rs 560 crore, is slated to be ready for initial operational clearance only by December this year.

The first phase of the project was completed in April 2004 at a cost of Rs 2,188 crore.

The sanctioned cost of the second phase was Rs 3,301.87 crore and the originally scheduled date of completion was December 31, 2008.

The defence ministry informed the panel that in November 2009 further sanction was accorded for continuing full scale engineering development of LCA, touted to be a fourth generation fighter jet, till December 2018 with an additional cost of Rs 5,302.98 crore.

The committee noted that the engine of Tejas was running into serious problem and the option of either importing an engine or persisting with the indigenously developed Kaveri engine was finally decided upon by favouring a foreign engine for which tenders had been issued.

"The committee emphasises that the various problems being faced with Tejas engine should be sorted out expeditiously," the report said.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...erruns-in-LCA-project/articleshow/5813083.cms

 

[nandu]

Tejas LCA project to cost more than Rs 13,000 crore over 35 years

NEW DELHI: The overall developmental cost of Tejas Light Combat Aircraft has quietly zoomed past the Rs 13,000-crore mark, with the government sanctioning the extension of the fighter's "full-scale engineering development'' (FSED) till December 31, 2018.

This, in effect, means the Tejas developmental saga will now stretch across 35 years, sanctioned as the project was way back in 1983 at a cost of Rs 560 crore to replace the ageing MiG-21s.

Tejas, in fact, can now give the Arjun main-battle tank a run for its money in terms of years taken for full development. The tank project, after all, was first approved 36 years ago.

It is, of course, critical for India to boost indigenous defence production, importing as it still does 70% of its military hardware and software, but this probably is not the way.

"This is a very sorry state of affairs. Even after 27 years since LCA was sanctioned, it is yet to see light of the day,'' says the latest report of the parliamentary standing committee on defence, tabled in Parliament on Thursday.

Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd, Aeronautical Development Agency and DRDO argue developing a supersonic fly-by-wire fourth-generation fighter from scratch, with international sanctions in place for several years, is an incredibly complex and tough task.

The project, after all, includes single-seater IAF, twin-seater trainer and naval LCA variants. With Tejas prototypes clocking 1,350 flights till now, the "final operational clearance'' for the IAF variant is now slated for December 2012.

"So, IAF should have its first Tejas squadron of 20 fighters by 2014-15. Even Swedish Gripen fighter's developmental cost was around Rs 12,640 crore,'' said an official.

India, however, is now going in for foreign engines to power even the Tejas Mark-II version after the indigenous Kaveri engine failed to pass muster after 20 years of development at a cost of Rs 2,839 crore.

Consequently, while the first 20 Tejas will be powered by the American GE-404 engines, the hunt is on for new more powerful engines for the next six Tejas Mark-II squadrons (16-18 jets in each).

The Rs 13,000-crore mark for the LCA project is breached even if the Kaveri fiasco is kept aside. For one, the FSED Phase-I, which finished in March 2004, cost Rs 2,188 crore.

The Phase-II, which was to be completed by December 2008 at a cost of Rs 3,301 crore, will now get over in December 2012, with additional funds of Rs 2,475 crore.

Moreover, in November last year, the government "accorded'' sanction for "continuing FSED of LCA till December 2018, with an estimated additional cost of Rs 5,302 crore''.

Amid all this, IAF is keeping its fingers crossed, grappling as it is with a free-fall in the number of its fighter squadrons, down to just 32 from a sanctioned strength of 39.5.


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...0-crore-over-35-years/articleshow/5813290.cms

 

[gogbot]

DRDO, IAF rapped for time, cost overruns in LCA project

NEW DELHI: A Parliamentary panel on Thursday slammed the DRDO and the IAF for the 27-year delay and the cost overruns in their Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) project, describing it as "a very sorry state of affairs".

It also asked the defence ministry to commission the indigenous fighter jet Tejas expeditiously after obtaining its operational clearance within the stipulated time-frame and without cost escalation by taking all desired steps.

"The committee concludes that this is a very sorry state of affairs. Even when 27 years have passed since LCA was sanctioned, it has still to see the light of the day," the parliamentary committee on defence said in its latest report tabled in Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha.

"All desired steps should be taken so that Tejas is operational by the stipulated timeframe and there is no further cost escalation," the report said.

The LCA, sanctioned in 1983 at a cost of Rs 560 crore, is slated to be ready for initial operational clearance only by December this year.

The first phase of the project was completed in April 2004 at a cost of Rs 2,188 crore.

The sanctioned cost of the second phase was Rs 3,301.87 crore and the originally scheduled date of completion was December 31, 2008.

The defence ministry informed the panel that in November 2009 further sanction was accorded for continuing full scale engineering development of LCA, touted to be a fourth generation fighter jet, till December 2018 with an additional cost of Rs 5,302.98 crore.

The committee noted that the engine of Tejas was running into serious problem and the option of either importing an engine or persisting with the indigenously developed Kaveri engine was finally decided upon by favouring a foreign engine for which tenders had been issued.

"The committee emphasises that the various problems being faced with Tejas engine should be sorted out expeditiously," the report said.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...erruns-in-LCA-project/articleshow/5813083.cms

Tejas LCA project to cost more than Rs 13,000 crore over 35 years

NEW DELHI: The overall developmental cost of Tejas Light Combat Aircraft has quietly zoomed past the Rs 13,000-crore mark, with the government sanctioning the extension of the fighter's "full-scale engineering development'' (FSED) till December 31, 2018.

This, in effect, means the Tejas developmental saga will now stretch across 35 years, sanctioned as the project was way back in 1983 at a cost of Rs 560 crore to replace the ageing MiG-21s.

Tejas, in fact, can now give the Arjun main-battle tank a run for its money in terms of years taken for full development. The tank project, after all, was first approved 36 years ago.

It is, of course, critical for India to boost indigenous defence production, importing as it still does 70% of its military hardware and software, but this probably is not the way.

"This is a very sorry state of affairs. Even after 27 years since LCA was sanctioned, it is yet to see light of the day,'' says the latest report of the parliamentary standing committee on defence, tabled in Parliament on Thursday.

Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd, Aeronautical Development Agency and DRDO argue developing a supersonic fly-by-wire fourth-generation fighter from scratch, with international sanctions in place for several years, is an incredibly complex and tough task.

The project, after all, includes single-seater IAF, twin-seater trainer and naval LCA variants. With Tejas prototypes clocking 1,350 flights till now, the "final operational clearance'' for the IAF variant is now slated for December 2012.

"So, IAF should have its first Tejas squadron of 20 fighters by 2014-15. Even Swedish Gripen fighter's developmental cost was around Rs 12,640 crore,'' said an official.

India, however, is now going in for foreign engines to power even the Tejas Mark-II version after the indigenous Kaveri engine failed to pass muster after 20 years of development at a cost of Rs 2,839 crore.

Consequently, while the first 20 Tejas will be powered by the American GE-404 engines, the hunt is on for new more powerful engines for the next six Tejas Mark-II squadrons (16-18 jets in each).

The Rs 13,000-crore mark for the LCA project is breached even if the Kaveri fiasco is kept aside. For one, the FSED Phase-I, which finished in March 2004, cost Rs 2,188 crore.

The Phase-II, which was to be completed by December 2008 at a cost of Rs 3,301 crore, will now get over in December 2012, with additional funds of Rs 2,475 crore.

Moreover, in November last year, the government "accorded'' sanction for "continuing FSED of LCA till December 2018, with an estimated additional cost of Rs 5,302 crore''.

Amid all this, IAF is keeping its fingers crossed, grappling as it is with a free-fall in the number of its fighter squadrons, down to just 32 from a sanctioned strength of 39.5.


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...0-crore-over-35-years/articleshow/5813290.cms

What UN-educated BS is the ToI peddling.

They are criticising for the sake of it , and completely lost perspective.

They are just tossing figures around and saying it the best of to make their point.

Most statements are completely inaccurate.

Member's should refrain from posting these articles.

ToI lacks perspective , expertise and is not above providing false information.

 

[badguy2000]

J8 in fact is China's first indigenious aircraft project, which R&D started in mid 1960s and really was finished in early 1990s(get BVR capacity).

J8 also is a "failed project" to PLAAF,but it still consolidate the tech base of CHina's aerocraft industry. J10, J11 and 5G bird prject are all based on the experience of "failed J8"

LCA in fact is India's J8. If I were India PM, I would never abort LCA.

 

[Agantrope]

J8 in fact is China's first indigenious aircraft project, which R&D started in mid 1960s and really was finished in early 1990s(get BVR capacity).

J8 also is a "failed project" to PLAAF,but it still consolidate the tech base of CHina's aerocraft industry. J10, J11 and 5G bird prject are all based on the experience of "failed J8"

LCA in fact is India's J8. If I were India PM, I would never abort LCA.

Do you mean LCA is a failed project?? come on man drink some milk.

If it is a failed project then how come the GoI allots this much of money, Simple common sense. Moreover Tejas ran like a beauty in Leh whereas the so-called Western technologies got f***ed there.

Problem with LCA is the Engine and that too is cooking well in the Russia.

 

[badguy2000]

Do you mean LCA is a failed project?? come on man drink some milk.

If it is a failed project then how come the GoI allots this much of money, Simple common sense. Moreover Tejas ran like a beauty in Leh whereas the so-called Western technologies got f***ed there.

Problem with LCA is the Engine and that too is cooking well in the Russia.

for your refence, J8 succeeded in its first test-flight in 1969,but it had not BVR capacity until early 1990s.

flight in air still is far away from "mission completed"

 

[Agantrope]

for your refence, J8 succeeded in its first test-flight in 1969,but it had not BVR capacity until early 1990s.

flight in air still is far away from "mission completed"

To copy cat a existing AC is not a difficult task. For your reference J8 was made with the reversing engg (ie destructive reverse engg of 8 MiG-21 Fish Bed). Tejas is not of kind or in same league. btw Tejas have its BVR capacity. just go to www.ada.gov.in to check the number of test flights of the Tejas you might got to know about the real picture. Again for your reference Tejas has 100% record over the crash off.

 

[badguy2000]

To copy cat a existing AC is not a difficult task. For your reference J8 was made with the reversing engg (ie destructive reverse engg of 8 MiG-21 Fish Bed). Tejas is not of kind or in same league. btw Tejas have its BVR capacity. just go to www.ada.gov.in to check the number of test flights of the Tejas you might got to know about the real picture. Again for your reference Tejas has 100% record over the crash off.

just bullshit.

J7 is RE of Mg21 while J8 is Chinese first try of indigenious aircraft.

I think only the genius like you can look on two-engined J8 as the RE of sole-engined Mg21.

mig21


J8

 

[Agantrope]

just bullshit.

J7 is RE of Mg21 while J8 is Chinese first try of indigenious aircraft.

I think only the genius like you can look on two-engined J8 as the RE of sole-engined Mg21.

mig21


J8

Ok, now dont bring ur piece of BS in the Tejas Thread. This is meant for discussion of the LCA Tejas not this bleedy Crap. Mods, with this im out of OT and also chk whether the above post are relevant or not.

 

[badguy2000]

Ok, now dont bring ur piece of BS in the Tejas Thread. This is meant for discussion of the LCA Tejas not this bleedy Crap. Mods, with this im out of OT and also chk whether the above post are relevant or not.

ok, let return to the topic: LCA...

anyhow, however long LCA will be delayed, the project should be persisted on

 

[Agantrope]

ok, let return to the topic: LCA...

anyhow, however long LCA will be delayed, the project should be persisted on

GoI made it clear that LCA program will run and more funds are infused in it. Tejas will server as technology enabler for the other ACs to follow. With Kaveri cooking up well, Tejas will be a mainstay for numbers for IAF by 2017 with atleast 50-60 in service and 100+ in orders

 

[enlightened1]

LCA Set To Fly With Israeli Radar​

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_generic.jsp?topicName=india&id=news/awx/2010/04/22/awx_04_22_2010_p0-221793.xml&headline=LCA%20Set%20To%20Fly%20With%20Israeli%20Radar​

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_generic.jsp?topicName=india&id=news/awx/2010/04/22/awx_04_22_2010_p0-221793.xml&headline=LCA%20Set%20To%20Fly%20With%20Israeli%20Radarhttp://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_generic.jsp?topicName=india&id=news/awx/2010/04/22/awx_04_22_2010_p0-221793.xml&headline=LCA%20Set%20To%20Fly%20With%20Israeli%20Radar

By Anantha Krishnan M.
Bengaluru

India's Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) is set to fly today for the first time with the Israeli Elta Multi-Mode Radar (MMR) onboard.

An Indian defense ministry official confirmed to Aviation Week that "weather permitting, we are aiming for the flight on April 22."

Preparations are in full swing at Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd's (HAL) military airport for the critical flight, with last-minute mandatory safety checks underway. Airport sources confirmed that all flying activities would be stopped during the Tejas flight.

"We are all set to fly the limited series production [LSP-3] aircraft ... with MMR for the first time," an official said. "All preflight checks are over, including high-speed taxi trials and engine ground runs."

India opted for the proven Israeli Elta radar in May 2007 to enter the full-throttle weaponization stage of the program, and the radars arrived for integration in 2009. India looked toward Israel after homegrown joint efforts by HAL and India's Defense Research and Development Organization to develop MMRs were delayed.

The Tejas LSP-3 flight comes in the wake of recent criticism by the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Defense over delays in the program. The panel expressed its desire that engine delays be sorted out and the fighter made operational as soon as possible.

India's Aeronautical Development Agency and HAL have so far clocked 1,341 flights, and the Indian Air Force is hoping to induct the first squadron by 2014-15.

 

[BunBunCake]

What i've been waiting for.
Now we have a significant edge over the Jf-17.

This radar was what I was hoping would be on Tejas!

Here's a list of all possible radars on Jf-17:
http://www.jf-17.com/avionics.htm

all no where near the EL/M-2052

 

[geeknix]

wow! thats a good news
nice post man=xy

 

[gogbot]

What i've been waiting for.
Now we have a significant edge over the Jf-17.

This radar was what I was hoping would be on Tejas!

Here's a list of all possible radars on Jf-17:
http://www.jf-17.com/avionics.htm

all no where near the EL/M-2052

I am sorry to burst your bubble , but this is not the AESA EL/M-2052
but the The EL/M-2032

it is an advanced Multimode Airborne Fire Control Radar designed for multimission fighters, oriented for both air-to-air and strike missions. Modular hardware design, software control and flexible avionic interfaces ensure that the radar can be installed in fighter aircraft (such as F-16, F-5, Mirage, F-4, Mig 21, etc.) and can be customized to meet specific user requirements. The EL/M-2032 radar integrates ELTA's experience with real operational feedback from Israeli Air Force combat pilots.

If the reports of the Israeli , India hybrid MMR are true then this radar is most likely what the MMR hybrid is based on.

We have a separate project for AESA radar which is an offshoot of our AEW&CS program. There may also be some involvement from Israeli firms. You have to look that up .
regardless there wont be AESA on the Tejas till the Mk-2 is ready

 

[BunBunCake]

http://www.acig.org/artman/uploads/elm2052aesa.jpg

"LCA"
The brochoure says it is compatible with LCA also.
Why would the IAF want a less capable radar?


You sure it's 2032?

 

[Armand2REP]

http://www.acig.org/artman/uploads/elm2052aesa.jpg

"LCA"
The brochoure says it is compatible with LCA also.
Why would the IAF want a less capable radar?


You sure it's 2032?

It doesn't have anything to do with what IAF wants. The Israeli AESA isn't finished with its development.

 

[nitesh]

As per my sources the radar was installed in ADA building from last year and was able to TRACK jaguars at approx 120 km range but not given me LCA TRACK range saying it is far less then Jag so now speculate about the RCS the integration issue was with mainly cooling the MMR when working in full power. it seems to be sorted out now. The hardware for MMR is mainly Indian and Israeli help is taken for mainly A2G mode which IAF was pretty stringent on having. Our MMR software was perfect in A2A mode but not on A2G only if IAF agreed on inducting on typhoon model we could have seen less delay but..........

 

[nitesh]

most probably today LSP 3 might fly but the weather i not good the clouds and rains...............

 

[LETHALFORCE]

EL/M-2032 is still an excellent radar it can track 64 targets and look at the range especially in the naval role 160 nautical miles

http://www.iai.co.il/21248-26591-en/Business_Areas_Military_Airborne_Fire_COntrol_Radar.aspx


Performance

* Air-to-Air detection and tracking range up to 80 NM
* Air-to-Ground mapping, High Resolution Mapping and surface target detection up to 80 NM.
* Air-to-Sea detection, tracking and classification up to 160 NM.