ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[Twinblade]

Some Knowledge

I clearly noticed WING TIPS HAVE A WING TWIST IN THE LSP-8, MAY be THERE WAS RECTIFYING DONE

Been there since time immemorial. This image has been taken under different lighting conditions and different focal length, but you can still see similar shape by focusing on the wing leading edge. It seems prominent on LSP-8 because of colour contrast of the primer.

 

[Armand2REP]

Do you know how many GE-414 and GE-404 engines that are flying?

It is one thing if a single engine goes out, but to lose two records serious problems. That is why you want two engines for naval operations. It didn't save this Super Hornet.

 

[amanbat11]

Been there since time immemorial. This image has been taken under different lighting conditions and different focal length, but you can still see similar shape by focusing on the wing leading edge. It seems prominent on LSP-8 because of colour contrast of the primer.

It seems there really is some difference in the wing twist in these two pictures, unless it's an illusion due to the pictures taken at different heights. But surely it's not the color contrast, the wing tip twist is clearly more prominent on the LSP-8

 

[amanbat11]

It is one thing if a single engine goes out, but to lose two records serious problems. That is why you want two engines for naval operations. It didn't save this Super Hornet.

The GE engines on F-16, F-18 and Gripen faced problems during the high altitude trials at LEH during the MMRCA contest also, am I right on that? Then recently Tejas experienced similar issues at LEH. I wonder why IAF did not prefer other Europeans engines over GE's. Eurojet was also available with thrust vectoring, a standard feature of a 5th gen engine.

 

[Armand2REP]

The GE engines on F-16, F-18 and Gripen faced problems during the high altitude trials at LEH during the MMRCA contest also, am I right on that? Then recently Tejas experienced similar issues at LEH. I wonder why IAF did not prefer other Europeans engines over GE's. Eurojet was also available with thrust vectoring, a standard feature of a 5th gen engine.

Because the American engine was cheaper. You don't see issues with French or German models.

 

[pmaitra]

We'll have to go with the American engines. There is no need to delay this any further. The LCA needs to be fully operational.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Machines does fail, No engine in this world have no safe record..

GE-404/414 Engines on other hand have better safety record compare to most modern engines out there..

 

[Patriot]

The GE engines on F-16, F-18 and Gripen faced problems during the high altitude trials at LEH during the MMRCA contest also, am I right on that? Then recently Tejas experienced similar issues at LEH. I wonder why IAF did not prefer other Europeans engines over GE's. Eurojet was also available with thrust vectoring, a standard feature of a 5th gen engine.

Aman, please provide link for the bold part. Thanks in advance.

I feel this is serious issue because , if Tejas does not perform on the stated heights than IAF will get another excuse to avoid Tejas MK-1. Besides , IAF is not involved in the purchase of engines.

 

[ersakthivel]

Because the American engine was cheaper. You don't see issues with French or German models.

recently a couple of mirages crashed in IAf after decades of safe flying. Will you apply the same logic here also?
Ge was chosen over eurojet because of lesser modification needed , (since tejas was designed originally with Ge engines)and more thrust it offered .
Lot of F-16s fly safe with single american engines also.And till now close to 2100 incident free flights were conducted across more than 10 platforms of tejas with GE engines.

 

[p2prada]

There is no differenence and no changes were made to the wing twist since the beginning of the program.

The only major change was the addition of auxiliary intakes in the last few years.

 

[ersakthivel]

The GE engines on F-16, F-18 and Gripen faced problems during the high altitude trials at LEH during the MMRCA contest also, am I right on that? Then recently Tejas experienced similar issues at LEH. I wonder why IAF did not prefer other Europeans engines over GE's. Eurojet was also available with thrust vectoring, a standard feature of a 5th gen engine.

those problems are not directly related to the engines.They are related to issues with fuel lines. Infact even the sukhoi-30 MKI was specially modified for high altitude air bases operation.Tejas once cleared LEH trials successfully with the same GE engines, before the so called failure long before. After these trials some modifications were carried out on fuel lines to avoid potential leakage due to butting. After that only the news of it's leh problems surfaced. That too is being rectified as it was done before.So no big issues.

 

[amanbat11]

Aman, please provide link for the bold part. Thanks in advance.

I feel this is serious issue because , if Tejas does not perform on the stated heights than IAF will get another excuse to avoid Tejas MK-1. Besides , IAF is not involved in the purchase of engines.

It was in the news, but like ersakthivel said, it was not really worrisome as the problem can be resolved with some modification.

'LCA Tejas likely to be ready for operational service by 2015' | Business Standard

So, what I'm trying to see here that, is it a case with GE's engines only?

I found this link:
Livefist: Four MMRCA Contenders Fail Leh Trials!

It says four out of six contenders initially failed those trails, so if that was right then it's not just the GE engine that experienced such issues.

 

[amanbat11]

Because the American engine was cheaper. You don't see issues with French or German models.

GE's bid was higher than Eurojet's, so I don't think GE414 is cheaper or has lower quality. I think it was chosen because of higher thrust of 98KN as compared to 90KN of EJ2000. Although, EJ2000 is 120Kg lighter but 9KN of thrust difference provides 1798lbs of extra power.

 

[Armand2REP]

recently a couple of mirages crashed in IAf after decades of safe flying. Will you apply the same logic here also?
Ge was chosen over eurojet because of lesser modification needed , (since tejas was designed originally with Ge engines)and more thrust it offered .
Lot of F-16s fly safe with single american engines also.And till now close to 2100 incident free flights were conducted across more than 10 platforms of tejas with GE engines.

Who can compare 30yr old single engine Mirages? We are talking about current generation options for LCA. M88-2 has never caused a crashed, neither has EJ200.

It seems there is an F-16 crashing every week. Lets check this week...

Yep...
U.S. pilot dead after F-16 crashes in Afghanistan - CBS News

 

[Armand2REP]

Aman, please provide link for the bold part. Thanks in advance.

I feel this is serious issue because , if Tejas does not perform on the stated heights than IAF will get another excuse to avoid Tejas MK-1. Besides , IAF is not involved in the purchase of engines.

LCA Tejas To Be Modified Further After Engine Failure

It is a serious issue. LCA has flown at Leh, but you can't take 5 hours to get it started in a war scenario.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

What is your view on solution ?

Based on one crash, this discussion is going no where..

LCA Tejas To Be Modified Further After Engine Failure

It is a serious issue. LCA has flown at Leh, but you can't take 5 hours to get it started in a war scenario.

 

[Armand2REP]

What is your view on solution ?

Based on one crash, this discussion is going no where..

GoI needs to reevaluate its decision and look at EJ200. It is proven German engineering. Then it needs the new generation Kaveri using M88-3 core.

If this was a single engine fighter then it would not be significant. This was a dual engine fighter that should only lose one engine... not both. That makes it serious.

 

[Patriot]

What is your view on solution ?

Based on one crash, this discussion is going no where..

Armand just want juicy frog legs & $billions for the one highly expensive under powered engine .

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Accident occurs and there are reasons for it from technical errors to man made errors, If there was indeed something wrong with Engines then USAF would fall like flies like MIG-21 in India..

If can please do provide cause of engine failure and we shall continue..

==============================

Btw, I always welcome both engines let it be GE / EJ200, And i hope personally to see Kaveri operational at full capacity..

GoI needs to reevaluate its decision and look at EJ200. It is proven German engineering. Then it needs the new generation Kaveri using M88-3 core.

If this was a single engine fighter then it would not be significant. This was a dual engine fighter that should only lose one engine... not both. That makes it serious.

 

[vram]

Who can compare 30yr old single engine Mirages? We are talking about current generation options for LCA. M88-2 has never caused a crashed, neither has EJ200.

It seems there is an F-16 crashing every week. Lets check this week...

Yep...
U.S. pilot dead after F-16 crashes in Afghanistan - CBS News

And how long has the F16 been in service compared to eurojet and how many air frames are flying around of the F 18, f-16 etc..??
A engine failure does not automatically equate to bad engine design ,recurring faults etc.. There are countless moving parts in a engine which are subject to high atmosperic wear and tear. A failure can be because of any countless set of reason from maintenance to defective parts to quality control in the batch of parts used. Unless an inquiry comes up with subjective reasons the rest are all merely speculative....
IT MAKES NO SENSE to debate the suitability of a new engine to be used in a new airframe like LCA based on the crash of a naval jet flying for no one knows how long and the kind of maintenance subjected to it..

The Navy cited engine failure on the F/A-18F Super Hornet as the reason for Monday's crash. An investigation is underway.

An inquiry has been instituted as rightly should be.Lets wait for it...
Heck we don't know anything right now. Probably one engine blew up and disabled the other one or countless other reasons.
Moreover criticality is higher always in a single engine jet like LCA no matter what engine is used.