ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[Kunal Biswas]

Thanks for sharing..

The problem of height of the pilot more than the pilot's seat surfaced only after the new Helmet mounted displays were introduced later. So no test pilot was in danger through out the ten year flight test program as some people are falsely trying to make out here.

compared to the pilot skull opening Mig-21s and Mig-27s which are faultily designed and unserviceable platforms that were routinely doing pilot skull opening duty in IAF a test pilot on LCA was ten times safer on TEjas PVs and LSPs .

Since the program is nearing completion you can find no paucity of IAF types and critics types to exploit any avenue to throw mud on the fighter.

ADA is refusing to entertain any media because most of the Indian defence journos are .... well less said the better......
Most of the TOI types are paid media who will continue to write shit about tejas regardless of what ADA says.Their understanding the complexities of a program like Tejas and it's profile is as good as their grasp of the profile of Katrina Kaif's profile they see on the screen.

Which agency in the world enjoy talking to this media whose only shit job is twisting quotes to suit their paymasters.look at the acrimony generated by the dumb Mig-21++ comment by even dumber IAF chief (which was never needed in the first place in an IOC ceremony) which did many rounds, while the same IAf chief saying it is just short of grippen NG when full testing is over ,a few minutes later was given a quite burial.

If anyone wants what is the real achievement of Tejas he can go to the following link and find it out in Teer's post in that page in answer to rant of the rats about LCA Tejas.

what's the Tejas' fundamental problem? - Page 3 - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums

 

[vram]

AND WHILE WE ARE AT IT...guys looks like the LSP 8 has flown ...hope everything went well

Tarmak007 -- A bold blog on Indian defence: LSP-8 maiden flight successful

 

[p2prada]

Yes agree. I only brought this up to highlight the Mindset of the military establishment.
We have our difference in opinion and I respect yours while sticking to mine. Let wait and watch in the future hope all iz well
What my entire intention was to highlight the partisan nature of procurement in the IAF. Yes we have some good personal who support indigenous products like Sudarshan LBG though its not yet best in class.
But overwhelmingly the mindset is for phoren mal. Why buy a tata or mahindra when you can get the full monty with a 80% more expensive Pajero.

The problem is people here believe the stuff the defense industry is at par with what the world makes and herein likes the crux of the problem.

Tata, Mahindra etc cannot yet make a Pajero and we need a Pajero to beat the enemy. Neither can DRDO and even they know that. That's why they allow the armed forces to continue importing even if there are equivalent items being made.

If we give military projects to Indian companies which have no experience, then they will only deliver lemons. Tata, Mahindra etc need another 30 years before they can start working on larger projects.

Yes the end user should demand quality as is his right. But my greatest dissapointment has been that the same set of standards are not consistently applied. When a JAG was bought with a pathetic Radar we had to wait and upgrade using HAL.When the monthly problems keep sparking up from the MIG's and the sukhois we still bend over backwards to accommodate them.

No true. The quality standards expected from foreign suppliers is also very high. Why do you think the Scorpene has been delayed so much? The manufacturer could not promise quality.

Jags have a good radar. Current Jags will be using the EL/M 2032. The Jags will be upgraded by HAL because the IAF knows HAL is capable of it and hence the contract. The same with MKIs, Mirage-2000 and Mig-29 upgrades.

This is a very big misconception that the forces does not like indigenous systems. Whenever indigenous systems passed tests, they were purchased. Only our biggest projects have consistently failed tests and hence why they are not inducted.

Come on, what phone do you use? LG, Samsung, Nokia, why not use Micromax? How about using Godrej washing machine instead of Samsung of LG. What about TV? No Videocon at home? Heck if you go to places like Croma or E-zone, do you even see TVs from BPL or Videocon? Heck have you even heard of these companies?

You see we Indians are hypocrites. We want the best for ourselves, but we don't want others to have the best. Heck most people go for imported maal when it comes to basic home appliances and you expect the services to buy Indian maal for highly advanced war machines that DRDO cannot deliver in time or within specifications.

You are expecting too much from DRDO. The reason why IAF bends over backwards for foreign maal is because the problems that crop up are too small to make a big fuss over. At the same time DRDO's products suffer from critical failures and at a much more higher rate.

For eg: IAF will back down when MKI has a problem with wind shield wipers or when a minor modification is required in the fuel lines or when tyres are in short supply or when the engine software has glitches and needs to be upgraded (that's whats happening for the first 32 MKIs).

But it is unnacceptable when Arjun's engines and transmissions fail 4 times in a 1000Km run while T-90 does a 1500Km run flawlessly. It is unnaceptable when turbine blades from Kaveri break off and try to kill our scientists and technicians when a Mig-29 turbine just gives off a little excess smoke.

See the huge difference in what the IAF is willing to bend over backwards for.

This the difference between INDIA and CHINA. They too started with inferior products. BUT by supporting thier own products the quality has kept increasing. THe ban of sales by the EU and the US was a boon for them.

The ban against China was very bad for China. If you did not notice they are still attempting to import from Russia. EU was considering lifting the ban in 2004 in order to sell weapons because they know that China will buy from them.

Their entire industry was supported by the US once upon a time. Apart from that they could invest in indigenization because they had the money for it. China is a $8 Trillion economy and have an industry to show for. We are barely a $2 Trillion economy and obviously we have an industry that is at the same level as what China was in the early 2000s when China was a $2 Trillion economy. The day we are a $8 Trillion economy even we will have two 5th gen prototypes flying. Even we will have a modern tank development like FMBT, similar to their latest Type 99 versions. Even we will have a flying wing UCAV like AURA. We will have a much more advanced space industry capable of dozens of launches in a year. We will have newer ships and with the capability to build them at similar rates as China is.

Heck with the help of imports our engine technology and the quality of our birds will be much better by then. We have been able to keep up with China and maybe even surpass them in some aspects because we are able to import equipment from other countries.

We wouldn't be talking of IMA architecture and AESA for LCA had it not been for the Israelis. The same with all the modern equipment for Arjun. We wouldn't be talking about 5th gen engines without imports. We would still be stuck in the Mirage-2000 era with 3rd/4th gen hybrid Kaveri. We wouldn't be talking about AWACS, nor would we be talking about carriers or heck even spy satellites without imports.

With this mindset we will be a borrowed regional power.

Too many people have been caught up in this regional power, global power routine. When it comes to the military, we are just a bare-bone regional power simply because all our surrounding countries are merely weak. We are not even close to a global military power. We are at best a global power when it comes to the economy.

We are a borrowed military and we will continue to be so for another 30 years because it will take DRDO that long to deliver. DRDO is yet to build the "Pajero" that the Indian forces will induct.

 

[Abhi9]

Tejas LSP_8 completes maiden flight.

Just in

Tejas LSP_8 had its maiden flight today at HAL airport in Bangalore. It was piloted by Air Cmdr Muthanna, NFTC head. More details soon.
Tejas LSP-8 goes supersonic, and achieves Alpha 20 -- both key IOC parameters. More soon

By Tarmak007 on Facebook

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Look at the figures of Budgets given for research and development vs the amount which is 10times more than Budget of entire R&D used for upgrading aging MIG and buying foreign products, this show how much Gov is willing to see National industry to stand on its feet, no need to see Pajaro or Safari..

But overwhelmingly the mindset is for phoren mal.

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Its the paid media which spreading out there PR as facts, This is a simple marketing tactics, Don't listen to them much, research on your own and you will find the reality..

But my greatest dissapointment has been that the same set of standards are not consistently applied. When a JAG was bought with a pathetic Radar we had to wait and upgrade using HAL.When the monthly problems keep sparking up from the MIG's and the sukhois we still bend over backwards to accommodate them. But when desi mal has the some problem then abuse it in the worst way

====================================================

Chinese are experts in setting National defense Industry and willing to pay for it, Unlike us..

China nears approval of $16 billion domestic jet-engine plan: China nears approval of $16 billion domestic jet-engine plan - Xinhua | Reuters]

. This the difference between INDIA and CHINA. They too started with inferior products. BUT by supporting thier own products the quality has kept increasing..

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Di-spite all odds, Tejas are in today's date are upto date fighter and ready for production in mass from next year..

Its already in service..

 

[arunpat]

Tejas LSP_8 completes maiden flight.

Just in

Tejas LSP_8 had its maiden flight today at HAL airport in Bangalore. It was piloted by Air Cmdr Muthanna, NFTC head.


https://www.facebook.com/Tarmak007

 

[Kunal Biswas]

HAL FINALLY ISSUES PRESS RELEASE ON LSP-8!

The last aircraft in the Limited Series Production program of LCA-Tejas (LSP-08) took off on its maiden flight here today from HAL airport. The performance of the aircraft was flawless, said Dr. R. K.Tyagi, Chairman, HAL. The aircraft was flown covering a flight envelope at supersonic speeds and at an angle of attack of 20 degrees. With this, the Initial Operation Clearance (IOC) for the aircraft can be expected soon.

Air Cmde K.A. Muthana, VSM, Program Director (Flight Test) piloted the aircraft on its maiden flight

The aircraft with a build standard akin to the Initial Operation Clearance standard underwent series of rigorous checks by the certifying and inspecting agencies during the last fortnight with a few taxy checks to assess the aircraft performance. The flight clearance by the certifying agencies was accorded today for the aircraft after ensuring that all the aircraft systems were functioning satisfactorily on ground. Till now aircraft normally undergo high speed taxy trials prior to the first flight. However, with the confidence gained by the flight crew and the certifying agencies during the build and ground checks a decision was taken to proceed with first flight without going through a separate high speed taxy trial.

Aircraft systems related to fuel, environment condition, electrical and avionics which had undergone series of modifications based on feedback from earlier aircraft functioned well. (Press Release | Unedited)

Source : Tarmak007

 

[arunpat]

pics from Tarmak007 -- A bold blog on Indian defence

 

[p2prada]

Hmm, it flew with the R-73 pylons.

 

[amanbat11]

Looks like the first picture is not from it´s first flight, it doesn't look like it is holding a parachute in it's tail.

 

[p2prada]

Hmm, 20 degrees is not meant for IOC. It is supposed to be 22 degrees, but I think that will be handled by LSP-6 which has been moved to FOC schedule.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

pics from Tarmak007 -- A bold blog on Indian defence

 

[Mariner HK]

LCA Tejas operating from Leh in the winter of 2013

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Tejas at AERO INDIA 2013 >>

 

[arunpat]

LCA Navy may fly again by mid-year

The LCA Navy, which has been on the ground for many months now since a short spate of just four flights starting in April last year, could take to the skies again later this year with major modifications underway to the platform's landing gear, environment control system, fuel system, lightning protection, water ingress proofing etc.

The LCA Navy team is currently working to complete all modifications since the Shore Based Test Facility (STBF) at INS Hansa in Goa, where the LCA Navy will conduct ski-jump trials, will be ready for take-off and recovery ops by July-August this year. Sources in Team LCA Navy say that the landing gear changes have contributed to the delays as they involve a significant amount of re-engineering. The process is being done under the technical supervisory of consultant EADS, which had been contracted some years ago to help speed up the programme in this crucial test development and test phase. A second prototype NP2 is currently under build, and will incorporate all changes being effected on NP1. NP2 will feature the fully redesigned landing gear and all other changes. The project envisages a total of five prototypes.

LCA Navy may fly again by mid-year | idrw.org

 

[ersakthivel]

Once again some technically unsound statements are passed on as a gospel of truth here.

All LSPs can retain rudder control even beyond 30 deg AOA. And all will have 24 to 26 deg FCS limited AOA because such design feature is built into them. this design feature has no connection with either Ioc or FOC as it is being falsely made out to to be .They won't be flown at those high AOAs untill the FOC is completed. That's all.Once FOC is completed all the LSPs will fly at 24-26 AOA , because then only the flight computer will allow the pilot to reach those AOAs.

The point is the composite tech used in LCA design is being implemented first time by HAL. It was not present on any any heavy metal fighters that HAL has made until now.

LCA mk-1 has already exceeded the original ASR by a significant margin even with so called poor finish.

It is a folly repeatedly post the false argument that LCA mk-1 has failed to meet the original ASR and hence mk-2.There are no honorable intentions behind repeating such patently false arguments.

the original ASR top speed at tropopause for LCA was mach 1.5. Now the mk-1 has a design top speed of mach 1.8.it has already demonstrated speeds up to mach 1.6.

The original STR was 17 deg per sec. Now it's present STR even within the partially opened envelope is 18 deg if you take into account the 20 second completion of a full vertical loop.(360/20=18 deg per sec) that too within the partially opened flight envelope.In ITR too it is now stated to be on par with Mirage-2000(one of the best fighters when it comes to ITR).

The original BVRs proposed for mk-1 was lesser range, lesser weight , lesser launch stress on the wing old soviet missiles. Now it can carry meteor missile with the full 120 km detection and tracking range.

this call for a higher range , higher launch stress inducing higher weight BVRs were raised by IAF after the design phase was over. However it was honored by ADA and now tejas can fire any long range missile available to IAF.

it's original MTOW was 12.5 tons. Now it has 13.5 ton MTOW. Even with the 13. 5 ton MTOW it has already exceeded it's original ASR specs means there is no shortfall in performance.

All the above original ASR specs for the Tejas was given by none other than Air marshal MSD Woolen in the following link.

http://www.tejas.gov.in/featured_articles/air_marshal_msd_wollen/page02.html.

The following are his exact description of the original ASR.

Space constraints prevent any meaningful description of materials, technology, facilities, processes developed for execution of the project. Military aviation enthusiasts may read a monograph on Aeronautical Technology that has attained maturity through DRDO efforts; much of this technology finds application in the LCA project. The monograph was brought out at Aero India 1998. The LCA is tailless with a double-sweep delta wing. Its wing span is 8.2 m, length 13.2 m, height 4.4 m. TOW clean 8.500 kg, MTOW 12500kg. It will be super-sonic at all altitudes, max speed of M 1.5 at the tropopause. Specific excess power and g-over load data has not been published. Maximum sustained rate of turn will be 17 deg per sec and maximum attainable 30 deg per sec.

So people must stop lying repeatedly that tejas mk-1 could not reach the original ASR and hence mk-2.

The mk-2 was primarily a naval option ,which needed extra thrust engine to compensate for the higher strenghtened empty weight to withstand carrier landing. Since ADA is designing mk-2 the IAF also capitalized on the extra boost in performance available to them in the absence of excess empty weight needed for carrier landing.that's why mk-2 can reach top speeds of mach 2 plus.

Infact most of the problems faced by HAl for tejas production is because of the older obsolete manufacturing tech used for russian fighters which have no modern composite components.tejas tech is almost on par with RAFALE.

To argue DRDO is passing inferior Tejas to IAf and that is the reason IAF is bending over backwards for Foreign maal is a simple lie. Infact the truth is quite the opposite. Most of the russian fighters operated by the IAf have huge design and technical faults.

This is being simply papered over because most of them are twin engined and manage to land safely even after many engine failures.But the Mig-21 and Mig-27 which are single engined cannot escape this scrutiny and crashing frequently. that is why the 100 Mig-27s were declared unfit to fly after a group captain was killed in accident.

If niggling troubles in tejas production is sorted out , it will significantly impact the quality of all other fighters to be produced in HAL in future. For example the AMCA and FGFA will have significantly more composite contents. So if troubles with the finish of composite parts are sorted out during tejas production it will save lot of time in the production of the future fighters.

ARJUn is being actively sabotaged to introduce more foreign maal in army. if you ask for a four men crew best in class protection the 60 ton weight is inevitable. the army knows that., since it was the one which issued this four men crew best in class protection with separate ammo storage GSQR to CVRDE.So it is laughable matter ,if someone says now that ARJUN has higher weight contrary to army's expectation.The weight issue is total bull shit aimed at cheating the gullible.

Only T-72 is capable of crossing most of the old 40 ton class bridges in india. Like ARJUN the T-90 too can not cross most of the old 40 ton classification bridges in defence oriented canals and bridges in Punjab on it's own, as it weighs significantly more than that. But it is never high lighted , while this bogus point is used to beat down the ARJUN all the time.Once ARJU proved itself the SHUKLA changed his views. FMBT is an eveolved ARJUn design with more modern elements that needs to be added to meet the future demands.

 

[ersakthivel]

45 percent of components of tejas are made up of composites. it has one of the highest composites contents in modern fighters.

 

[Defcon 1]

LCA-Tejas has Completed 2114 Test Flights successfully.(1-April-2013).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-359,LSP1-74,LSP2-258,PV5-36,LSP3-121,LSP4-72,LSP5-153,LSP7-34,NP1-4,LSP8-1)

From

LCA-Tejas has Completed 2109 Test Flights successfully.(25-Mar-2013).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-356,LSP1-74,LSP2-258,PV5-36,LSP3-121,LSP4-71,LSP5-153,LSP7-34,NP1-4)

 

[tramp]

Pretty good pace now.

 

[Twinblade]

Hmm, 20 degrees is not meant for IOC. It is supposed to be 22 degrees, but I think that will be handled by LSP-6 which has been moved to FOC schedule.

24 degrees is the requirement, 26 degrees is what is hoped to be achieved. It is yet to be known whether the FCS on Tejas will allow temporary overshoot over the FCS limit like in Gripen ( link, link) or will the FCS will prevent any kind of overshoot over the boundary limits (although this AI 13 lecture suggests that this might be the case). The 20 degree angle of attack is being tom tommed as being a major milestone. The thing is, it was achieved all the way back in 2004.(link). Pilots have been performing at AI for quite some time at 20 degree alpha. (link)