ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[manoj.joshi26]

that is the good news to induct LCA program in IAF it will give home industries a lot of confidence

 

[Pintu]

Thanks Tarun , for the update , really a great news , it will really work for the confidence booster.

Regards

 

[sayareakd]

that is too little and too late, PAF on the other hand will get 40 Junk fighter a year, compaire this to our IAF only ordering 40 aircraft in total.

 

[Rahul Singh]

Tension with PRC issue is one issue, growing confidence in machine is the most prominent reason for follow-on order.

 

[enlightened1]

Search for Tejas engine nears its end​

​

Ajai Shukla / Bangalore November 24, 2009, 0:52 IST
Decision likely before March 2010, price will determine winner.

For two years, the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) — the agency developing the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) — has searched for an engine to boost the performance of India’s homegrown fighter. With bids for two engines — the General Electric F-414, and the Eurojet EJ200 — submitted on October 12, Business Standard has learned that ADA will select one before March 2010.

The GE F-404, one of fighter history’s iconic engines, currently powers the Tejas. But its 82-85 kilonewtons (KN) of thrust does not provide the acceleration or the sustained turning ability needed by the Tejas in air-to-air combat. ADA wants the Tejas to have 90-95 KN of thrust, which both the EJ200 and the GE F-414 provide. And, so the F-404 will power only the first two Tejas squadrons; all subsequent LCAs, including the naval version, will fly with either the F-414 or the EJ200.

DRDO’s Chief Controller of Aeronautics, Dipankar Banerjee says, two crucial factors will determine the winner: which engine fits into the Tejas with minimal re-engineering; and which one works out cheaper (acquisition cost + operating cost).

The DRDO officer, who guides the Tejas programme, debunked the long-held belief that the Tejas would require major re-engineering for fitting the new engine. “We have evaluated both engines and we believe only minor changes will be needed in the fuselage of the Tejas”, said Banerjee. “Which engine is selected will be largely determined by its cost.”

Both engines, however, need minor design modifications by their vendors to meet the specific requirements of the Tejas. According to Banerjee, “The Eurofighter Typhoon is powered by two EJ200 engines, but the LCA just has a single engine. For safety reasons, it must have a re-ignition system to restart the engine automatically if it goes off in mid-flight.”

And since the selected engine will also power the naval Tejas, the EJ200 needs to be protected against the corrosive salt-water naval environment.

The EJ200’s rival, the GE F-414, has neither of these concerns; it already powers the single-engine Gripen fighter, as well as the F/A-18 Super Hornet, which the US Navy operates off aircraft carriers. But there are two other concerns over the F-414. Firstly, it needs to be tweaked to provide greater thrust during some periods of a flight, when it appears to deliver less power. And, since it is an American engine, export controls are potentially troublesome.

Eurojet, however, insists that re-ignite software is an integral part of the EJ200. Managing Director, Eurojet, Hartmut Tenter, explained to Business Standard, “If the EJ200 goes off in mid-flight, the aircraft decelerates sharply. The engine software recognises that and automatically initiates the re-ignite procedure. It’s automatic; the pilot has to do nothing.”

Both Eurojet and General Electric consider this engine contract as vital. The order for 99 engines (plus options for another 49) is worth an estimated US $750 million. But, far more importantly, both see this contract as a way of getting a foot in the door for the US $11 billion Medium Fighter contract. Eurojet EJ200 engines power the Eurofighter Typhoon, while GE F-414s power both the F/A-18 and the Gripen NG. Getting a contract for the engine is seen as a giant first step towards getting a contract for the aircraft as well. Fighter pilots say that a world-class engine makes a world-class fighter. Whenever two fighters face off in a dogfight, as pilots term an aerial duel, the one with the better engines almost always wins. In the old days, better engine power allowed a pilot to twist and turn sharply, to get behind the enemy, and then shoot him down with a burst of cannon fire.

Now, with missiles the primary air-to-air weapon, engine power is more important than ever. The enemy usually appears as a blip on the radar, which the pilot usually detects while “loitering” at low speeds to conserve fuel. He immediately guns his engine, accelerating hard towards the enemy, and launches his missile at nearly twice the speed of sound (Mach 2). As the missile screams towards the enemy fighter at around Mach 4, the pilot throws his fighter into a high-gravity U-turn to dodge the missile that his opponent would have launched by now. The pilot who can accelerate faster, launch first, and then turn away harder — in other words, the pilot with the more powerful engine is usually the one who comes home alive.

 

[icecoolben]

Finally the moment of truth i guess, hope the decision is delinked from mmrca. I hope they select ej-200. the engine was built keeping in mind a growth potential of 30%., with the level of tech transfer they are willing to offer including that of core component well over 70% as quoted, it would be cheaper to build all 100 engines in india than f414. the engine also has thrust vectoring capacity so tejas can focus its nozzle downward on the deck and take off better using this baby than ge engine which relies on raw thrust. Eads working on tejas should find it politically and technically easy enough to help integrate this engine than its american counterpart.
leveraging eurojet's components like single crystal blades and core technologies would easily help kaveri meet its design goals of 60 kn dry thrust and 90 wet, which is exactly what this engine is.
My vote's for eurojet-200

The Hindu : National : Eurojet Turbo pitches for its engine for Tejas

 

[p2prada]

I bet my money on GE F-414.

 

[ironman]

D-Day for PV-5: Tejas twin-seat trainer to fly today

D-Day for PV-5: Tejas twin-seat trainer to fly today​

The Tejas twin-seat trainer being assembled at HAL Bangalore some months ago. This same prototype (PV-5) has its first flight test today.


by Ajai Shukla
Bangalore
Business Standard, 26th Nov 09

On Thursday morning the first prototype twin-seater, trainer version of the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) will taxi out to the runway in Bangalore. With its design team watching tensely from the sidelines, the two test pilots will rev up the engine, race down the runway and, if all goes according to plan, lift the twin-seat Tejas into the sky for its first ever flight.

In the cockpit will be two of the IAF’s most skilled test pilots, now a part of the National Flight Test Centre (NFTC), which handles all Tejas test flying. Air Commodore Rohit Verma, a MiG-21 ace will be the commander; behind him will be Group Captain RR Tyagi, a veteran Jaguar pilot.

Over the last few days the first twin-seat Tejas, called Prototype Version 5 (PV-5) has been carrying “high-speed taxi trials”. In these, the Tejas PV-5 has been speeding down the runway at speeds of over 200 kilometers/hour, applying the brakes just short of take-off speed. But on Thursday the pilot will not brake; keeping the throttle pressed he will pull back the joystick and make history as the trainer actually takes off.

The first flight of the twin-seat Tejas is a crucial landmark in the LCA programme. With the first squadron of the single-engine, single-seat Tejas already ordered by the IAF, and the order for the second squadron being processed, twin-seat trainers are urgently needed for training the IAF pilots who will man these two squadrons. Every IAF squadron is authorised 18 single-seat fighters and 2 twin-seat trainers.

The twin-seat Tejas is also important for the Indian Navy. The naval version of the Tejas, which will operate off aircraft carriers, will be based on the Tejas trainer; it’s higher cockpit allows the pilot a view of the carrier landing deck while descending steeply to land. In the naval Tejas there is no second cockpit; its place is taken by an extra fuel tank and some avionics.

Single-seat Tejas prototypes have completed about 1200 test flights, but the first flight of the twin-seat trainer is almost like testing a new aircraft. Though the trainer’s engine and fuselage is the same as the single-seater’s, internal systems have been extensively re-engineered to create space for a second cockpit, complete with a second set of controls, for the trainee pilot. Flight-testing will determine whether this new configuration works perfectly.

The twin-seat Tejas’ first flight comes almost 6 months later than originally planned, because the agency developing the Tejas --- the Aeronautical Development Agency --- wants to minimise the chances of a failed test. The ADA chief, PS Subramaniam, told Business Standard in Bangalore in August that caution in flight-testing was one of the drawbacks in the Tejas programme, but was understandable given that India was testing and certifying a modern fighter for the first time.

European aerospace consortium, EADS, which has been appointed consultant for the air force Tejas programme, is expected to advise on how to cut down on flight-testing without compromising safety. Reducing flight-testing by a year, believes Subramaniam, would save Rs 1000 crores in costs and bring the Tejas into operational service early.

In the absence of major hiccups, the twin-seat Tejas trainer is expected to complete testing and certification by 2014 and start being delivered to the IAF by 2015.

 

[rocky2]

It the test trial succeeds then how many flight trials does it need before induction.
when will they induct this awesome bird with IN.

 

[proud_hindustani]

I hope the test goes successful. I want to see Tejas in induction as soon as possible

 

[SATISH]

Sounds great. The Tejas PV 5 can also compete in the AJT and also can be used for the 4th level training that IAF is mulling forward.

 

[prahladh]

It the test trial succeeds then how many flight trials does it need before induction.
when will they induct this awesome bird with IN.

from the article.
"In the absence of major hiccups, the twin-seat Tejas trainer is expected to complete testing and certification by 2014 and start being delivered to the IAF by 2015."

 

[SATISH]

But Nitesh I thought the AJTs have radars for weapons training and FCS. These can also be used as the second line of defence like the Hawk being used by the RAF.

 

[Sridhar]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Univers,Zurich BT][SIZE=-1]LCA-Tejas has completed 1226 Test Flights successfully. (22-Nov-09).[/SIZE][/FONT]

• [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Univers,Zurich BT][SIZE=-1]
  [*] LCA has completed 1226 Test Flights successfully
  (TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-227,PV2-128,PV3-177,LSP1-54,LSP2-102).[/SIZE][/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Univers,Zurich BT][SIZE=-1] 227nd flight of Tejas PV1 occurred on 21st Nov 09.[/SIZE][/FONT]

(22-Nov-09)Tejas-LCA

 

[marcos98]

cant wait to see these beauty fly...........

 

[Vladimir79]

I think LCA has completed enough flight tests. The number now is irrelavent.

 

[SATISH]

I think LCA has completed enough flight tests. The number now is irrelavent.

Sir but the full flight envelope of LCA is yet to be explored. So I think the test flights will continue till the IOC is cleared.

 

[indian_blues]

did the two seat trainer version of LCA ever flew? any news on that

 

[Vladimir79]

Sir but the full flight envelope of LCA is yet to be explored. So I think the test flights will continue till the IOC is cleared.

More flight tests just mean more delays. The full flight envelope should have been tested somewhere in those 1226 flights. It has to be the most tested, non-operational, plane in history.

 

[SATISH]

More flight tests just mean more delays. The full flight envelope should have been tested somewhere in those 1226 flights. It has to be the most tested, non-operational, plane in history.

Sir, it still hasnt reached its 1000 hours of flight for IOC...but only 1226 test flights. This is our first modern aircraft and we didnt have enough consultancies during the testing period because of sanctions. That is why the HAL and ADA dosent want much of problems.