ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[Sridhar]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Univers,Zurich BT][SIZE=-1]LCA-Tejas has completed 1223 Test Flights successfully. (14-Nov-09).[/SIZE][/FONT]

• [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Univers,Zurich BT][SIZE=-1]
  [*] LCA has completed 1223 Test Flights successfully
  (TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-226,PV2-128,PV3-176,LSP1-54,LSP2-101).[/SIZE][/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Univers,Zurich BT][SIZE=-1] 176th flight of Tejas PV3 occurred on 13th Nov 09.[/SIZE][/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Univers,Zurich BT][SIZE=-1] 101st flight of Tejas LSP2 occurred on 13th Nov 09.[/SIZE][/FONT]

(14-Nov-09)Tejas-LCA

 

[icecoolben]

Boeing has offered the super hornet with its up-rated f414 with reported thrust of 118 kn wet, possibly this might be tempting for tejas designers, since
1.ge is involved from the very beginning.
2.though larger and heavier than ej200 it would be easier to integrate with tejas's fligt control systems
3. To my knowledge other than strengthening the nozzle, ge engine fits the hole better than euro-jet
4.the engine inventory can be easily managed if this boeing proposal lands it the mmrca deal with all ge engines.
5. Though ge has been accused to be sanction prone and not delivering on the tech transfer front such a large order could push ge to go the mile to offer 100% tot, on the engine.
6.indian navy which is supposed to order tejas naval version would be highly pleased with this alreay proved marine environment withstanding capable engine, and the greater thrust would allow easy take off from the carrier deck and will be an even better factor considering arrested recovery.
7.last but not least low costs for very high thrust compared to its competitor.

there are drawbacks to this proposal however,
1. No matter how economical the deal may be, regarding military tech the Us congress wields a veto that is highly un-predictable and overruler even the white house.
2.this engine might be at the end of its improvement cycle, so scope of partnership with the user for enhancement
3.eads is working with tejas fligt programme now, they would be comfortable to integrate their own engine into the fighter than a foreign one. If ej-200 was chosen it would be diplomatic coup for germany and spain for having allowed eads to part with the tech and could allow for more such transfers.
4. There is a high probability that with tejas's low wing loading capability, f414 with such high thrust 118 kn could shortern the life of the air-frame that would be unacceptable for the iaf.
5.even with significant improvement on thrust the engine does not provide a thrust vectoring capability
6.all of my previous arguments could be rendered void, if the prime user of enhanced durability engine variant of f414 the Us navy had chosen to enhance engine life by 20% over greater thrust.
7.there is an even greater chance that super hornet might not be chosen for the mmrca deal on account of Us not willing to part with radar source codes and insistence on signing communications and interoperability agreement.
8.my own personal dissatisfaction with the ge older tech compared to ej's brand new thermo-dynamic cycle from which we can learn so much more.

all said and done. Tomorrow is another day and ej-200 might unleash its built in growth potential of 13% to raise the thrust to 101 kn with thrust vectoring which was precisely what the air-force had hoped for when mod floated tenders. the targets of snecma-gtre joint kaveri development point out to the same 100 kn, be available in 2015 and ej-200 providing it now with more than 60% tot and manufacturing in india, including technology to manufacture hot end components would be even more tempting.
for what its worth india would get ever more mouth watering offers in the future and would do well to tread cautiously along fine lines on both mmrca and tejas engine programme on mk-2.

 

[Vladimir79]

Boeing has offered the super hornet with its up-rated f414 with reported thrust of 118 kn wet, possibly this might be tempting for tejas designers, since
1.ge is involved from the very beginning.
2.though larger and heavier than ej200 it would be easier to integrate with tejas's fligt control systems

118kn? Max thrust is 97kn . The F414 is already an uprated 404, it isn't getting that much thrust without a totally new core. The new generation are looking at increased fuel effeciency and durability, not increased thrust. The F414 would make a good stopgap, but then you would have to get US Congressional approval to make them and I haven't ever seen US fighter engine production ever shifted out of the alliance. Don't hold your breath for that to happen.

 

[icecoolben]

118kn? Max thrust is 97kn . The F414 is already an uprated 404, it isn't getting that much thrust without a totally new core. The new generation are looking at increased fuel effeciency and durability, not increased thrust. The F414 would make a good stopgap, but then you would have to get US Congressional approval to make them and I haven't ever seen US fighter engine production ever shifted out of the alliance. Don't hold your breath for that to happen.

Mr. X paratrooper it has been in the news for a while and its unfortunate that u have missed it, take a look.

Boeing's Super Hornet seeks export sale to launch 20% thrust upgrade

F414 Growth Demonstrator Engine Completes Testing

 

[icecoolben]

118kn? Max thrust is 97kn . The F414 is already an uprated 404, it isn't getting that much thrust without a totally new core. The new generation are looking at increased fuel effeciency and durability, not increased thrust. The F414 would make a good stopgap, but then you would have to get US Congressional approval to make them and I haven't ever seen US fighter engine production ever shifted out of the alliance. Don't hold your breath for that to happen.

one of the prime reasons that tejas still hasn't suffered a crash is that its built on a matured, technologically sound, most successful ge f404 engine and ge's cooperation to the programme. So the logical step would be f414. But those logics have to be redefined to reflect our pragmatic needs, so the mmrca and new engine competition.
We are all pleased with russian cooperation. But in tejas development we prefer to walk with a western engine manufacturer. And don't bring that rd-33 crap, it would be a disaster for the programme and even more delays and eventual abandoning.
Go through the enhanced engine and quote me.

 

[Vladimir79]

Mr. X paratrooper it has been in the news for a while and its unfortunate that u have missed it, take a look.

Boeing's Super Hornet seeks export sale to launch 20% thrust upgrade

F414 Growth Demonstrator Engine Completes Testing

Well aware of the EPE project by GE, however it is not part of the EDE requested by USN. The EDE will be the selection choice since it meets naval requirements for better fuel efficiency and durability. An engine core that shows no other improvement except better SL thrust will not be accepted. If the USN doesn't pick it up, nobody else will either.

 

[Vladimir79]

one of the prime reasons that tejas still hasn't suffered a crash is that its built on a matured, technologically sound, most successful ge f404 engine and ge's cooperation to the programme. So the logical step would be f414. But those logics have to be redefined to reflect our pragmatic needs, so the mmrca and new engine competition.
We are all pleased with russian cooperation. But in tejas development we prefer to walk with a western engine manufacturer. And don't bring that rd-33 crap, it would be a disaster for the programme and even more delays and eventual abandoning.
Go through the enhanced engine and quote me.

The RD-33MK will be the engine for MiG-29K and MiG-35. RD-33(3) engines are already being licensed produced. A slight modification to the LCA can keep them flying with Indian made engines at low cost and commonality among the fleets. IN just signed an agreement for 30 more MiG-29Ks and procurement agents recently viewed engine manufacture facilities in the wake of the need of replacement Kaveri engines. The evidence is strong they are going Russian.

 

[Tamil]

one of the prime reasons that tejas still hasn't suffered a crash is that its built on a matured, technologically sound, most successful ge f404 engine and ge's cooperation to the programme. So the logical step would be f414. But those logics have to be redefined to reflect our pragmatic needs, so the mmrca and new engine competition.
We are all pleased with russian cooperation. But in tejas development we prefer to walk with a western engine manufacturer. And don't bring that rd-33 crap, it would be a disaster for the programme and even more delays and eventual abandoning.
Go through the enhanced engine and quote me.

rd-33 a crap?????

India to License-build MiG-29 Engines

 

[blade]

Selection of an engine to power LCA TEJAS MK II version is an extreamly critical issue. Which will have its long lasting effect on several aspects such as indigenous production of kaveri , the exact roles to be played by Tejas, developement of naval versions of Tejas, the subsequent technological challanges to over come in our indigenous ADS.
The competitor at present are 1. Ge F414 2. Ej 200 3. RD 33 MK-III
1. Ge f414 : A succesor of very powerful and severely tested Ge f404 which is set to power initial batches of Lca Tejas termed as MK I. Hence it will be the most logical upgradation. As per the recent developements US is going to offer India an even more evolved version of F414 which will eventually offer a thrust of around 120KN range.
F414 being a power house for naval SHs for a long time may be a better choice for LCA,as our Tejas also have a vital naval role to play.

Crtitical issues : So far so good for India but we must not forget a higher version of modern tech will also involve a higher degree of defficulty when it comes to ToT.
Especially when we consider the fact that these engines are going to stay active with some of the front line USAF jets for a long time to come. The kind of investment and activities that is going into F414 leaves littles space for a fresh US engine project in this cash trapped scenario. So the ToT of Ge 414 will certainly involve a number of restrictions when it comes to critical technology transfer. We should not forget that in her endevour to built inhouse kaveri India has alredy developed many key techs inhouse and kaveri has achieved a performance close to RD 33 MK -I. So just peripheral technology transfer will not elevate india to no newer platform. Apart from being the logical continuation over its predecessor F404, choise of F414 for Tejas seem to have only one more true advantage and that is its commonality with the engine of SH which is very close to winning the MRCA contest. A choice of this engine will permanently damage any chance of kaveri to even fit into the future version Tejas mk III ( or call it upgraded mk III) after having spent such huge money on ToT. This arguement will equally remain valid for EJ 200 as well.

EJ 200: Arguably the most technologically advance jet engine presently available in the globe apart from Raptor's afterburning Pratt & Whitney F119-PW-100 turbofans.Being Significantly lighter than F414 will help Tejas to handle its over weight issues. The smaller size of this engine will also require very less air frame modifications for Tejas. It will also be a more secured deal from a political point of view especially keeping previous US attitudes in mind.Again its the only engine to have shown low supercruise untill now exact (sustainability is still unknows). Whereas F414 is like to get supercruising in its latest upgradation. Ej 200 will also come with a great technological challange for Indian aerospace industry becuase of its new genaration features. This will keep HAL and indirectly the IAF dependent on foregn help for a long time to come. Very light alloys, some new generation elecgtronics will demand a lot from indian industry and will further delay the process of smooth step by step indigenization. What we have achieved in Kaveri is about 15 years behind the standered jet engine tech whereas Ej 200 will be atleast another 5 yr catch up for russian industry so a choice of Ej 200 will demand a huge catch up work to cover the lag of 20 years +.for India.

RD 33 : Presently this engine is being produced in HAL under ToT from Russia. Over the last decade Russian Aerospace industry has been able to achieve considerable success in
eroding some major issues that troubled the indian airforce's mig 29 fleet. Smoke, unwarranted throttole at supersonic speed, maintaintance hazzard has been substantially minimized or closed. With a fleet of around 66 mig 29 (up) HAL will have to build a large number of these engines inhouse ( which will also include reserves and spares ) & this will provide them more or less the same stand in commonality issue compared to the choise of F414 for LCA. More over when we see the common russian influence in indian modernization it will not be very unwise to believe that some of the key techs of kaveri might have close resemblence with russian engine philosophy. This makes the choise of RD 33 for LCA as more realistic, less time consuming , cheapest, mid term solution for indian LCA. Major challange for DRDO will be to customize this engine for the naval version.

Tejas are being developed to form a true 4th genaration figher to stay ahead of its peers both in terms of air frame, avinics & flight performance. So we must know how much to expect from it. Very often people tallk about supercruising Tejas but its highly impossible when understand the exact needs behind this project. As tejas air frame was never built keeping this special aerodynamic requirment in mind it will take DRDO/HAL a long time and huge engineering work before Tejas can succesfully execute supercruising ability. Just fixing an engine with higher thrust dosnt make a plane supercruise. So only some time in late in the next decade Tejas may really hv a suitable air frame for supercruising. Now Kavery is also being developed in JV and is likely to yield substantial result. So its likely that by 2017+ we will get a kaveri that boasts of a thrust of 120 KN. This can eventually take care of fancy indian dreams of TVC, supercruise etc etc but currently aquiring a jet engine at a huge cost and with pertial ToT, for a fighter which is considered as a hedge against any kind of western sanctions dosnt look very prudent. Rather RD 33 mk III sounds like a much better option. It will not take india much to realize & absorb this russian tech. Even the deal will be considerably cheap. These engines will place indian Tejas ahead of both J 10B as well as jf 17 and that should be enough for Tejas ( in term of engine ).

 

[Rahul Singh]

F-414 is cheaper and will be called an improvement on the legacy(F404). So, IMO it's just matter of time when official decision comes..................... In military world, any thing above 100 mark is big. So, it would not be un-feasible to go for a separate production/assembling line for Tejas engine(F414). It's high time we separate LCA engine selection process from ever green MRCA saga.

RD-33 at +88KN, is just not suitable. Minimum requirement is 90KN.

 

[khatarnak]

1. Indo israeli hybrid ELTA 2032 has successfully completed most of its A2A operational displays. Currently A2G mode is being thoroughly tested in Israel.
2. Most likely Tejas engine choise has been diconnected from MRCA deal. GE 414 might not be an obvious choice anymore. Both EJ 200 & RD 33 are being seriously considered. RD 33 might have the final success but this RD 33 will be a significantly upgraded version
3. Some changes are being brought into airframe to improve air intake.
4. Most of the avionics have been either developed or being developed and the rest is nearing the final sepection ( such as FLINT)
5. The present challanges faces by Tejas developement team could be given as follows
A. Coordinating the avionics obtained from different sources.
B. Effectively modifying the airframe.
C. Handling over weight. ( some measures have been taken by geting rid of the telemetric equipments but that dosnt seem to be enough at present.)
D. Validation of the algorithms. Its a very very time consuming and tressful exercise.
E. Validation of highly complex flight control systems.

i don't know what the reality is but the following conversation was taken from the blog of prasun k sengupta.

Anonymous said...
Whoah!!? EL/M-2052?? All this time I thought it would be the EL/M-2032!!

By 2013 you mean the first flight of the prototype or induction?

P.S. At which distance will it be able to detect say an f-16?
Thanks for your answers!

Monday, November 16, 2009 5:33:00 AM

prasun's reply...

Prasun K Sengupta said...
To Anon@5:33AM: Whoah! What brought you to such conclusions? The EL/M-2032 has been on the 10 upgraded Jaguar IMs since the late 1990s and has been followed by the six FRS Mk51 upgraded Sea Harriers. The Tejas Mk1 and Mk2 M-MRCAs will have the EL/M-2052. Induction of the first operational Tejas Mk1 is slated for 2012 while rollout of the first tejas Mk2 prototype is scheduled for 2013. The Tejas will be able to know about the exact position of any airborne platform while it is still 300km away and while its on-board radar is inoperative. How? Thanks to the operational data link that enables the A-50I PHALCON to pass on the tactical air situation picture on to the Tejas, Su-30MKI, MiG-29UPG, etc.

Monday, November 16, 2009 7:53:00 AM


Prasun K Sengupta said...
To Anon@9:20AM: Both I and THE HINDU newspaper have 'claimed' that the EL-M/2052 has been selected for the Tejas Mk1. So, what does this mean for the indigenous MMR? Well, it will go into oblivion and suffer the same fate as the Trishul SHORADS. I don;t know who exactly stated during AI-2009 that LCA Mk1 will have a hybrid MMR-EL-M/2032 with A2A modes of MMR and A2G/A2S modes of the 2032. Maybe someone 'claimed' it in some other chat forum. Obviously it is false since it does not make any sense to flight-test the EL/M-2032 on a Tejas PV or LSP and install the EL/M-2052 on a production-standard Tejas Mk1. As far back as 2007 the IAF HQ had explicitly stated to newsmedia agencies in India that nothing short of an AESA-based radar will be acceptable for either the Tejas Mk1 or Mk2. So, in light of what I've stated above, you decide what will go on board the Tejas--a so-called hybrid MMR with EL/M-2032 elements, or the EL/M-2052. Why is it taking so long for us to procure it and integrate with the next LSPs? I've already explained that above. And where is the proof that CABS has achieved significant breakthroughs in developing indigenous AEW & CS? So far I've seen only scale-models and posters/brochures, and not even a full-scale mock-up of the mission management system.

Monday, November 16, 2009 10:09:00 AM


To Anon@10:19AM: If you knoew about the sheer intricacies of NAS integration you wouldn't have characterised my assertion about the EL/M-2052 as a mere 'claim'. I have clearly explained the intricacies above and it emerges from there that installing an EL/M-2032 on a prototype Tejas and installing an EL/M-2052 on a production-series Tejas does not make any sense to any NAS systems integrator and is a contradictory approach. The key thing to remember is that for these radars DO NOT employ a common environmental control system (ECS), but each has its own unique ECS configuration. Consequently, there's no way two different ECS will be developed at great cost and greatly increased man-hours of R & D effort for two types of airborne radars when, in the end, it will be only one ECS to cater to only one type of radar that will go on the production-series Tejas, i.e. EL/M-2052. To top it all, (and I'm repeating this again and again) the IAF had as far back as 2007 had publicly stated its MANDATORY requirement for an AESA-based multi-mode radar on board the production-series Tejas (both Mk1 and Mk2). So, from where are all these claims emerging about the EL/M-2032? Not only does it sound totally wrong and unviable both from the R & D and operational standpoints, but it goes against the very logic of developing a definitive production-standard NAS. If you still derive a satisfactory conclusions about the radar's selection, then there's more I can or will be able to add except to refer you to the NAS systems integrators at ADA

Monday, November 16, 2009 10:47:00 AM


TRISHUL: IAF's MiG-29UPG Upgrade Package Detailed

 

[blade]

i don't know what the reality is but the following conversation was taken from the blog of prasun k sengupta.

Anonymous said...
Whoah!!? EL/M-2052?? All this time I thought it would be the EL/M-2032!!

By 2013 you mean the first flight of the prototype or induction?

P.S. At which distance will it be able to detect say an f-16?
Thanks for your answers!

Monday, November 16, 2009 5:33:00 AM

prasun's reply...

Prasun K Sengupta said...
To Anon@5:33AM: Whoah! What brought you to such conclusions? The EL/M-2032 has been on the 10 upgraded Jaguar IMs since the late 1990s and has been followed by the six FRS Mk51 upgraded Sea Harriers. The Tejas Mk1 and Mk2 M-MRCAs will have the EL/M-2052. Induction of the first operational Tejas Mk1 is slated for 2012 while rollout of the first tejas Mk2 prototype is scheduled for 2013. The Tejas will be able to know about the exact position of any airborne platform while it is still 300km away and while its on-board radar is inoperative. How? Thanks to the operational data link that enables the A-50I PHALCON to pass on the tactical air situation picture on to the Tejas, Su-30MKI, MiG-29UPG, etc.

Monday, November 16, 2009 7:53:00 AM


Prasun K Sengupta said...
To Anon@9:20AM: Both I and THE HINDU newspaper have 'claimed' that the EL-M/2052 has been selected for the Tejas Mk1. So, what does this mean for the indigenous MMR? Well, it will go into oblivion and suffer the same fate as the Trishul SHORADS. I don;t know who exactly stated during AI-2009 that LCA Mk1 will have a hybrid MMR-EL-M/2032 with A2A modes of MMR and A2G/A2S modes of the 2032. Maybe someone 'claimed' it in some other chat forum. Obviously it is false since it does not make any sense to flight-test the EL/M-2032 on a Tejas PV or LSP and install the EL/M-2052 on a production-standard Tejas Mk1. As far back as 2007 the IAF HQ had explicitly stated to newsmedia agencies in India that nothing short of an AESA-based radar will be acceptable for either the Tejas Mk1 or Mk2. So, in light of what I've stated above, you decide what will go on board the Tejas--a so-called hybrid MMR with EL/M-2032 elements, or the EL/M-2052. Why is it taking so long for us to procure it and integrate with the next LSPs? I've already explained that above. And where is the proof that CABS has achieved significant breakthroughs in developing indigenous AEW & CS? So far I've seen only scale-models and posters/brochures, and not even a full-scale mock-up of the mission management system.

Monday, November 16, 2009 10:09:00 AM


To Anon@10:19AM: If you knoew about the sheer intricacies of NAS integration you wouldn't have characterised my assertion about the EL/M-2052 as a mere 'claim'. I have clearly explained the intricacies above and it emerges from there that installing an EL/M-2032 on a prototype Tejas and installing an EL/M-2052 on a production-series Tejas does not make any sense to any NAS systems integrator and is a contradictory approach. The key thing to remember is that for these radars DO NOT employ a common environmental control system (ECS), but each has its own unique ECS configuration. Consequently, there's no way two different ECS will be developed at great cost and greatly increased man-hours of R & D effort for two types of airborne radars when, in the end, it will be only one ECS to cater to only one type of radar that will go on the production-series Tejas, i.e. EL/M-2052. To top it all, (and I'm repeating this again and again) the IAF had as far back as 2007 had publicly stated its MANDATORY requirement for an AESA-based multi-mode radar on board the production-series Tejas (both Mk1 and Mk2). So, from where are all these claims emerging about the EL/M-2032? Not only does it sound totally wrong and unviable both from the R & D and operational standpoints, but it goes against the very logic of developing a definitive production-standard NAS. If you still derive a satisfactory conclusions about the radar's selection, then there's more I can or will be able to add except to refer you to the NAS systems integrators at ADA

Monday, November 16, 2009 10:47:00 AM


TRISHUL: IAF's MiG-29UPG Upgrade Package Detailed

I again repeat The Tejas MK I will use a Hybrid ELTA 2032. Hybrid ELTA will contain some of the critical parts of ELTA 2032 where as Some will be procured from indigenous sources in India. MK II of TEJAS will boast of a AWAC built under a joint venture between IAI & LRDE which will contain some technological achievement from ELTA 2052 but will have a radically improved electronic & software components. This project is not yet maruted enought to be considered for MK I. Its also been found that Hybrid has offered a fantastic performance even exceeding the initial requirments. So we shall not mix up older version of ELTA 2032 which came as a part of a upgrdation pakage with the present Hybrid MMR which will offer a generational edge over the older version.

WIKIPEDIA ------
The 3D Multi-mode radar, a HAL project of which DRDO's LRDE is a subsystem provider, this project to develop an advanced, lightweight Multimode fire control radar for the LCA Tejas fighter, has faced stiff challenges and been struck by delay. It has now been completed with Elta's (Israel) assistance. The multimode radar is a greater than 100 km (62 mi) range (detection of a small fighter target), 10 target track, two target engage, lightweight system with an all-up weight of only 130 kg. At the Aero India Trade fair in 2007, it was revealed that an all new combined signal and data processor had been developed, replacing the original separate units. Substantial weight and volume savings apart, the new unit is much more powerful and makes use of contemporary ADSP processors. The other radar critical hardware has also been developed and validated, however work remains on the software front. The software for the air to air mode has been developed considerably (including search and track while scan in both look up and look down modes) but air to ground modes are being still worked upon. The radar development was shown to be considerably more mature than previously thought. At Aero India 2009, it was revealed that the 3D MMR project has been superseded by the new 3D AESA FCR project led by LRDE. The MMR itself has been completed with Elta Israel's assistance and now involved Elta 2032 technology for Air to Ground mapping and targeting. This "hybrid" MMR has been trialled, validated and will be supplied for the initial MK1 LCAs of which 2 Squadrons worth are to be ordered by the Indian Air Force (around 40 units). The MK2 LCA will receive the new AESA radar.

 

[enlightened1]

Mk2 M-MRCAs will have the EL/M-2052.

Did he say M-MRCAs???!

 

[icecoolben]

Elta 2052, could not be fit into tejas in its current form and would require weight reduction, dimension change etc. Weapons are tested using 2032. But hybrid is offered to keep the multi-mode radar project to get bank-rolled.

 

[blade]

IAF orders more Tejas LCAs to replace MiG-21s

Ajai Shukla / Bangalore November 23, 2009, 0:45 IST

The Indian Air Force is taking a crucial step towards accepting the indigenous Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) as a replacement for its ageing MiG-21 fighters. Senior air force officers told Business Standard that IAF was ordering a second Tejas squadron (20 aircraft), in addition to the 20 fighters already on order.

Ashok Nayak, chairman of Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd, which will manufacture the Tejas, has confirmed this development. “The Ministry of Defence (MoD) tender for 20 additional Tejas fighters is on track,” he told Business Standard. “After it is issued, we will sit down with MoD and negotiate a price.”

The order for a second squadron is a vital expression of IAF’s confidence in the future of the long-running Tejas programme. So far, IAF had insisted on evaluating the performance of the first squadron before ordering a second, by 2015-2016. That would allow the Tejas to be upgraded to the Tejas Mark II, which would have a new, more powerful engine. But now, with its fighter fleet dwindling, as the old MiG-21s are retired, IAF is taking the Tejas as it is.
WHY LAF URGENTLY NEEDS A SECOND SQUADRON
* Against a sanctioned requirement of 39.5 squadrons, IAF is down to just 32
* By 2015, another 6 squadrons of MiG-21s and two squadrons of MiG-27s would have finished their service lives
* HAL is manufacturing Sukhoi-30MKIs, but the current production is just 14 per year. By 2015, IAF will have just 29 squadrons of fighters
* The shortfall becomes more worrisome with the new requirement of five IAF squadrons for the North-East
“The Tejas, even with its current GE-404 engine, is a better fighter than the MiG-21,” explained a senior IAF officer who is familiar with equipment policy. “By 2015, the first Tejas squadron will be ready for IAF. HAL’s assembly line will be free; while the Tejas Mark II finishes testing, HAL can build a second squadron with the GE-404 engine,” he added.

So far, the plan was to produce 12 twin-seater Tejas trainers after the first squadron was built. The new order will be for 18 single-seater and 2 twin-seater Tejas: exactly what equips a fighter squadron.

Here’s why IAF urgently needs that second squadron: Against a sanctioned requirement of 39.5 squadrons (each squadron has 21 fighters), IAF is now down to just 32 squadrons. By 2015, another six squadrons of MiG-21s and two squadrons of MiG-27s would have finished their service lives. Meanwhile, HAL is manufacturing Sukhoi-30MKIs, but the current production is just 14 per year. The mathematics is clear: By 2015, IAF will have just 29 squadrons of fighters.

Making this shortfall even more worrisome is the new requirement of five IAF squadrons for north-east India, as a result of an increased threat assessment from China. Senior IAF officers have recently declared that India actually needs 45 squadrons.

In this context, IAF cannot wait to induct the Tejas as the next light fighter, a role that the MiG-21 has long performed. Medium fighters are as urgently needed, and IAF is currently evaluating six aircraft for this role. But the new Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA), even if the contract is placed expeditiously, is unlikely to enter service before 2015-16. Only in the heavy fighter segment is IAF well placed, with the superlative Sukhoi-30MKI steadily joining the fleet.

The Tejas is currently undergoing weapon trials to obtain its Initial Operational Clearance, most likely by early 2011. Then starts the two-year process for obtaining Final Operational Clearance, after which it can enter service in early 2013. Then, if HAL can deliver 10 Tejas fighters per year, the first squadron will be ready by the end of 2014. And, if all of that goes smoothly, the second Tejas squadron will join IAF by the end of 2016.

IAF has decided that No 45 Squadron, which operated MiG-21M fighters until they were recently retired, will be the first Tejas squadron. It will be based in Sulur, near Coimbatore. It is still not clear where the second Tejas squadron will be based.
LINK: IAF orders more Tejas LCAs to replace MiG-21s

 

[icecoolben]

Good news for the programme, they can build more perform more number of fligt required to make up for fligt hours in obtaining operational clearance. Can anyone brief me on the trainers ordered previously? what about the 12 twin seater's air force ordered. Were they all for training and would be assimilated to different squadrans as tejas gets inducted or will they be tried as advanced trainers equalent of t-50 golden eagle, eads mako HEAT and eventually to become india's advanced jet trainers.

 

[rocky2]

Good news for LCA and IAF as well. It will boost up the domestic industry and aviation industry...

 

[Vladimir79]

IAF should have done this years ago. It is something similar to what happened with China and the J-10. They never could get WS-10 to operate effectively so instead of waiting, they went ahead with full scale production using imported engines. Now they number four regiments and continue to expand. China might not like the fact they are dependent on Russia to keep her birds in the air, but at least she has a fleet to fly. India should have worked harder to push this through early, even if it required some foreign components. Keeping MiG-21 flying so long has turned out to be a costly mistake.

 

[ajtr]

As the no. of IAF squadrons fast dwindling currently at 32 against the sanctioned 39.5 and by 2015 another 6 squadrons of mig-21 and 2 squadrons of mig-27 gonna retire.So IAf urgently need new squadrons to replace and MMRCA is long way to procure .So next best option is LCA in its current config.IAF is just buying LCA as stop gap measure.A something is better than nothing.IAF already made it clear that the need 45 squadron in order to effectively check china and pak together.IAF will never buy LCA in bulk unless it becomes super duper.More over indian forces r too much fascinated by phoren(foreign) maal.

 

[tarunraju]

IAF orders more Tejas LCAs to replace MiG-21s

The Indian Air Force is taking a crucial step towards accepting the indigenous Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) as a replacement for its ageing MiG-21 fighters. Senior air force officers told Business Standard that IAF was ordering a second Tejas squadron (20 aircraft), in addition to the 20 fighters already on order.

Ashok Nayak, chairman of Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd, which will manufacture the Tejas, has confirmed this development. “The Ministry of Defence (MoD) tender for 20 additional Tejas fighters is on track,” he told Business Standard. “After it is issued, we will sit down with MoD and negotiate a price.”

The order for a second squadron is a vital expression of IAF’s confidence in the future of the long-running Tejas programme. So far, IAF had insisted on evaluating the performance of the first squadron before ordering a second, by 2015-2016. That would allow the Tejas to be upgraded to the Tejas Mark II, which would have a new, more powerful engine. But now, with its fighter fleet dwindling, as the old MiG-21s are retired, IAF is taking the Tejas as it is.

WHY IAF URGENTLY NEEDS A SECOND SQUADRON

• Against a sanctioned requirement of 39.5 squadrons, IAF is down to just 32
• By 2015, another 6 squadrons of MiG-21s and two squadrons of MiG-27s would have finished their service lives
• HAL is manufacturing Sukhoi-30MKIs, but the current production is just 14 per year. By 2015, IAF will have just 29 squadrons of fighters
• The shortfall becomes more worrisome with the new requirement of five IAF squadrons for the North-East

“The Tejas, even with its current GE-404 engine, is a better fighter than the MiG-21,” explained a senior IAF officer who is familiar with equipment policy. “By 2015, the first Tejas squadron will be ready for IAF. HAL’s assembly line will be free; while the Tejas Mark II finishes testing, HAL can build a second squadron with the GE-404 engine,” he added.

So far, the plan was to produce 12 twin-seater Tejas trainers after the first squadron was built. The new order will be for 18 single-seater and 2 twin-seater Tejas: exactly what equips a fighter squadron.

Here’s why IAF urgently needs that second squadron: Against a sanctioned requirement of 39.5 squadrons (each squadron has 21 fighters), IAF is now down to just 32 squadrons. By 2015, another six squadrons of MiG-21s and two squadrons of MiG-27s would have finished their service lives. Meanwhile, HAL is manufacturing Sukhoi-30MKIs, but the current production is just 14 per year. The mathematics is clear: By 2015, IAF will have just 29 squadrons of fighters.

Making this shortfall even more worrisome is the new requirement of five IAF squadrons for north-east India, as a result of an increased threat assessment from China. Senior IAF officers have recently declared that India actually needs 45 squadrons.

In this context, IAF cannot wait to induct the Tejas as the next light fighter, a role that the MiG-21 has long performed. Medium fighters are as urgently needed, and IAF is currently evaluating six aircraft for this role. But the new Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA), even if the contract is placed expeditiously, is unlikely to enter service before 2015-16. Only in the heavy fighter segment is IAF well placed, with the superlative Sukhoi-30MKI steadily joining the fleet.

The Tejas is currently undergoing weapon trials to obtain its Initial Operational Clearance, most likely by early 2011. Then starts the two-year process for obtaining Final Operational Clearance, after which it can enter service in early 2013. Then, if HAL can deliver 10 Tejas fighters per year, the first squadron will be ready by the end of 2014. And, if all of that goes smoothly, the second Tejas squadron will join IAF by the end of 2016.

IAF has decided that No 45 Squadron, which operated MiG-21M fighters until they were recently retired, will be the first Tejas squadron. It will be based in Sulur, near Coimbatore. It is still not clear where the second Tejas squadron will be based.

Source: Business Standard