ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[pankaj nema]

In 2 more years even the GE 414 talks wont be over.. also redesigns, integration, test runs, IOC, FOC...damn...

GE 414 talks are over and the first engine will come in 3 years

BTW 414 is going into LCA mk2 and NOT into LCA mk1

LCA MK2 is 5 years away

Already more than 40 Ge 404 IN 20 engines for LCA mk 1 are available

After LSP 8 we will see serial production of Lca mk 1

 

[SpArK]

GE 414 is going into LCA mk2 and NOT into LCA mk1

LCA MK2 is 5 years away

Already more than 40 Ge 404 IN 20 engines for LCA mk 1 are available

After LSP 8 we will see serial production of Lca mk 1

Ist what i was also saying...

Who wants LCA-1.. even IAF doesnt whole heartedly likes it and thats why its posted in deep south Sulur. ( as much away from enemy).

Mk-2 ..GE414.. well even the design changes to integrate it will start after the loooong FOC.. and after that 1 year celebration for making it into production...

 

[pankaj nema]

LCA mk1 will be much better than Mig 21 and mig 27

So IAF will LOVE it eventually AFTER they have put it to rigorous tests beginning next year
and Sulur is close to ADA Banglore

A new plane like LCA might need some help and feedback from ADA Hence Sulur

 

[Immanuel]

yes mig-21 is a mach 2 intercepter, but it is ridiculously shot ranged when it pushes its after burners, it may hit mach speeds for brief instances when it's time to fire its BVR missiles. LCa mk-1 has so far touched mach 1.4 and has much better accelaration than the mig-21 and better range on any given day. For brief instances it too can hit speeds over mach 1.4 and launch, it also has a lower rcs. LCA also has a better RWR, MMR, furhtermore mig-21 Bison is no way close to the lca mk-1, LCA mk-1 will undergo further expansion of its envelope, it will certainly hit speed of around mach 1.8 by FOC. LCa mk-2 will be a whole different league, with the new kick ass GE, it would certainly have top speeds of over mach 2, supercruise and acceleration, turn rates, climb rates which will surpass the EF, Gripen NG and Rafale.

 

[agentperry]

my dear fellow members,
no air force in todays world want to replace the current fleet with equal capability planes. IAF is no exception, they dont wish to replace mig-21 with mig-21 and mig-27 with mig-27. they seek better planes to counter the rapidly strengthening enemy forces. ( general information for all: IAF designate lca mark 1 as tejas and lca mark 2 as lca only, atleast on papers). lca is modern, have composite body and have superior electronics and systems. but morethan this is its strength and capability to utilize them.
whats the use of fly by wire when tejas engine flames out in difficult maneuver, cant attack with high AoA, takes long time to complete one circle. we had defended tejas from paki and chinese troll in lca vs jf-17 debate but still it lacks and fall behind from what iaf have been promised mostly due to in efficient funds allocated to drdo, delay in manufacturing process for tejas, lethargicity of hal management in consulting the design team of tejas and not sharing their experience in aircrafts with ADE.
seeing the pace with which chinese are adding su-27/su-30 and planning to add j-xx and all, will it be wise on IAF part to induct aircraft which falls behind the enemy's plane. no. why on earth an air force will add an aircraft when they have option to go for Su-30 mki, typhoon/rafale and pak-fa.

my sources are not wrong and moreover they are significant even if they have flawed mindset. they are responsible for acquisitions IAF make. and they hope high from lca(which we netizens call lca mk2) but none from tejas( which is the name for lca mk1).

i hope i cleared the psyche of iaf to you all

 

[vram]

I agree with agentperry on this one. Tejas right now is nowhere near where a modern jet should be. mk2 looks promising but only time will tell. Other countries are producing trainers with the similar capabilities.

Regarding the technological barriers, IAF is not responsible for that. IAF demanded a fully functional multirole aircraft to be inducted in early 2000s. HAL promised it but never delivered and is still not even close.

For a jet which was to be inducted 12-15 years back, MMR was good enough but in the present day scenario AESA is a must. Our enemies do not care whether Tejas is home grown or not. They will field the best technology they have so should we.

Actually I do agree with you and Agentperry on some of you points raised regarding timely delivery etc... What I don't agree with is your assesment that The Tejas will be swept under the carpet by what is being flown today by Pakistan and china et la... For all the praise heaped on F16(I do agree it is one of the best airframes ever built) don't you think the plane is being a BIT OVERHYPED? So you say AESA radar is the future. I agree. But airforce operation Doctrine in any country in the world is framed by threat perceptions and the force that the enemy can apply behind the threat. FOR INDIAN IT IS PRIMARILY CHINA & PAKISTAN.

The Major fighter in the PAF arsenal is the F16 which is not the latest block and doesn't have AESA radar presently.The PAF acquired the BVR missiles much later than india. any Airforce has to train for a very long time before they can effectively field all the mighty arsenals. As the great General Napolean once said(I don't remember the exact quote ), more than the actual fighting which forms only 5% of a soldiers field duty it is the mundane and unglamorous task of training and training even more that actually wins the war. Indian Airforce trains and train exensively through various Combat scenarios including BVR & AWAC's etc...
When ever India has particpated in exercises like COPE INDIA etc... we mostly simulate situations where the enemy is numerically superior.This was commented upon by the USAF personnel I vaguely remember reading. I think we can safely say that Indian Pilots are much more trained to fight tatics form different countries even more than Pakistan and definitely more if not equal to China.

So we can also agree that the process that IAF is conducting today while inducting the LCA might be bitter bcos it brings out the faults, which consequently help in improving the craft. But that doen't mean that the fighter is Bad.

When You say any enemy fighter can sweep the LCA of its feet I feel it is a bit blind. No country in our threat Perception is going to field a AESA ready craft with full operational training within this decade. I don't think we will be fighting the Americans soon. By which time I can safely say even the LCA will be upgraded. What i said earlier stand. Give us a break guys how many countries truly have a airforce equipped and trained with AESA radars???
The HAL made a lot of mistakes in the LCA project.I don't deny it. But I don't agree with your analysis that the HAL is ust a producer. In my View HAL should be seen as the foundation for our Defense Indipendence. The Navy has the right Idea when it invests in our OWN defense Industry. In the end the Investment will be a force multiplier no matter how long the delay. The pakistani's will have to go begging to US for any spare parts for their F16. In the End LCA might not be the best in the business or its category but it is DEFINITELY CAPABLE OF HANDLING MOST OF THE HARDWARE THAT CAN BE THROWN AT US BY INDIA'S ENEMIES TODAY( Not a mythical J20 that might come in the future).

 

[heartrocker22]

stop bashing HAL and DRDO

How can you compare HAL and DRDO of 90's to todays .....
Back then we din't have access to many tech lik those of todays coz of sanction
But still we manged to put out a decent aircraft and a strong missile programme

U guys Always complaint of failure of Kaveri and prolonged devlopment of LCA , china still has to produce a decent engine for fighter jet and AESA radar even after being ahead of us for many years and using reverse engineering

HAL and DRDO are New kid on international stage , give them sometime .. Till now they were like a boys going to a public welfare school (lots of expectation and few resources). But now things have changed even the political will is changing

For countries defence At present we are buying some of the world's best tech while HAL gains some experience in Offset clause..

10-20 yr ago if u said to anyone INDIA would be IT and Medical tourism HUB , giving Monetary assistance to other nations u would be laughed at ... But hey we did it .
So who knows what in store for future for our defense industry ......

proud of HAL and DRDO And INDIA JAI HIND

 

[balai_c]

How can you compare HAL and DRDO of 90's to todays .....
Back then we din't have access to many tech lik those of todays coz of sanction
But still we manged to put out a decent aircraft and a strong missile programme

U guys Always complaint of failure of Kaveri and prolonged devlopment of LCA , china still has to produce a decent engine for fighter jet and AESA radar even after being ahead of us for many years and using reverse engineering

HAL and DRDO are New kid on international stage , give them sometime .. Till now they were like a boys going to a public welfare school (lots of expectation and few resources). But now things have changed even the political will is changing

For countries defence At present we are buying some of the world's best tech while HAL gains some experience in Offset clause..

10-20 yr ago if u said to anyone INDIA would be IT and Medical tourism HUB , giving Monetary assistance to other nations u would be laughed at ... But hey we did it .
So who knows what in store for future for our defense industry ......

proud of HAL and DRDO And INDIA JAI HIND

I do appreciate the sentiment. Yes we do lag behind in a number of places. But hey, must we harp on the negative all the time? The first aircraft we developed in the mid sixties was MARUT, as we all remember. We abandoned it hastily without using it for developing future technology, like most countries. The result was that we lost an entire generation of Engineers who could guide their future successors. Technology development is as much an art as it is science. Just like many other trades, technology development is also a culture. It must be nurtured if we want to make it grow.The Tejas program didn't just give us an aircraft, but an entire generation of technologists who will drive our aerospace dream forward. Now that is not something any amount of money can buy you.

For example, let us take our much loved isro. We all know our legendary workhorse, PSLV. Now before PSLV, we had the ASLV . The ASLV was called "automatic sea landing Vehicle" back then. ISRO was subject to ridicule and public scorn. Had ISRO backed off, we would not have our PSLV.

What I am calling for is a little support. All technologically developed nations have gone through this stage.A little constructive critism a very important but a little support goes a long way.

 

[Armand2REP]

HAL and DRDO are New kid on international stage , give them sometime .. Till now they were like a boys going to a public welfare school (lots of expectation and few resources). But now things have changed even the political will is changing

For countries defence At present we are buying some of the world's best tech while HAL gains some experience in Offset clause..

10-20 yr ago if u said to anyone INDIA would be IT and Medical tourism HUB , giving Monetary assistance to other nations u would be laughed at ... But hey we did it .
So who knows what in store for future for our defense industry ......

proud of HAL and DRDO

HAL is 71 years old and DRDO is 53. They are not new kids on the block, they are dinosaurs. Their main priority is to develop and build indigenous defence products and they are failing miserably at it. 75% imports and climbing...

 

[Godless-Kafir]

HAL is 71 years old and DRDO is 53. They are not new kids on the block, they are dinosaurs. Their main priority is to develop and build indigenous defence products and they are failing miserably at it. 75% imports and climbing...

He meant the budget, so far they worked in show string budgets and if any western company should have ever worked at that level they would not even have turned out nuts and bolts.

 

[nitesh]

IAF Chief: 214 FGFAs, HAL Tejas Clearance Delayed, MRCA Deliveries by 2014 and more.. | India Defence

Final operational clearance for HAL LCA Tejas has been delayed by one year.

 

[nirmal]

Will the delay in FOC affect the serial production of the first 20 LCA Mk-1?

 

[Pintu]

Upgraded Tejas to take off in 3 years - Times Of India

Upgraded Tejas to take off in 3 years
Shimona Kanwar, TNN Sep 27, 2011, 02.01am IST

CHANDIGARH: An upgraded version of Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas will be ready to take off within three years.

The Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), along with the Central Scientific Instruments Organization (CSIO), Chandigarh, is working on the project. Tejas' aircraft technology will put India on the fifth spot after the US, France, Russia and UK.

This was disclosed by additional general manager of HAL, Bangalore, K P Singh, who visited the CSIO laboratory on the occasion of the CSIR foundation day on Monday.

Tejas LCA has a HUD (head up display) which was developed at the CSIO at the start of the year. It has unmatchable brightness on the display board. "We will provide HUD for the upgraded version which will have better range accuracy and will be lighter as compared to the existing one. At present, we have HUD weighing 18kg," said Dr Pawan Kapur, director CSIO.

The improvised version is being devised for the Indian Navy. According to official sources, there is a requirement of over 100 such HUDs for Tejas. "Already, we have provided 36 and 90 more are in the production line," said an official at the CSIO.

Talking about the plan, Singh said, "We have been working with CSIO on LCA and intermediate jet trainer aircraft."

Though HAL is the only supplier of Tejas to the Indian defence forces, catching up with the international competitors has not been easy. "We cannot afford to lose time. There are gaps in the system which slows down the pace of technology. Though red tapism has decreased to some extent, it still exists," said Singh.

The CSIO is working on Mark 2 for intermediate jet trainer aircraft where the weight of the HUD will be 11.8kg.

 

[jayadev]

LCA-Tejas has completed 1712 Test Flights successfully. (30-Sep-2011).

(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-208,PV3-301,LSP1-67,LSP2-188,PV5-36,LSP3-43,LSP4-41,LSP5-48)

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[Galaxy]

Tejas won't become fully operational before 2013

Tejas won't become fully operational before 2013

NEW DELHI: The largely homegrown Tejas fighter is still to fight its way out of the doldrums. The jet will not become fully-operational anytime before 2013, a full three decades after the LCA (light combat aircraft) project was first sanctioned in 1983.

IAF chief Air Chief Marshal N A K Browne, responding to questions on Monday, remarked the Tejas LCA's operational clearance had been delayed by almost a year, without elaborating any further.

This indicates the actual induction of the first 40 Tejas jets will begin only towards end-2013 at the earliest, and the first two squadrons will be up and running at the Sulur airbase (Tamil Nadu) only by 2015 or so.

As per revised timelines drawn up after several cost and time-overruns, Tejas was to get the initial operational clearance (IOC) in December 2010, which basically signifies the aircraft is fully airworthy.

This was to be followed by an "intermediate clearance stage'' by December 2011. And finally, the fighter was to get the final operational clearance (FOC), when all weapon and other systems are fully-integrated into the platform, by December 2012.

Defence ministry sources on Tuesday admitted there had been slippages in the intermediate clearance stage for the lightweight, multi-role fighter after it got the IOC last January. "It will not be possible before May-June 2012 now, which in turn is likely to delay the FOC beyond December 2012. The LCA prototypes could not fly much over the last four-five months due to some technical reasons as well as monsoons,'' said a source.

DRDO, however, contends Tejas, which has "all the features of a fourth-generation fighter'', will cross the FOC barrier as planned. "Certification is a long-drawn process. It does not mean there are delays. We are very hopeful Tejas will get the FOC in December 2012,'' said a senior DRDO official.

India certainly needs to develop its own advanced weapon systems like fighters, instead of being yoked to foreign imports which make it strategically vulnerable. But the LCA project underlines the fact that a complete rethink is needed on how to run critical indigenous defence projects.

Its overall developmental cost, including the naval variant and trainer as well as the Kaveri engine, for instance, will go up to Rs 17,269 crore by 2018 from the initial Rs 560 crore earmarked for it in 1983. With each Tejas to cost around Rs 200 crore over and above this, India will eventually end up spending well over Rs 25,000 crore on the programme.

Moreover, Tejas is still only around 60% indigenous. The fighter, for instance, is powered by American GE engines, with the indigenous Kaveri engine failing to pass muster for it despite Rs 2,839 crore being spent on it since 1989.

India has inked a $822 million contract for 99 General Electric's F-414 engines, with an option to go for another 49 engines at a later stage, to power the Tejas Mark-II version. While the first 20 Tejas will be powered by GE-404 engines, the next six Mark-II squadrons (16-18 jets in each) will have the new more powerful GE F-414 engines.

 

[agentperry]

for all the tejas supporters. read my earlier posts on tejas IOC in defence industry.

IAF does not need present tejas now. they are killing it publically.

 

[no smoking]

It is not suprise that a new born plane like LCA is having a lot of problems.
Just remember this is the first fighter developed by india scentists themselves. They lack neccessary project knowledge and experience before that.
The only thing india need to do is to keep pouring money into the following project.
I believe after going through all this, the next plane will be a lot smoother
.

 

[ace009]

for all the tejas supporters. read my earlier posts on tejas IOC in defence industry.

IAF does not need present tejas now. they are killing it publically.

You wish ..

IAF will induct the Tejas in due time - naysayers like you notwithstanding.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

LCA is very important for IAF, But what worries me is lack of progress in Radar tech as well as engine..

Astra BVR is still not operational and LCA is using debry, AESA is in making....

The problem lies in the lack of Infrastructure, Internal issues, HAL production fecilities coming short..



Still LCA is far better choice as a light fighter to replace MIG-21s & MIG-27..

 

[asianobserve]

The government is a bureaucracy and will remain a bureaucracy. That's its nature. Slow, inflexible, innovation averse, rigidly heirarchical, and corrupt. It's no surprise therefore that almost all the biggest defense contractors in the World today are private ones. Private firms have to be fast, innovative and smart smart to survive the competition and stay still earn. They are almost always therefore better at developing products and delivering them (their lives depend on it, while government offices can survive despite lousy performance). Of course, private companies can also be corrupt. But hey, all the other adjectives that makes them more desirable over government offices still remain.