ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[OsloInd]

this tejas has soooo many flaws. my talk with IAF officer yesterday said its ok to have 20 squadron but not this useless crap in time of war. send 10 tejas and no guarantee that atleast one will return. pitch them against modern fighters of PAF and PLAAF, they wont make it. planes like f-16 and sukhois add to the capability of pilot but this tejas retards the capability. they are though looking forward for tejas mk2, hoping that it is much better than mk1. but if it wont then they will have marut approach for tejas. hire and retire-fast fast.

Dont worry Tejas will be used only against Jf 17, and its more than a match for that. For other fighter India already have Sukhois, that are far ahead than any thing paf has got

 

[Dovah]

Dont worry Tejas will be used only against Jf 17

How?
Please elaborate.

 

[OsloInd]

How?
Please elaborate.

i am no air force expert.. but i strongly beleive tejas wont be pitched against the f-16s. i feel it will best be used against the jf 17.

 

[Dovah]

i am no air force expert.. but i strongly beleive tejas wont be pitched against the f-16s. i feel it will best be used against the jf 17.

We won't be able to chose our fights, Tejas has to evolve into a plane for a specific role rather than a certain fighter killer.

 

[vram]

this tejas has soooo many flaws. my talk with IAF officer yesterday said its ok to have 20 squadron but not this useless crap in time of war. send 10 tejas and no guarantee that atleast one will return. pitch them against modern fighters of PAF and PLAAF, they wont make it. planes like f-16 and sukhois add to the capability of pilot but this tejas retards the capability. they are though looking forward for tejas mk2, hoping that it is much better than mk1. but if it wont then they will have marut approach for tejas. hire and retire-fast fast.

Don't you think sweeping generalized statements stating that there are so many faults make no sense unless you can point out a bit more effectively where these faults are. I do not claim expertise in the Airforce (also as a disclaimer my close relative works at HAL). But I find your assesment hard to believe as the HAL is currently recieving multiple evaluvation reports from IAF stating that Tejas current performance levels are just as good as the expected. I don't know the nitt gritty of all the detials, but that is what IOC and FOC is all about. Evaluate fine tune and go through the whole process again so that after each subsystem is added the final performance can be as perfect as possible. From what I have heard the team doing the evalautions are as professional as any in the private industry from the HAL side.
I don't think that blankly stating that PAF or PLAAF are going to role over Tajas is correct. At the end of the day a machine can be force multiplier but it all depends on the man behind the machine. IAF can keep shifting the goal posts like radar from MultiMode to AESA just because a new toy has appeared in the international market place. But that doesn't me the Tejas is not a good products. Nobody can manufacture a Mercedes without going through the process of building something like a plain old ambassador. No nation on earth has been capable of leapfrogging technological milestones like that.

 

[blueblood]

Don't you think sweeping generalized statements stating that there are so many faults make no sense unless you can point out a bit more effectively where these faults are. I do not claim expertise in the Airforce (also as a disclaimer my close relative works at HAL). But I find your assesment hard to believe as the HAL is currently recieving multiple evaluvation reports from IAF stating that Tejas current performance levels are just as good as the expected. I don't know the nitt gritty of all the detials, but that is what IOC and FOC is all about. Evaluate fine tune and go through the whole process again so that after each subsystem is added the final performance can be as perfect as possible. From what I have heard the team doing the evalautions are as professional as any in the private industry from the HAL side.
I don't think that blankly stating that PAF or PLAAF are going to role over Tajas is correct. At the end of the day a machine can be force multiplier but it all depends on the man behind the machine. IAF can keep shifting the goal posts like radar from MultiMode to AESA just because a new toy has appeared in the international market place. But that doesn't me the Tejas is not a good products. Nobody can manufacture a Mercedes without going through the process of building something like a plain old ambassador. No nation on earth has been capable of leapfrogging technological milestones like that.

I agree with agentperry on this one. Tejas right now is nowhere near where a modern jet should be. mk2 looks promising but only time will tell. Other countries are producing trainers with the similar capabilities.

Regarding the technological barriers, IAF is not responsible for that. IAF demanded a fully functional multirole aircraft to be inducted in early 2000s. HAL promised it but never delivered and is still not even close.

For a jet which was to be inducted 12-15 years back, MMR was good enough but in the present day scenario AESA is a must. Our enemies do not care whether Tejas is home grown or not. They will field the best technology they have so should we.

 

[agentperry]

Don't you think sweeping generalized statements stating that there are so many faults make no sense unless you can point out a bit more effectively where these faults are. I do not claim expertise in the Airforce (also as a disclaimer my close relative works at HAL). But I find your assesment hard to believe as the HAL is currently recieving multiple evaluvation reports from IAF stating that Tejas current performance levels are just as good as the expected. I don't know the nitt gritty of all the detials, but that is what IOC and FOC is all about. Evaluate fine tune and go through the whole process again so that after each subsystem is added the final performance can be as perfect as possible. From what I have heard the team doing the evalautions are as professional as any in the private industry from the HAL side.
I don't think that blankly stating that PAF or PLAAF are going to role over Tajas is correct. At the end of the day a machine can be force multiplier but it all depends on the man behind the machine. IAF can keep shifting the goal posts like radar from MultiMode to AESA just because a new toy has appeared in the international market place. But that doesn't me the Tejas is not a good products. Nobody can manufacture a Mercedes without going through the process of building something like a plain old ambassador. No nation on earth has been capable of leapfrogging technological milestones like that.

its not my personal assessment at first place and im very sad listening to this thing. its high turning radius, limited structural strength to do difficult aero moves. small angel of attack and engine flaming out in between flight provided you do difficult maneuver. it can only act as a small bomber and for EW role and recon as all involve straight flying. it requires lots of work to improve it. and yes after producing/manufacturing all sort of fighters couldnt they pick up some useful lessons that what should and what should not be there. hal is a producer and not taking its views and consultation is a big mistake both on drdo and govt part.

 

[agentperry]

all those who claims that tejas will be put in fight only against jf-17 or f-7 or any other 3rd gen plane, pls explain how?
if f-16 is attacking Indian air force base and tejas is on cap then will it subside or indulge in action?
if tejas is making some ground attack and f-16 or j-11 apears then will it go away from air space leaving the army hapless?
if tejas is fighting against f-7 and f-16 comes into foray then will awac comes in as referee and issuing yellow card to f-16 for illegal entry?

one needs to be prepared for best. im not talking about radar and all stuff, im talking about the design limitation of tejas.

 

[pankaj nema]

@ agent perry

LCA mk1 is a good plane and it is only getting better and better

Your source is lying and has NO clue

There are Many people who have sources .Other sources have reported that Mig 21 pilots ARE LOVING THIS PLANE

And we still have hundreds of Mig 21s

 

[pankaj nema]

@ agent perry

LCA mk1 is just the starting point Yet it is still better than J F 17

. LCA mk 2 will be a KICK A$$ fighter EVEN better than J 10

There is a SAYING in Military circles

" You need BOTH Spoons and spades . You cannot DIG with a spoon OR EAT with A SPADE "

Dont ever underestimate the role of any supersonic fighter armed with BVRAAMs like LCA ,Mig 21

Su 30 mki , Mig 29 and Mirage 2000 are the BIG BOYS Who will Clear the way , knock out the PAF F 16 ,PAF AWACS

Ground targets will be taken care of by Jagaurs and Mig 27

and LCA , Mig 21 will Do the Mopping up of PAF Mirages and JF 17 and Drones and Helos

 

[bhramos]

@ agent perry

LCA mk1 is a good plane and it is only getting better and better

Your source is lying and has NO clue

There are Many people who have sources .Other sources have reported that Mig 21 pilots ARE LOVING THIS PLANE

And we still have hundreds of Mig 21s

LCA is no match for MiG-21. MiG-21 is Mach 2+ Interceptor, may be MiG is a old Fighter, their are no basic or Modern amities in MiG, but in case of war MiG can have a good role then LCA, so LCA will never be sent to frontline bases, But MiG's will be deployed in Frontline bases...

 

[SpArK]

SO after FOC... Integration of GE414, test runs.. IOC... FOC... then on AMCA ...?

Can i see it in my "life time"???

 

[bhramos]

@ agent perry

LCA mk1 is just the starting point Yet it is still better than J F 17

. LCA mk 2 will be a KICK A$$ fighter EVEN better than J 10

There is a SAYING in Military circles

" You need BOTH Spoons and spades . You cannot DIG with a spoon OR EAT with A SPADE "

Dont ever underestimate the role of any supersonic fighter armed with BVRAAMs like LCA ,Mig 21

Su 30 mki , Mig 29 and Mirage 2000 are the BIG BOYS Who will Clear the way , knock out the PAF F 16 ,PAF AWACS

Ground targets will be taken care of by Jagaurs and Mig 27

and LCA , Mig 21 will Do the Mopping up of PAF Mirages and JF 17 and Drones and Helos

LCA will not get that chance also,, as MiG's will go as escorts for MiG-27 and Jaguars and clean Paf M-3's & JF-17's.........

 

[pankaj nema]

SO after FOC... Integration of GE414, test runs.. IOC... FOC... then on AMCA ...?

Can i see it in my "life time"???

Depends on Your AGE .

Today in IDRW . org there is a news that LCA mk1 will start its YEAR long USER TRIALS at the end of the year and By JAN 2013 FOC will be attained

LSP 7 and LSP 8 are almost ready and will be used for User trials

LCA mk2 will be ready by 2017

AMCA will happen only happen till 2025

 

[black eagle]

LCA is no match for MiG-21. MiG-21 is Mach 2+ Interceptor, may be MiG is a old Fighter, their are no basic or Modern amities in MiG, but in case of war MiG can have a good role then LCA, so LCA will never be sent to frontline bases, But MiG's will be deployed in Frontline bases...

I think you are painting a rather sorry picture. Yes, the LCA is not as good as we want it to be. But it is also not as bad as some people are trying to make it out to be. I do not think it will "mop up" Pakistani MIrages & F-7s & I also do not think that the Mk2 will be better than the J-10 but it is a god enough plane & can be used in combat. Whether the IAF will use it or not is a different issue altogether...

 

[SpArK]

@ agent perry

LCA mk1 is just the starting point Yet it is still better than J F 17

. LCA mk 2 will be a KICK A$$ fighter EVEN better than J 10

There is a SAYING in Military circles

" You need BOTH Spoons and spades . You cannot DIG with a spoon OR EAT with A SPADE "

Dont ever underestimate the role of any supersonic fighter armed with BVRAAMs like LCA ,Mig 21

Su 30 mki , Mig 29 and Mirage 2000 are the BIG BOYS Who will Clear the way , knock out the PAF F 16 ,PAF AWACS

Ground targets will be taken care of by Jagaurs and Mig 27

and LCA , Mig 21 will Do the Mopping up of PAF Mirages and JF 17 and Drones and Helos

They are also modernizing their jet to next level. Hence the pace and changes of ours are not good enough.

I was expecting some major changes in LCA- MK2 , which was unvieled in aero India, like air intake changes and a stealthy nose.

They had ample time for the design and do all the needed between the IOC, weapons trial and final FOC to check the newer design in wind tunnels.

LCA for me s still a big disappointment.Hope it doesnt end up as "indigineous" kaveri, which is dead. ( of
course it was a learning curve. But how about start a project basedon what learned, still "talking" with snecma ??

 

[pankaj nema]

@ spark

It looks as if you have not read the specifications of LCA mk2 on Prasun Sengupta's site Trishul -Trident .com

Kaveri is a separate matter altogether . kaveri is not dead it will be reborn because of a tie up with Snecma
and used for AMCA with a 90 kn thrust

If LCA mk1 would have been as bad as its detractors say ; then Air force would have NEVER invested its
Time ,Money , Human resources in its development along with ADA

ADA and IAF have been working closely together

It is NOT AS IF LCA is BEING THRUST upon IAF

 

[SpArK]

@ spark

It looks as if you have not read the specifications of LCA mk2 on Prasun Sengupta's site Trishul -Trident .com

Mate , even if its specification rich, i dont see it operational anytime soon. I have issues with the design. When it gets opertional some time around, i believe it will be still lagging behind the next upgrades of existing, 4.5 gens..

And whats the update on AESA??

Kaveri is a separate matter altogether . kaveri is not dead it will be reborn because of a tie up with Snecma
and used for AMCA with a 90 kn thrust

Its dead. It will power some naval vessels as a booster to the maximum , if navy is said to do so.

And talks with snecma aint over yet.. still taking since ages..

If LCA mk1 would have been as bad as its detractors say ; then Air force would have NEVER invested its
Time ,Money , Human resources in its development along with ADA

ADA and IAF have been working closely together

It is NOT AS IF LCA is BEING THRUST upon IAF

I still believe IAF has been forced to accept it. They were nt yet satisfied wit performance, time frame and other factors. All they could do was give maximum inputs to control system and layouts.

Well its my opinion and cant be true too..

 

[pankaj nema]

I would request ALL LCA mk1 DETRACTORS to just wait for 2 more years

AND the IAF will be SINGING PAEANS To the LCA

And we the LCA lovers will say " We told you so "

There have also been news reports that a MINI Growler like dedicated EW attack Aircraft is being developed
by DARE and ADA

 

[SpArK]

I would request ALL LCA mk1 DETRACTORS to just wait for 2 more years

AND the IAF will be SINGING PAEANS To the LCA

And we the LCA lovers will say " We told you so "

There have also been news reports that a MINI Growler like dedicated EW attack Aircraft is being developed
by DARE and ADA

In 2 more years even the GE 414 talks wont be over.. also redesigns, integration, test runs, IOC, FOC...damn...