ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[black eagle]

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Darn...You could have asked me why composites or ceramics cant be used...and I would have given you an explaination.

The Engine is actually divided into the fans and the core. Even having SC blades there is still a problem of stress distribution that takes place in every high speed moving object.

Do you make or design Single Crystal blades? Just curious.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

I couldn't exactly understand when above poster says "Pro-LCA Stand" ?? Nobody has doubts over hard work and contribution made by individual scientists. There would be no LCA if it isn't for them. But R&D is one thing and using the machines in war is another thing.


the right term would be Pro-Pilot/ Air Crew. Scientist develops LCA but Pilots go into war with them. if the Fighter pilot is able complete missions successfully without getting injured or losing his own life, Scientist has indeed done the job perfectly.

Its just that expectations and assumptions made about DRDO as an organisation didn't turn out to be as expected as far as LCA timeline is concerned. May be we were bit too confident about R&D capabilities in 1980s and 90s. The endless wait for IAF is always frustrating for them as they need to urgently replace obsolete aircraft.

Either we criticize DRDO for delays or Babus for being corrupt and huge red tape associated with foreign procurements or
Airforce for not cooperating or understanding DRDO and difficulties in development of complex technologies and constantly changing requirements in the view of changing situations, only one thing finally suffers i.e Force modernization resulting in fighting with inferior or obsolete weapons during war, thereby risking lives of soldiers or even face defeat.

we might think Su-30MKI or Eurofighter Typhoon might excel or even overwhelm enemy with their edge. but who knows Tejas might prove far more effective and contribute more effectively during war because situation may demand fighter with features that Tejas has.

no matter how many we operate or how effective are those machines. The only thing that matters how they perform and contribute to Indian Victory during the war.

it was during kargil when operating helicopters became too risky, attack helicopters could not even be operated in that altitudes. Mirage 2000 came to rescue to effectively provide close air support even though it was never meant to provide close air support but only as air superiority fighter.

If you had been to the Air show you would not be saying this! The Tejas was in no way inferior in either doing the loops or pulling high-G turns or high AoAs!!

I fail to understand why people act and criticize as if India has been makeing Aircraft's for 100years and we only got this one wrong! I asked the same question on massive delays on the program to the Tejas scientists and they said, you only read on the news that Tejas is delayed yet again but in reality only we know how hard it was to over come technological denials by the west and designing everything from an single switch to accutatiors. So a lot of things happened behind the scene. When the US imposed sanctions the scientist working in the US on the fly-by-wire system where thrown out of the US and they could not even take a single pin from their lab, they came back in 1999 and made their own FBW with in 5 years and that requires some understanding to appreciate.

We are not over confident over the Tejas but it is not and i repeat it is not less than any fighter in its class. Its a great asset for the Airforce becoz its built in house and costs lesser comparatively and the only thing that will really aid us during war becoz even if the west sanctions and the Russians and French are not able to import in time during war the Tejas can be built in large numbers without any threat of shortage. Thats an virtue not a vice.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

http://www.deagel.com/library/LCA-Tejas-performing-at-Aero-India-in-Bangalore-on-February-12-2011_m02011021400005.aspx


What are these lines under the belly of the aircraft? Looks like its either primer or they have duct taped a lot of censors to the wing to test the load?

 

[black eagle]

 

[chex3009]

 

[chex3009]

Some pics of Naval LCA

 

[chex3009]

Some pics of Naval LCA

Courtesy : Broadsword

 

[black eagle]

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Deleted due to improvements

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Mark-2 with extended nose and twin engines!!

This would be my dream Indian flying machine!!
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.
.
.
.
.

 

[Singh]

^^ this is photoshopped..

 

[Godless-Kafir]

^^ this is photoshopped..

Whats the matter with you? Wasnt that obvious? I did it to show the possibility of how it could look, its an artistic impression.

 

[Rage]

@Rage

What pisses me off is why ADA did not go for a Cropped Delta like Gripen. They start off with a requirement for interceptor which was fine in the beginning. A compound delta would have fit the role of an interceptor as in M-2000. But a cropped delta would have pushed the design envelope even further. The F-16 is proof of that. Was it short sightedness or just a lack of technical know-how. No aircraft after the Mirage-2000 era, except LCA, was planned as a compound delta. Even MKI is a tailed cropped delta.

EDIT: Heck, even JF-17 is a cropped delta.

Probably because it has no rear horizontal-stabilizers / horizontal tail for pitch control (again, because of its wing design).

I get this nasty feeling that if they had to go for a cropped delta design, they would've encountered issues with the wing-loading and positioning of the wings on the fuselage, which would've led to design / aspect ratio / airflow problems, which would've led to further unacceptable delays. So, to avoid that, they stuck with the double-delta and no tailplane. Now I'm wondering, if a chine or ventral fins could've solved that problem.

Canards could've been used as an alternative (to a tailplane), but were not included, I think, for the reasons mentioned above.

Fact is though, that despite having canard-equipped Mirage 4000's available, the French AF still went for the Mirage-2000 (course, I'm discounting other reasons here).

 

[Rage]

Look at this Beauty fly!

 

[nitesh]

http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/whensword-arm-is-worth-it/426073/
When a sword arm is worth it
Ajai Shukla / Bangalore February 22, 2011, 0:49 IST


The spotlight is swinging on to the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA). It has been cleared for induction into the Indian Air Force, construction has begun on two squadrons (40 aircraft) and the IAF is picking 40 per cent of the tab for developing a more powerful Tejas Mark II. Now its designers are hitting out at critics who charge the programme has greatly overshot its budget.

P S Subramanyam, head of the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), which spearheads the Tejas programme, has given Business Standard detailed financial figures to argue the development cost has remained within budget. ADA also notes the Tejas is significantly cheaper than any comparable fighter.

'No overshoot'

Slamming some recent media reports that the Tejas was enormously over budget, Subramanyam reveals just Rs 6,051 crore has been spent so far on the fighter, that performed aerobatics at the Aero India show in Bangalore this month. Another Rs 746 crore (of the sanctioned Rs 3,650 crore) has been spent on the naval Tejas, which will fly from the Indian Navy's future aircraft carriers.

ADA has provided a detailed cost breakdown. The LCA project began in 1983 (the name Tejas only came later), with a preliminary allocation of Rs 560 crore for 'feasibility studies and project definition'. Subramanyam complains that accusations of cost overruns stem from the misperception that Rs 560 crore was the entire budget for developing the Tejas. In fact, this was merely for defining the project and creating the infrastructure needed for designing, building, testing and certifying a fighter.

Only after a decade of infrastructure building did the design work start, when the ministry of defence (MoD) sanctioned Rs 2,188 crore in 1993 (which included the initial Rs 560 crore). This allocation was to fund the building of two 'technology demonstrator' Tejas fighters.

"Within this budget, we flew the Tejas in 2001, and even built two extra Tejas prototypes," says Subramanyam. "And, that was without any adjustment for inflation or foreign exchange appreciation, though the dollar shot up from Rs 26 to Rs 47 during that period. Our forex component of Rs 873 crore should have been adjusted to Rs 1,642 crore."

Buoyed by the successful test flight in 2001, the MoD allocated ADA Rs 3,302 crore in November 2001, for Phase-II of the programme. This was to fund a production line and the building and flight-testing of 8 'limited series production' fighters. Phase-II will run till 2012, when the Tejas obtains final operational clearance (FOC) for induction into the IAF as a frontline fighter.

In 2009, with the Tejas flight-testing running slow, ADA obtained an additional Rs 2,475 crore from the government for Phase-II. Subramanyam argues this is not a cost overrun. "The MoD's allocation of 2001 contained no protection from inflation. If you roll back our annual expenditure to the base year of 2001, we remained within budget," says the ADA chief.

The IAF is now confident that its Tejas Mk-I will obtain FOC in 2012, within the sanctioned Rs 7,965 crore (Rs 2,188 + Rs 3,302 + Rs 2,475) crore. What remains is to integrate a long-range missile; to enable mid-air refuelling; and to enable the Tejas to fly as slow as 200 kmph.

What we got
Subramanyam argues that this money has not just developed the Tejas, but also India's ability to build serious fighters. "Consider the aerospace infrastructure that we have built across the country, in key DRDO laboratories, defence PSUs, private industry, academic institutions, and test facilities like the National Flight Testing Centre (NFTC). This has bridged a technology and infrastructure gap of two-three generations," he says.

WHAT THE MoD WILL PAY
Development Date of sanction Sanctioned cost Spent till Jan 25, '11
1. Air Force
(a) Phase-1 (Tejas prototype) Jun 23, '93 2,188* 2,188
(b) Phase-2 (Tejas Mark I) Nov 20, '01 5,777** 3,859
Sub-total (a & b) 7,965 6,047
(c)Phase-3 (Tejas Mark II) Nov 20, '09 2,432 4
Sub-total (a, b & c) 10,397 6,051
2. Navy
(a) Pre-project design Jan 20, '99 14 14
(b) Phase-1 (Tejas Mark I) Mar 28, '03 1,715*** 732
Sub-total (a & b) 1,729 746
(c) Phase-2 (Tejas Mark 2) Dec 17, '09 1,921 Nil
Total (a, b & c) 3,650 746
Grand Total (1 & 2) 14,047 6,797
* Includes Rs 560 crore sanctioned on Aug 22, 1983
** Rs 3,302 crore + Rs 2,475 crore on Jan 20, 2001, and Nov 20, 2009, respectively
*** Rs 949 crore + Rs 766 crore on Mar 28, 2003, and Dec 17, 2009, respectively
Figures in Rs crore

Meanwhile, the naval Tejas will fly within weeks. Significantly different from the IAF version, the naval Tejas must get airborne within 195 metres (the length of an aircraft carrier deck) and withstand the cruel impact of repeated deck landings, in which it must be slammed down precisely where the deck begins. Of the Rs 1,729 crore allocated for the naval Tejas, ADA has spent Rs 746 crore so far.

Encouraged by the success of Tejas Mk-I, the MoD allocated Rs 2,432 crore in 2009 for making the IAF's fighter even better: developing a Tejas Mk-II, with a newer, beefier, GE-414 engine. Simultaneously, Rs 1,921 crore was sanctioned for the Naval Tejas Mk-II. While the Navy funded 40 per cent of its fighter from the start, the IAF is a new convert, matching the Navy in funding the Tejas Mk-II.

"By 2012, the total development cost for an IAF and a naval Tejas — including a single-seat fighter and a twin-seat trainer variant for each — will be Rs 9,690 crore. Another Rs 4,353 crore will be spent on the Tejas Mark-II, bringing the total cost to Rs 14,047 crore," says Subramanyam.

The Gripen, a comparable if somewhat more advanced fighter, which Sweden developed during this period, cost US $13.5 billion for 204 fighters, assuming complete tax exemption. A similar number of Tejas fighters entering IAF and Navy service would — provided that HAL holds the Tejas manufacturing price at its current estimate of Rs 180 crore per fighter — have cost India US $11.28 billion.

Given that Sweden entered the Gripen programme with a mature aerospace industry (coming off the successful Viggen programme), India will have built the Tejas, as also an entire aerospace design and manufacturing eco-system, for 17 per cent less money than Sweden paid for the Gripen.

 

[black eagle]

Derby For Tejas A Kosher Deal?

The Indian Tejas light combat aircraft programme's decision to arm the platform with Israeli Derby air-to-air missiles has already raised questions, both from rival missile makers (who have an interest, obviously, since the decision means lost potential business) as well as officials in government. To begin with, a question hangs over whether the selection of the Derby was based on a competitive bid process (sources say it wasn't) by the Aeronautical Development Agency. Second, the rather adverse observations that India's national audit watchdog made last year on Rafael's supply of the same missile to the Indian Navy for its Sea Harrier limited upgrade package package. One person I spoke to in the IAF wondered how such a deal could go through when the operational capabilities of the weapon had been specifically called into question.

In the shadowy world of India's weapon acquisitions, defence deals with Israel are particularly secretive (and uniformly government-to-government). And despite the Israeli MoD's efforts during Aero India this time to "open up", involve and brief the press, I hear it turned out to be a thumpingly boring affair, with no questions entertained on specific deals, and just lots of Powerpoint on products. Pity.

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2011/02/derby-for-tejas-kosher-deal.html

 

[Welcome]

Myth and reality in the cost of Tejas, the IAF and Navy's under-development fighter

The spotlight is swinging on to the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA). It has been cleared for induction into the Indian Air Force, construction has begun on two squadrons (40 aircraft) and the IAF is picking 40 per cent of the tab for developing a more powerful Tejas Mark II. Now its designers are hitting out at critics who charge the programme has greatly overshot its budget.
P S Subramanyam, head of the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), which spearheads the Tejas programme, has given Business Standard detailed financial figures to argue the development cost has remained within budget. ADA also notes the Tejas is significantly cheaper than any comparable fighter.

'No overshoot'
Slamming some recent media reports that the Tejas was enormously over budget, Subramanyam reveals just Rs 6,051 crore has been spent so far on the fighter, that performed aerobatics at the Aero India show in Bangalore this month. Another Rs 746 crore (of the sanctioned Rs 3,650 crore) has been spent on the naval Tejas, which will fly from the Indian Navy's future aircraft carriers.

ADA has provided a detailed cost breakdown. The LCA project began in 1983 (the name Tejas only came later), with a preliminary allocation of Rs 560 crore for 'feasibility studies and project definition'. Subramanyam complains that accusations of cost overruns stem from the misperception that Rs 560 crore was the entire budget for developing the Tejas. In fact, this was merely for defining the project and creating the infrastructure needed for designing, building, testing and certifying a fighter.

Only after a decade of infrastructure building did the design work start, when the ministry of defence (MoD) sanctioned Rs 2,188 crore in 1993 (which included the initial Rs 560 crore). This allocation was to fund the building of two 'technology demonstrator' Tejas fighters.

"Within this budget, we flew the Tejas in 2001, and even built two extra Tejas prototypes," says Subramanyam. "And, that was without any adjustment for inflation or foreign exchange appreciation, though the dollar shot up from Rs 26 to Rs 47 during that period. Our forex component of Rs 873 crore should have been adjusted to Rs 1,642 crore."

Buoyed by the successful test flight in 2001, the MoD allocated ADA Rs 3,302 crore in November 2001, for Phase-II of the programme. This was to fund a production line and the building and flight-testing of 8 'limited series production' fighters. Phase-II will run till 2012, when the Tejas obtains final operational clearance (FOC) for induction into the IAF as a frontline fighter.

In 2009, with the Tejas flight-testing running slow, ADA obtained an additional Rs 2,475 crore from the government for Phase-II. Subramanyam argues this is not a cost overrun. "The MoD's allocation of 2001 contained no protection from inflation. If you roll back our annual expenditure to the base year of 2001, we remained within budget," says the ADA chief.

The IAF is now confident that its Tejas Mk-I will obtain FOC in 2012, within the sanctioned Rs 7,965 crore (Rs 2,188 + Rs 3,302 + Rs 2,475) crore. What remains is to integrate a long-range missile; to enable mid-air refuelling; and to enable the Tejas to fly as slow as 200 kmph.

What we got
Subramanyam argues that this money has not just developed the Tejas, but also India's ability to build serious fighters. "Consider the aerospace infrastructure that we have built across the country, in key DRDO laboratories, defence PSUs, private industry, academic institutions, and test facilities like the National Flight Testing Centre (NFTC). This has bridged a technology and infrastructure gap of two-three generations," he says.
Meanwhile, the naval Tejas will fly within weeks. Significantly different from the IAF version, the naval Tejas must get airborne within 195 metres (the length of an aircraft carrier deck) and withstand the cruel impact of repeated deck landings, in which it must be slammed down precisely where the deck begins. Of the Rs 1,729 crore allocated for the naval Tejas, ADA has spent Rs 746 crore so far.

Encouraged by the success of Tejas Mk-I, the MoD allocated Rs 2,432 crore in 2009 for making the IAF's fighter even better: developing a Tejas Mk-II, with a newer, beefier, GE-414 engine. Simultaneously, Rs 1,921 crore was sanctioned for the Naval Tejas Mk-II. While the Navy funded 40 per cent of its fighter from the start, the IAF is a new convert, matching the Navy in funding the Tejas Mk-II.

"By 2012, the total development cost for an IAF and a naval Tejas — including a single-seat fighter and a twin-seat trainer variant for each — will be Rs 9,690 crore. Another Rs 4,353 crore will be spent on the Tejas Mark-II, bringing the total cost to Rs 14,047 crore," says Subramanyam.

The Gripen, a comparable if somewhat more advanced fighter, which Sweden developed during this period, cost US $13.5 billion for 204 fighters, assuming complete tax exemption. A similar number of Tejas fighters entering IAF and Navy service would — provided that HAL holds the Tejas manufacturing price at its current estimate of Rs 180 crore per fighter — have cost India US $11.28 billion.

Given that Sweden entered the Gripen programme with a mature aerospace industry (coming off the successful Viggen programme), India will have built the Tejas, as also an entire aerospace design and manufacturing eco-system, for 17 per cent less money than Sweden paid for the Gripen.

http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/whensword-arm-is-worth-it/426073/

 

[Welcome]

I think that's show immaturity of indian media.

only due to indian media "ARD"and "DRDO has insulted everywhere in the world.

 

[black eagle]

Tejas set to add teeth to IAF

India's indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas' will be inducted into the Indian Air Force within the next few months, scientist Gantayat Gauda said on Sunday.

Gauda, who is from the Centre for Military Airworthiness, Bangaluru, was speaking on Growth of Aeronautics in India at the annual function of Institute of Higher Secondary Education, the Plus-II science college under the Siksha O Anusandhan University here.

"The multi-role, single-seater, tactical aircraft is aimed to replace the ageing MiG-21 aircraft which have been the IAF's mainstay since the 1970s. Tejas has been developed indigenously except the engine which has been procured from General Electric," Gauda said. He added the full operational clearance for the LCA is expected to be given by June 2011.

Gauda also pointed out its advanced version will be ready by 2015. "Scientists at the Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) in Bengaluru are presently working on the indigenous Kaveri engine for the LCA. The first LCA flight with this engine is expected to take off in the next two years," Gouda added.

Gauda also informed the IAF had already placed orders for 40 LCA Tejas, and 83 more aircraft would be manufactured subsequently. "Five LCA Tejas aircraft, to be manufactured under limited series production, has already rolled out. This will be followed by series production to meet the requirement. One of its variants would also be rolled out for the Indian Navy but with a different name," he said.

The Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) is the principal partner in the design and fabrication of LCA and its integration leading to flight testing. The LCA has been designed and developed by a consortium of five aircraft research, design, production and product support organizations pooled by the Bengaluru-based Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) under the DRDO, Gauda mentioned.

He also informed the students about the Light Combat Helicopter (LCH) and the Intermediate Jet Trainer (IJT) that Indian scientists are developing.

"The helicopter, which could be useful in tackling insurgency, was flown on March 31 last but some more flight trials were necessary. The Indian Army had already placed orders for 180 such choppers. The Army (Read Air Force - stupid indian media) had also ordered 125 IJTs, which are twin-seater, trainer aircraft," Gauda said.

Gauda clarified that the technical snags leading to frequent mishaps involving the single-engine MiG-21s have been identified and corrected. Among others, the university dean (post-graduate studies and research), S C Mishra, managing committee member Gopabandhu Kar and R N Choudhury were present on the occasion.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-to-IAF/articleshow/7542966.cms#ixzz1EgHQnOkB